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How should the heart line be read?

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How should the heart line be read?

Post  zeblethai on Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:28 pm

(From the Encyclopedia of Palmistry) "..according to Wu-Hsing teachings, is generally thought to begin from the percussion below the little finger and proceed towards the thumb."
"the Indonesian palmist, Benham, believe the line actually starts from the area of the mount of Jupiter and crosses the palm to end on the percussion below the little finger. Schaumann and Alter report that it begins to form this side of the hand in embryonic development." pg 146
thinking

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  zeblethai on Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:33 pm

"(the heart line) may be regarded as a sort of canal transporting energies from the subconscious sphere. This analogy can be best understood when one grasps how deeply so-called intellectual decisions are rooted in our subconscious mind."pg 137 Gettings

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Sari on Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:30 pm

Hello,
In all my studies I have rarely seen or used the method you described by Benham. Mainly because i.e if the heart line is classed as short it ends under Saturn (usually), and if long ends under Jupiter etc. But Palmistry has so much variation to it that either way could be used and still produce the same result or meaning. Timing on this line also is very basic and no matter which way you look at it, the middle is always approx the same time (age). I still prefer to see it as beginning from below the little finger.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:02 pm

When the heart line first forms, it appears first between the index and middle fingers.

Sometimes you'll notice when the heart line doesn't actually aim upward (after one is born and older), there is still often a deep crease in this area - as the - or as part of the Girdle of Venus.


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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  zeblethai on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:50 pm

Patti said... When the heart line first forms, it appears first between the index and middle fingers.
Do you or someone else have a photo of this? Or a photo of the hand in utero?

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William G Benham is Indonesian?

Post  Ramann on Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:51 pm

Are you referrring to William G.Benham who has written laws of "Scientific Hand Reading"
If its a different Benham I dont know.But I dont think W.G.Benham was an Indonesian.
Elighten please if there is a different Benham by the same name.
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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  pravin kumar on Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:01 pm

Dear Raman, Zeblethai and Sari,

There is only one William G. Benham who wrote that book on Palmistry which Raman has mentioned. Secondly he reads the heart line from Jupitor or between Jupitor and Saturn finger to the other end below the smallest finger. I think many authors take the Line of Mercury from bottom to the top but Cheiro takes it the reverse. Once I had discussions with Ed Campbell about the heart line. He takes it from the percussion side below the pinky finger to the Jupitor Finger. The palm we were referring to had an indication right in the centre and hence whichever we read it the age came out to be the same so I just mentioned that to each his own way of reading provided you get the right answer and the person whose palm you read it confirms your reading.

So that is important. Benham takes the Line of Life or Fate etc. as denoting 70 years, Cheiro takes it 91 or 98 (cannot remember the exact age), Narayan Dutt Shrimali takes it 100. Neither is right nor wrong. Again confirmation from the person, whose palms are read, is most important. I think both Benham and Cheiro state to first predict some past events agewise to get the correct age reading and then proceed further.

Pravin Kumar


.


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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:54 am


Hello Zeblethai,

The contradictive ideas shared in this topic so far + the many CONTRADICTIONS seen in the palmistry literature regarding how to read the heart line, can be perceived as a clear signal that the whole idea of 'timing' the hand lines is a questionable idea.

Second, I observe that nobody in the world has EVER succeeded in providing any acceptable evidence for this idea. All attempts (+ theories described in books) usually focuss on individual cases where certain theories appear to work... however, such attempts have ignored the (many) cases where the theory doesn't work. One should also be aware that if a theory only sometimes works, it is really necessary to gather some statistical evidence to back up a theory... because otherwise there is a very high chance that some positive results can at the end be described as 'just coincidence'.

This also explains why in time more and more professional hand readers (+ authors of hand reading books) have concluded that all theories about how to read time from the hand are likely unreliable.

And on earlier forums (including the form PI-forum) we had quite a few discussions about how to read the heart line.

Yes, the info provided by Patti is true: in the fetal hand the heart line starts developing at the thumb-side of the palm (just like is seen in the head line & life line). However, the truth is that both the heart line and the head typically each start manifesting as four different lines - and after a while the upper two lines usually connect forming the heart line and the lower two lines connect forming the head line (this also explains why both lines quite often manifest as a 'broken line' in the adult hand).


So, the best suggestion that I can give is not rely 'blind' on books that include any models for timing the lines of the hand.

PS. To understand this issue properly, one should also be ware that during the years many (modern) hand readers have concluded that one can not 'predict the future' from the lines of the hand.


thinking One more thought...

Whether the future is predictable at all is another questionable issue, because though some life-issues can be deduced to life pattern sequences... many experiences in life are the result of coincidental circumstances, and some experiences are by principle 'inpredictable' (such as winning the lottery, etc.).

"God doesn't play dice"

flower

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:29 pm

... By the way, even the most experienced people in this field do not know how to deal with these contradictions. For example, Ed Campbell writes in his book 'The Encyclopedia of Palmistry' (p. 146):

"HEART LINE

... One the opposite side, from personal expericience, I have found a chained or frayed heart line under the little finger often betokening an emotional childhood. Perhaps we need to look at these lines in both directions and perhaps they are really dual gauge of age, depending on what we seek to discover. We have seen the fate line suggested as having this possible quality and it may apply to the other lines."


While I highly appreciates Ed's book - I consider it as one of the few most valuable works presented so far in the fields of hand reading - still, from my point of vie Ed is trying to rationalize here the 'contradications' without taking into consideration that these 'contradictions' could very well be point to the most likely possibility: hand lines might not reflect any life events/experiences at all.

(The many variations in the hand lines can very well 'suggest' a lot of things, but the inconsistency indicates that any tendency can still very well be the result of ... simple coincidence.)

I hope this substantiates my former post at least a little bit.

Smile

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:14 pm

zeblethai wrote:
Patti said... When the heart line first forms, it appears first between the index and middle fingers.
Do you or someone else have a photo of this? Or a photo of the hand in utero?

Hi Zeblethai!
I overlooked your post until now!!

Here is a sketch showing the beginning of the DTC (Distal Transverse Crease) at about 9 weeks. (see upper right hand)


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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:35 pm


Thanks Patti, nice picture! Thumbs up!

Additionally, I have a detailed report available about how the hand lines develop:
http://www.handresearch.com/diagnostics/palmar-creases-hand-lines-embryology.htm



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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:40 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Thanks Patti, nice picture! Thumbs up!

Additionally, I have a detailed report available about how the hand lines develop:
http://www.handresearch.com/diagnostics/palmar-creases-hand-lines-embryology.htm



The concept that the creases come in and meet halfway was in one of my palmistry books, don't recall which, but it was at least 20 plus years ago I had read it. For quite some time I would ask people with broken lines and overlapping major creases (particularly the life line) if they knew anything about their mother's pregnancy with them. Although it's anecdotal and I have no statistics, it was interesting hearing many stories about their moms having to spend half their pregnancy ordered to bed rest and others who became very sick at one part of the term or the other. Could be just coincidental, but it was interesting feedback.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Parender on Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:38 pm

The Heart Line always originates beneath the fourth or Little finger or the pinkie. Some earlier palmists believed that it ends at this point; however, through the study of thousands of hands I have found that such is not the case. As the Heart Line governs the emotion, it is logical to believe that it should originate in the house of emotion, near the Marriage or Affection Line that occupies that space between the base of the little finger and the Heart Line. Secondly, the major lines are usually found deeper at the starting point and become lighter as they proceeds and Heart Line is found so.

These three lines i.e. Heart Line, Head Line and Life Line seldom change during the life tenure of a subject especially at the staring points, because at that tender age a person cannot be so strong willed to altogether change the nature’s plan, but, from the time the person becomes mature enough to do so. That is why those changes are found in the Heart Line at the termination or at the middle of the line. I have found it innumerable times absolutely correct.

Parender Sethi
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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:54 pm


Hello Parender,

Thank you for sharing your thought.
I observe that so far you have made only made some claims, without describing how you made your observations regarding that claim. Can you please share more specific details about the nature of your observations?

Second, can you present an explanation for the fact that many very experienced hand readers (to mention a few: William G. Benham [USA], and Yaschpaule [Indonesia], Ghanshyam Singh Birla (India/Canada) & Edo Sprong [The Netherlands] have refered to Benham's work and confirmed Benham's observation) have adopted the idea that the heart line ends under the little finger... indirectly supported by the scientific evidence which points out that in the fetal hand the heart line starts developing at the thumb side of the hand.


PS. You e.g. used the 'depth' of the heart line (shallower at the thumb side of the palm) as an argument; you wrote:

"Secondly, the major lines are usually found deeper at the starting point and become lighter as they proceeds and Heart Line is found so."

But I think this observation can not be used as an argument regarding how to decide where the heart line ends or begins, because for example... at the 'dissociated head line' we can always see that the line becomes shallower at both termination points. So, your observation relates only directly to the typical manifestion of far most lines - which indicates that your observation might not be suitable at all in order to judge where the heart line ends or begins...!!!


Thanks!

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Sari on Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:35 pm

Hi,
I tend not to use the heart line as a timing guide because of the confusion with where it actually begins. But another thing to think about is the drooping and rising lines - if these lines drooped or rose in the other direction, then it would appear that the line starts (or runs) the other way, but when you see these branches they do appear to grow from the percussion edge. I have no memory of seeing these drooping lines from the heart line go the other way?

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:58 pm

Sari wrote:... But another thing to think about is the drooping and rising lines - if these lines drooped or rose in the other direction, then it would appear that the line starts (or runs) the other way, but when you see these branches they do appear to grow from the percussion edge. I have no memory of seeing these drooping lines from the heart line go the other way?

Hi Sari,

Thanks for introducing the aspect of 'drooping and rising lines' in this topic, another interesting aspect to be considered!

But I observe that the direction of those lines typically varies among the various aspects of heart line:

- below the pinky finger these lines are typically directed towards the ulnar side of the palm(percussion side): some pointed upwards & some pointed downwards;
- below the ring finger + the first half below the middle finger these lines are typically directed towards the radial side of the palm (thumb side): usually pointed downwards;
- and below the second half of the middle finger + below the index finger these lines are typically directed towards the radial side of the palm: often pointed downwards, but some upward pointed lines may occure as well.

So, my thought is... because the direction of these lines varies among the different parts of the heartline I think we can not use this aspect in order to determine the direction of the heart line.

Sari, what is your thought regarding my observation?


ACCESSORY EXAMPLE: All these tendencies are for example seen in the hands of Albert Einstein (see the pictures below):
http://www.handresearch.com/news/handprints-the-hands-of-albert-einstein.htm



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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:48 pm



Einstein's hands represent, in my opinion, the example where the initially developing DTC becomes either the radial side of a Girdle of Venus or as in his left hand it becomes the the Fate/Career line.

In a reading I would view his work and productivity as where his love and passion also lie. It would be the area that gave him the most physical, mental and emotional pleasure.

The straighter heart line would represent a more intellectual interaction with people, in my view.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Sari on Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:36 am

Thanks Martijn, I see what you mean, I have this feathered effect on the (end/ or start) of my heart line (percussion edge), that's quite common. Its strange how the drooping lines most often change direction as they move up the line appearing to grow like tree would, so maybe the heart line in fact starts at both ends?

I personally don't think it even matters to be honest, we usually look at the quality of the line etc, and not use it as a guide to expected events and when and where the line began.

If it's under Saturn for instance, it's under Saturn, it doesn't matter whether it began there or ended there, the meaning of the line remains the same, (in my opinion). sunny

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:14 am

Sari wrote:Thanks Martijn, I see what you mean, I have this feathered effect on the (end/ or start) of my heart line (percussion edge), that's quite common. Its strange how the drooping lines most often change direction as they move up the line appearing to grow like tree would, so maybe the heart line in fact starts at both ends?

I personally don't think it even matters to be honest, we usually look at the quality of the line etc, and not use it as a guide to expected events and when and where the line began.

If it's under Saturn for instance, it's under Saturn, it doesn't matter whether it began there or ended there, the meaning of the line remains the same, (in my opinion). sunny

Hi Sari,
I agree with you mostly. I also think it's important to have the knowledge of where it typically initiates. When it doesn't initiate in the most common locations, to me (developmentally speaking), is an indication theres a reason why and I want to find that reason.


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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Thu Sep 15, 2011 2:33 am

If the Korean's report is adopted as a standard, the most common "starting and termination points" are documented.



Interestingly here they do not point out which end is which Wink (although I'm thinking it's implied as being the single dot)


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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Parender on Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:55 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Hello Parender,

Thank you for sharing your thought.
I observe that so far you have made only made some claims, without describing how you made your observations regarding that claim. Can you please share more specific details about the nature of your observations?

Second, can you present an explanation for the fact that many very experienced hand readers (to mention a few: William G. Benham [USA], and Yaschpaule [Indonesia], Ghanshyam Singh Birla (India/Canada) & Edo Sprong [The Netherlands] have refered to Benham's work and confirmed Benham's observation) have adopted the idea that the heart line ends under the little finger... indirectly supported by the scientific evidence which points out that in the fetal hand the heart line starts developing at the thumb side of the hand.


PS. You e.g. used the 'depth' of the heart line (shallower at the thumb side of the palm) as an argument; you wrote:

"Secondly, the major lines are usually found deeper at the starting point and become lighter as they proceeds and Heart Line is found so."

But I think this observation can not be used as an argument regarding how to decide where the heart line ends or begins, because for example... at the 'dissociated head line' we can always see that the line becomes shallower at both termination points. So, your observation relates only directly to the typical manifestion of far most lines - which indicates that your observation might not be suitable at all in order to judge where the heart line ends or begins...!!!


Thanks!

Hi Martijn,

Thanks for your response.

I think the heart line shows the true character that has been formed by heredity or by the person himself by years of his habit under the influence of environment in matters of love, libido, or attraction for the members of the opposite sex. These sexual desires are very strong when we are young, so this line is deep at the starting/commencing place under the pinkie. And many defects are found here at the early part of the heart line too.

The so called ‘current’ enters our palm from index finger or other fingers and passes out from these channels again; as we inhale and exhale from same wind pipe or nose.
My thinking line goes like this that the ‘energy’ or the life ‘current' travels , gets influenced by thinking (headline), direction (fate line) and having travelled from baser world too, first passes through Heart Line; to ultimately pass out at the end through fingers declaring what the person is doing with the ‘current’.

Thus, it passes from under the little finger first which is the ‘messenger of love’, then comes the ‘talent’ or ‘capabilities’ of Sun finger area then comes ‘money issues’ of Saturn and lastly comes to the ‘pride’ or ‘power’ area.

In fact, the lines are the most complicated system of the palm of the hand in structure which pass through and interconnect the other areas on the palm. No sign or line is absolute in itself. So we should learn to establish combinations.

You have mentioned that this cannot be the fact that lines are deeper at the starting point but we can accept it ‘by the law of average’ it happens so.

I have found that ‘bubble’ at the early years of Heart Line or other defects (around twenty years of age or so) suggests infatuation mistaken as love due to immaturity of the person. This shows ‘love at first sight’. So, small downward or upward branches show ‘short lived’ romances here, in early period of the heart line. And the Changing Lines as Barometers of your Progress or Deterioration.

As the persons believe that their love was wrongly placed, the intelligent persons keep them away from the situations and save themselves from the disaster. So many defects are found at the first one third part of the Heart Line i.e. under the pinkie or under the between the both the fingers, showing early young age of persons. I have found it correct many a times.

You may be right but I am sharing my profound rich experiences in the predictive palmistry.
Parender Sethi


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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:28 pm


Hello Parender,

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts & opinions.
But I observe that in your comment did not really consider the implications of the 'contradictive elements' that I have summarized.

You mentioned:

You have mentioned that this cannot be the fact that lines are deeper at the starting point but we can accept it ‘by the law of average’ it happens so.

Sorry Parender, these typical 'deeper' parts of the life line & heart line appear to relate directly to the fact that those line parts relate to the fact that they start at the side of the palm. A likewise effect can be observed in the so-called 'hockey-stick crease', and sometimes also with the presence of a Sydney line.

But these 'wide' elements do not provide any direct clue that those elements can be used as a clue related to the issue of 'timing the hand lines'.


Also, you mentioned the issue of sexual development as an argument:

These sexual desires are very strong when we are young, so this line is deep at the starting/commencing place under the pinkie.

Sorry Parender, I think you are ignoring here a very basic truth: the sexual development usually becomes more manifest during puberty: which typically manifests between the age 10 and 20.

However, the most wide part of the heart line manifests 'on average' typically at the first part of the heart line. So, I don't see how the sexual development can be recognized to manifest directly in the first part of the heart line (starting at the ulnar side of the palm).


I hope my comments & observations make sense.
Anyway, thank you for leaving open the possibility that I 'may be right' ... Thanks!

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:23 pm

Parender wrote:

I think the heart line shows the true character that has been formed by heredity or by the person himself by years of his habit under the influence of environment in matters of love, libido, or attraction for the members of the opposite sex. These sexual desires are very strong when we are young, so this line is deep at the starting/commencing place under the pinkie. And many defects are found here at the early part of the heart line too.


From my experience and studies, I think the heart line represents far more than our sexuality and desires.

At the cellular level all input moves through our nervous system through a filter of our individual emotions and emotional reactions based on experiences and primal instincts.

Martijn, although I agree that sexual awareness becomes more prominent at puberty - it's also a fact that toddlers are quite curious beings, too. They do not have the sexual awareness or attraction to the opposite sex but they are certainly aware of their bodies and exploring playmates bodies, too. Then when they get a little older you have to keep an eye out for when they suddenly decide to play 'doctor'.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Parender on Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:39 pm

Hello Martujn,

I AM NOT IGNORING TRUTH AT ALL. I KNOW ALL THAT.
HERE FOR ‘YOUNG’ I MEAN THE AGE AFTER THE PUBERTY. I DON’T MEAN KIDS WHO HAVE NOT REACHED THE AGE OF PUBERTY.

To make it more simplified, I would like to say that if we divide the Heart Line in four equal parts beneath all the four fingers, starting from under the pinkie then that first part would denote first 21-22 years of the subject. Accordingly, under the ring finger the date comes from 21-22 to 42-43 years of age of the subject.

Therefore I wrote: “I have found that ‘bubble’ at the early years of Heart Line or other defects (around twenty years of age or so) suggest infatuation mistaken as love due to immaturity of a person. This shows ‘love at first sight’. So, small downward or upward branches show ‘short lived’ romances here, in early period of the heart line”.
A very simple thing is being complicated unnecessarily.

Let the researchers do what they do. I believe what I see and experience. I am satisfied with my readings and my clients too throughout the world.

@ Patti. Agreed, that heart line represents far more than our sexuality and desires.
Heart Line has to deal mainly with the emotions i.e. sex, sympathy, sentiment, affection, spirituality, friendship, generosity, faithfulness, ambitions, attitude towards sex, and many more; along with this all it often tells a tale concerning the organ heart proper.
Parender Sethi

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:23 pm

Parender wrote:Hello Martujn,

I AM NOT IGNORING TRUTH AT ALL. I KNOW ALL THAT.
HERE FOR ‘YOUNG’ I MEAN THE AGE AFTER THE PUBERTY. I DON’T MEAN KIDS WHO HAVE NOT REACHED THE AGE OF PUBERTY.

...

Hi Parender,

Okay, thanks for specifying that aspect in your former comment.

But still, we are usually confronted with a 'wider' heart line in the FULL ZONE below the pinky finger, and puberty can only relate to the SECOND PART OF THIS ZONE.

Again, I observe that therefore it is very likely that this wider zone of the heart line directly relates to the fact that this zone of the heart line is positioned below the pinky finger at the outer edge the palm - just like we can see in the zone of the life line below the index finger!


PLEASE NOTICE (I repeat): a likewise phenomenon is seen in the 'hockey-stick crease' and sometimes in the Sydney line as well - which is explained by the fact that both of these lines typically end at in respective: the upper side of the palm (hockey-stick crease) and the ulnar side of the palm (Sydney line).

And therefore - based on these anatomic considerations - I don't see any unique aspect in the heart line that could point out towards a link with puberty.


Also, beyond these anatomical considerations... I would like to hear your thought regarding the fact that quite a few experienced hand readers around the world (see my former post where I have listed a short list of respectable names) have decided that the 'traditional approach' of timing the heart line doesn't work at all, and the fact that they perceived the reversed approach as more fruitfull.

Can you please also share a thought regarding the 'alternative approach'?


By the way, there are even more approaches for timing the heart line available. Many hand readers have developed their own model to work with, but nobody has EVER presented any evidence for their model.

Plus there is also the fact that many other (experienced) hand readers - including: myself, Lynn Seal, Sue Compton - have concluded that regarding the heart line none of the timing models for the heart line appear to work.

And assuming that you are aware that others are using other models than yours, the fact that so many people claim to have succesfully applied various models... doesn't this worry you at all???


Parender, I think the field of hand reading can not really develop as a science if hand readers continue to work with odels that 'appear' to work (in their perception)... without succeeding in the ability to develop ideas that are specific, fundamental (= rectly relate to the anatomy of the hand), and supported by empirical evidence.

Because from my point of view, any theory without empirical evidence... can easily be described as 'unfounded' - and therefore likely: not reliable.

I realize that my thoughts are exploring only, but I hope my ideas & anatomic observations make sense.

wave

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

Martijn (admin)
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Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

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