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How should the heart line be read?

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  jeanette on Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:58 pm

I did not know that the heart line starts between the first two fingers and I would love to know the reason why, when it does not start there. Patti says this too. I wish someone could come up with that answer.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:50 pm

jeanette wrote:I did not know that the heart line starts between the first two fingers and I would love to know the reason why, when it does not start there. Patti says this too. I wish someone could come up with that answer.

The answer to why could be related to the structure of each individual hand. Other features and their development would be considered and combined. One thought could relate to the degree of movement between the thumb and index finger. This is earliest conscious hand movement....grasping. If this is lacking or weak, there might be a different formation of creases. Perhaps the 4 fingers were bending together causing what is called a 'four finger crease' or simian.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:01 pm

Patti wrote:
jeanette wrote:I did not know that the heart line starts between the first two fingers and I would love to know the reason why, when it does not start there. Patti says this too. I wish someone could come up with that answer.

The answer to why could be related to the structure of each individual hand. Other features and their development would be considered and combined. One thought could relate to the degree of movement between the thumb and index finger. This is earliest conscious hand movement....grasping. If this is lacking or weak, there might be a different formation of creases. Perhaps the 4 fingers were bending together causing what is called a 'four finger crease' or simian.

Yes Patti, I think you described the most likely answer.

One should try to approach the hand as a 'system' where the development of the heart line is at least partly a result of the anatomical characteristics of the early hand development (and likely also partly a result of genetics).


PS. Jeanette, I would have prefered to see you writing: "starts developing" where you wrote: "I did not know that the heart line starts between the first two fingers ..."

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  jeanette on Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:11 pm

Right Sorry Martijin,
Should have said starts developing. I thought my meaning would have been understood. Will pay more attention to detail in the future.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:01 pm

jeanette wrote:Right Sorry Martijin,
Should have said starts developing. I thought my meaning would have been understood. Will pay more attention to detail in the future.

Thanks!

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Parender on Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:58 am



In Hindu Palmistry it is called ‘Ayu Rekha’ - as life line -where in Western Palmistry, this line has been called heart line, as heart is the most important organ which pumps blood through the body and keeps a person alive. In both the cases the line is very important. The ‘Ayu Rekha’ was taken for granted that it starts from under the Mercury finger, so the heart line should be.

As some eminent Palmists such as William G. Benham, Henry Frith, Comte De Saint German, Cheerio and Noel Joaquin, the heart line starts from the mount of Jupiter or near about, and goes towards the mount of Mercury ( to justify the ‘current’ or ‘energy’ theory).
Now, some people give references of researchers’ report about anatomic observations to support their hypothesis.

However, according to others like Katharine St. Hill, E. Rene and Myrah Lawrence, the heart line start from the mount of Mercury (house of emotions) and runs towards the mount of Saturn or Jupiter. Myrah Lawrence has very categorically stated in her book Hand Analysis that the heart line always originates under the Mercury finger although some palmists of the old school claim that it ends at this point. Through the stuffy of thousands of palms she has found that the version of the palmists of the old school that the heart line starts from the mount of Jupiter or at a place near it is not correct. According to her, since the heart line mainly governs the emotions, it is logical to conclude or believe that it originates from the house of emotions, the mount of Mercury.


Earlier I mentioned that these three lines i.e. Heart Line, Head Line and Life Line seldom change during the life tenure of a subject especially at the staring points, because at that tender age a person cannot be so strong willed to altogether change the nature’s plan, but, from the time the person becomes mature enough to do so. That is why those changes are found in the Heart Line at the termination or at the middle of the line. I have found it innumerable times absolutely correct.

As I have been able to make out from numerous palms, and the readers may also have observed, the heart line is thick at the percussion below the mount of Mercury and gradually goes on thinning at it proceeds onwards. Normally at the beginning, the lines are thick, and as they proceed onwards, their thickness gets reduced. On that basis it can be assumed that the heart line originates under the Mercury finger.

So, there would remain a divergence of opinion about the starting point of this line, as well as its ending point.
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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Sep 17, 2011 2:01 pm

Parender wrote:

In Hindu Palmistry it is called ‘Ayu Rekha’ - as life line -where in Western Palmistry, this line has been called heart line, as heart is the most important organ which pumps blood through the body and keeps a person alive. In both the cases the line is very important. The ‘Ayu Rekha’ was taken for granted that it starts from under the Mercury finger, so the heart line should be.

...

As I have been able to make out from numerous palms, and the readers may also have observed, the heart line is thick at the percussion below the mount of Mercury and gradually goes on thinning at it proceeds onwards. Normally at the beginning, the lines are thick, and as they proceed onwards, their thickness gets reduced. On that basis it can be assumed that the heart line originates under the Mercury finger.

... Dear Parender, your opinion appears to be based on just one argument; but for multiple reasons your conclusion is 'unbalanced':

1 - First of all, your major argument may not be true at all, because not ALL LINES start thick and end narrow. again, your observation typically only applies to most lines which end at the side of the palm: sometimes we can even see this phenomenon at the END of a Sydney line - of which nearly all palmists agree that is starts at the thumb side of the palm! And instead, all other lines start as narrow lines AND they end as narrow lines.

2 - Also, so far you did not share any argument why we can safely ignore the fact that from an anatomical point of view the heart line starts developing at the thumb side of the palm.

3 - And as a third argument I observe that you also haven't explained the situation why in the past so many other palmists (thanks for adding Henry Firth & Compte St.Germain to the list) were able to find (over and over again) confirmation for the theory that the heart line starts at the thumb side of the hand.


Parender, you have multiple times refered to your own experience over the years regarding tousands of hands. I observe that so far you have basically presented only one argument (regarding the 'thick' shape of the heart line below the pink), but you haven't shared any additional specified observation which could provide us an insight in how you were able to find confirmation for the traditional theory regarding how to 'time' the heart line.


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Manfred on Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:20 pm

Dear Martijn,

as we know, we talked about the subject several loooong times in the past. I like to add only something about your following statement:

"3 - And as a third argument I observe that you also haven't explained the situation why in the past so many other palmists (thanks for adding Henry Firth & Compete St.Germain to the list) were able to find (over and over again) confirmation for the theory that the heart line starts at the thumb side of the hand."

In the past I've looked for the "start" in all the old books (Cocles, Rothmann, Saunders, Belot...) before Cheiro and found, if they tell anything about the chronologically reading of lines, they begin at the percussion. In the moment I can't remember that I found anyone of the elder palmistmen before him who was reading it in reverse like the respected Cheiro.

My impression is that Cheiro was the first who wrote that the heart line starts on the Jupiter side and I don't believe that he really used it....or he came to wrong conclusions by using this. As we know a lot of palmists after him copied his books in any kind.

I think to ask for the beginning does make only sense if someone is reading chronologically and is using a time scale, which the most wellknown, serious hand readers in the West officially Smile deny today.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:53 pm

Manfred wrote:...

In the past I've looked for the "start" in all the old books (Cocles, Rothmann, Saunders, Belot...) before Cheiro and found, if they tell anything about the chronologically reading of lines, they begin at the percussion. In the moment I can't remember that I found anyone of the elder palmistmen before him who was reading it in reverse like the respected Cheiro.

My impression is that Cheiro was the first who wrote that the heart line starts on the Jupiter side and I don't believe that he really used it....or he came to wrong conclusions by using this. As we know a lot of palmists after him copied his books in any kind.

I think to ask for the beginning does make only sense if someone is reading chronologically and is using a time scale, which the most wellknown, serious hand readers in the West officially Smile deny today.

Regards
Manfred

Hi Manfred,

Thanks for your specified contributions! Thumbs up!

Yes, it is interesting to notice that the 'reversed' approach became suddenly adopted by quite a few of the most well-known hand readers at the end of the 19th century + begin of the 20th century.

And yes, the issue only matters for those who 'believe' that it is possible anyhow to time events from the hand lines. And many hand readers today have come to the conclusion that this is not possible at all with far most of the hand lines (and some of them believe that it is not possible at all with any of the lines).


Finally, yes indeed... Cheiro did not use a time-scale for the heart line (he applied his system of 7 only to the life line and fate line ).

However, Benham has presented a time-scale in his book - one could describe it as a system of 6 until age 36 and then gearing up with large steps. And some other authors have presented other time-systems for 'timing' the heart line starting below the index finger.


thinking So, I think for our discussion it is not really important that Cheiro did not apply a time system on the heart line. Because basically, I think it is quite obvious that many authors found some kind of reason to 'create' their own system - but this can only be the result of because they all felt that the preceiding systems did not work very well, etc.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Manfred on Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:31 pm

Dear Martijn,
thank you so much for your contribution. It gave me the impuls to look in one of my first palmistry books I studied in 1988 and 89. Some years before I've done some basic taining courses in more traditional German chirology and met a Dutch girl from Amsterdam who recommended me the Benham book.

I remember two things I found there and in Cheiro's "Language..." very curious: The formation of some heart lines I never saw before and Cheiro's scales for I thought this system doesn't really works because it is impossible to really know where the midpoint in the Venus mount should be.

I did forget that Benham used a system of 6 and that Cheiro only draw a time scale for the Life and Saturn line. - That is fascinating and makes absolutely sense for me. He didn't find a working scale there, because he read the primary chronology in the wrong direction! Even M. Robinson only wrote about a time scale on the life line.
Thank you to mention it, because it was completely out of my mind and this is historically really important!

I would like to add to your last sentence this:
I think it is quite obvious that many authors found some kind of reason to 'create' their own system - but this can only be the result of because they all felt that the today usually known preceiding systems did not work very well, etc.

Regards
Manfred

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:04 am

Parender wrote:


As some eminent Palmists such as William G. Benham, Henry Frith, Comte De Saint German, Cheerio and Noel Joaquin, the heart line starts from the mount of Jupiter or near about, and goes towards the mount of Mercury ( to justify the ‘current’ or ‘energy’ theory).
Now, some people give references of researchers’ report about anatomic observations to support their hypothesis.

However, according to others like Katharine St. Hill, E. Rene and Myrah Lawrence, the heart line start from the mount of Mercury (house of emotions) and runs towards the mount of Saturn or Jupiter. Myrah Lawrence has very categorically stated in her book Hand Analysis that the heart line always originates under the Mercury finger although some palmists of the old school claim that it ends at this point. Through the stuffy of thousands of palms she has found that the version of the palmists of the old school that the heart line starts from the mount of Jupiter or at a place near it is not correct. According to her, since the heart line mainly governs the emotions, it is logical to conclude or believe that it originates from the house of emotions, the mount of Mercury.

Hi Parender,
Right here you show the contradiction yourself. Two completely different schools of thought each insisting that their wealth of knowledge and experience show that they are the ones who are correct.

Yet, the various definitions and meanings given for the time periods are very general and even as you describe in your own words common experiences that can apply to almost everyone as they pass through those age periods.

So it doesn't matter if you were pointing at their wrist, their fingernails or either end of the heart line and said to them at some time period in their early youth they had an infatuation and was disappointed, the feedback would in the majority of cases be affirmative.

I do not think the heart line can be timed from either end. Instead I compare it to the lower portion of the face, especially tension in the mouth and jaw. Under the little finger is back of neck and back teeth as I read it.

Here is what Andrew Fitzherbert says about Myrah Lawrence's book:

"This books summarizes their findings. ..... There are claims for new discoveries about family lines, career lines, etc. but none stands up to investigation. This book is original but not particularly valuable."

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Parender on Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:28 am

Patti wrote:
Parender wrote:


As some eminent Palmists such as William G. Benham, Henry Frith, Comte De Saint German, Cheerio and Noel Joaquin, the heart line starts from the mount of Jupiter or near about, and goes towards the mount of Mercury ( to justify the ‘current’ or ‘energy’ theory).
Now, some people give references of researchers’ report about anatomic observations to support their hypothesis.

However, according to others like Katharine St. Hill, E. Rene and Myrah Lawrence, the heart line start from the mount of Mercury (house of emotions) and runs towards the mount of Saturn or Jupiter. Myrah Lawrence has very categorically stated in her book Hand Analysis that the heart line always originates under the Mercury finger although some palmists of the old school claim that it ends at this point. Through the stuffy of thousands of palms she has found that the version of the palmists of the old school that the heart line starts from the mount of Jupiter or at a place near it is not correct. According to her, since the heart line mainly governs the emotions, it is logical to conclude or believe that it originates from the house of emotions, the mount of Mercury.

Hi Parender,
Right here you show the contradiction yourself. Two completely different schools of thought each insisting that their wealth of knowledge and experience show that they are the ones who are correct.

Yet, the various definitions and meanings given for the time periods are very general and even as you describe in your own words common experiences that can apply to almost everyone as they pass through those age periods.

So it doesn't matter if you were pointing at their wrist, their fingernails or either end of the heart line and said to them at some time period in their early youth they had an infatuation and was disappointed, the feedback would in the majority of cases be affirmative.

I do not think the heart line can be timed from either end. Instead I compare it to the lower portion of the face, especially tension in the mouth and jaw. Under the little finger is back of neck and back teeth as I read it.

Here is what Andrew Fitzherbert says about Myrah Lawrence's book:

"This books summarizes their findings. ..... There are claims for new discoveries about family lines, career lines, etc. but none stands up to investigation. This book is original but not particularly valuable."


Hi Patti,

You are welcome!

But, nay I did never show contradiction in my statements myself. I always go with Myrah Lawrence, therefore I wrote "So, there would remain a divergence of opinion about the starting point of this line, as well as its ending point." That is all.

Parender Sethi


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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:09 pm

Parender wrote:
Patti wrote:
Parender wrote:


As some eminent Palmists such as William G. Benham, Henry Frith, Comte De Saint German, Cheerio and Noel Joaquin, the heart line starts from the mount of Jupiter or near about, and goes towards the mount of Mercury ( to justify the ‘current’ or ‘energy’ theory).
Now, some people give references of researchers’ report about anatomic observations to support their hypothesis.

However, according to others like Katharine St. Hill, E. Rene and Myrah Lawrence, the heart line start from the mount of Mercury (house of emotions) and runs towards the mount of Saturn or Jupiter. Myrah Lawrence has very categorically stated in her book Hand Analysis that the heart line always originates under the Mercury finger although some palmists of the old school claim that it ends at this point. Through the stuffy of thousands of palms she has found that the version of the palmists of the old school that the heart line starts from the mount of Jupiter or at a place near it is not correct. According to her, since the heart line mainly governs the emotions, it is logical to conclude or believe that it originates from the house of emotions, the mount of Mercury.

Hi Parender,
Right here you show the contradiction yourself. Two completely different schools of thought each insisting that their wealth of knowledge and experience show that they are the ones who are correct.

Yet, the various definitions and meanings given for the time periods are very general and even as you describe in your own words common experiences that can apply to almost everyone as they pass through those age periods.

So it doesn't matter if you were pointing at their wrist, their fingernails or either end of the heart line and said to them at some time period in their early youth they had an infatuation and was disappointed, the feedback would in the majority of cases be affirmative.

I do not think the heart line can be timed from either end. Instead I compare it to the lower portion of the face, especially tension in the mouth and jaw. Under the little finger is back of neck and back teeth as I read it.

Here is what Andrew Fitzherbert says about Myrah Lawrence's book:

"This books summarizes their findings. ..... There are claims for new discoveries about family lines, career lines, etc. but none stands up to investigation. This book is original but not particularly valuable."


Hi Patti,

You are welcome!

But, nay I did never show contradiction in my statements myself. I always go with Myrah Lawrence, therefore I wrote "So, there would remain a divergence of opinion about the starting point of this line, as well as its ending point." That is all.

Parender Sethi


I think you have misread my post Parender. Your first paragraph I quoted showed a group of palmist with one view and the second paragraph showed the opposite view. I didn't say you contradicted yourself.

Also, Andrew Fitzherbert, which I quoted, says Myrah Lawrence's work does not test positively.

Perhaps those that believe they can accurately time the heart line show a few examples. Perhaps we can create a small test of a group of participants with important events in their lives at particular times points and see if just how many can get it right.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:17 pm

Patti wrote:...

Perhaps those that believe they can accurately time the heart line show a few examples. Perhaps we can create a small test of a group of participants with important events in their lives at particular times points and see if just how many can get it right.

Thumbs up! Patti, I like your proposal.

(Though, despite that your proposal may look quite simple, I observe that the situation in the field of hand reading is sort of that far most 'experts' has never even tried to presented collect evidence that goes beyond an analysis of just one pair of hands. So I would not be surprized if nobody responds... beyond sharing their opinion about timing models)

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:38 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:...

Perhaps those that believe they can accurately time the heart line show a few examples. Perhaps we can create a small test of a group of participants with important events in their lives at particular times points and see if just how many can get it right.

Thumbs up! Patti, I like your proposal.

(Though, despite that your proposal may look quite simple, I observe that the situation in the field of hand reading is sort of that far most 'experts' has never even tried to presented collect evidence that goes beyond an analysis of just one pair of hands. So I would not be surprized if nobody responds... beyond sharing their opinion about timing models)

I'll keep this in mind when I'm reading hands and someone gives me some interesting feedback about their lives. Then I'll take photos and if possible prints. After I get a few I'll present only the section of the palm under the fingers and above the head line and we'll see if events can be matched to heart lines.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  pravin kumar on Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:43 am

Patti,

I would definitely respond but I would like to see the fate line and life line too for confirmations.

Pravin Kumar

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Patti on Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:09 am

pravin kumar wrote:Patti,

I would definitely respond but I would like to see the fate line and life line too for confirmations.

Pravin Kumar

Normally I would agree but the test is all about the heart line. Past experiences, in my opinion, are more easily seen on the fate and life line and interpreted without a need for confirmation of the heart line. To test the theory that the heart line can be reliably timed, the heart line would have to stand alone.

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  RishiRahul on Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:52 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Hello Parender,

Thank you for sharing your thought.
I observe that so far you have made only made some claims, without describing how you made your observations regarding that claim. Can you please share more specific details about the nature of your observations?

Second, can you present an explanation for the fact that many very experienced hand readers (to mention a few: William G. Benham [USA], and Yaschpaule [Indonesia], Ghanshyam Singh Birla (India/Canada) & Edo Sprong [The Netherlands] have refered to Benham's work and confirmed Benham's observation) have adopted the idea that the heart line ends under the little finger... indirectly supported by the scientific evidence which points out that in the fetal hand the heart line starts developing at the thumb side of the hand.


PS. You e.g. used the 'depth' of the heart line (shallower at the thumb side of the palm) as an argument; you wrote:

"Secondly, the major lines are usually found deeper at the starting point and become lighter as they proceeds and Heart Line is found so."

But I think this observation can not be used as an argument regarding how to decide where the heart line ends or begins, because for example... at the 'dissociated head line' we can always see that the line becomes shallower at both termination points. So, your observation relates only directly to the typical manifestion of far most lines - which indicates that your observation might not be suitable at all in order to judge where the heart line ends or begins...!!!


Thanks!

Hi Martin.

Benham was one of the best palmists; rather, the only Palmist who went into actual details in explaining. In fact his Logic in Palmistry is 'HARD' in facts/Truth.

It is again very difficult to 'prove' something 'tangibly'.
However one would note that people with Physical heart troubles (which mostly occur with advancing age) has the pinky portion of the line frayed/ having descending lines.
The begining portion of the line reveal their love nature.

Talking of reading ages, I have found Benham to be working. He takes the lines end at 72. Though many live beyond 72, one will still find his age calculations not going wrong. One may check the ages where the fate lines are cut or having influences converging etc.

Cheiro similarly places the end as 91, and this gives more correct (harder) readings. The stronger events can be read from Cheiro.

I follow the ages of Benham and Cheiro; but with some alterations.

We can never, so easily, refute the observations of such reputed as Behnam and Cheiro, who devoted their lives and passion in this research.

RishiRahul

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:37 pm

Patti wrote:
Perhaps those that believe they can accurately time the heart line show a few examples. Perhaps we can create a small test of a group of participants with important events in their lives at particular times points and see if just how many can get it right.

Patti, I too liked this idea. Will surely participate for this.

However, to add 1 more point: There are 2 groups of eminent palmist from past who have followed contradicting approaches in reading the hands.There might be a combined and new direction altogether, where either approach is correct and is highlighting some information. we may emerge out with new findings. Let us see.

Thanks!
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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  philip12 on Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:01 am

Find this thread really interesting.. Learned a lot.. Thanks Thumb up 

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:14 pm

Bump

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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  rajeevkrsharmaji on Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:21 pm

Martijn

I am already reading the discussion here Thanks!


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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  pravin kumar on Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:08 am

There are theories that Heart Line start from below the smallest finger and others believe it starts from the Index Finger. There was a discussion in this Group long time back. See if you can find the link.

rajeevkrsharmaji wrote: Martijn

I am already reading the discussion here  Thanks!


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Re: How should the heart line be read?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:46 am


I just found an older more thorough discussion involving the starting point of the heart line, see:
Visions for the starting point of the heart line


Bump

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Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

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