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Post  Patti on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:20 pm

kiwihands wrote:Hi Patti and Lynn,

what an interesting discussion. You have both expressed similar thoughts to mine, though in a much better way than I could have - the difficulties in interpreting something so rare, the appearance of a print being used as a description for experience in life, etc.

Duke's description (though I saw, Patti, that you mentioned he was talking about a double loop) made me smile, because of its reference to the "erratic nature" of the subject: if I had to pick one word to describe my friend, it would be Erratic.
lol!

Cheers
wave


Hi Kiwi!

Erratic would probably be a description for any dual nature feature. A double loop and the accidental patterns would both have this duality.

The definition of expecting things to come crashing down seems a characteristic that goes beyond a rare fingerprint. There are so many places in all our lives that we 'hold our breath' waiting for a result..hoping all goes well. Working hard on a project and hoping as it nears completion all stays together. Or... just the child with building with blocks or a deck of cards, a castle, until the ultimate moment it all crashes down. This is just too common a 'feeling' to be applied to a fingerprint type.

Unpredictable, erratic behavior seems more suitable to me.

wave
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Post  kiwihands on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:35 pm

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Post  Lynn on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:41 pm

Patti wrote:
Lynn wrote:Falling loops are more common than the % you quoted Patti as they're not confined to accidentals. eg some double loops, lateral pocket loops, nutant loops.
As far as I know it was the Cheirological Society research group who came up with the definition (?)

The only place I can find it written about is in Duke's book.

"Falling Loop - Water and Fire elements - "this confers to a dual approach to one's experiences. It gives action and inaction of mind and body, and is thus associated with an erratic nature. Often highly perceptive, its possessors need earth features to stabilize them. it is considered an atavistic sign."

Didn't the Cheirological Society discount his work - or just some of it?

I also looked in Christopher Jone's private publication "The Interpretation of Dermatoglyphic Patterns" and couldn't find it mentioned there either.

Where else to look? Hutchinson?

The drawing in Duke's book is a form of a double loop. In his examples of each different fingerprint, there is no other double loop except for the 'imploding whorl' a folded over form of print that is sometimes found on the little fingers.

In the FBI's illustrations many double loops have a drooping upper loop.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19022/19022-h/19022-h.htm
fig. 255 - 266 - I think 266 is the one most likely described as having an appearance of a wave.

Actually, looking over what I've found. I think Duke called the double loop a 'falling loop' and gave it the interpretation above and somehow over time the definition got divided and skewed. The wave loop pattern is being called a 'falling loop' and Duke named the double loop the 'falling loop'.

Sorry, I could have saved you looking thru Christopher's dermos book, I'd already checked. It's not in Hutchinson, nor Johnny Fincham either. Jen Hirsch mentions nutant loop & lateral pocket loop, but not the definition.
Yes the disbanded C.Soc discounted some of Dukes' work. They did lots of research that was never published, or only published in their journals. I don't recall reading about falling loops in any book.
btw, "Like a wave coming up on the shore" is my standard way of describing loops, not just falling loops or ones like fig 266. Whereas Johnny uses "the tidal stream". Smile


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Post  Lynn on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:44 pm

Patti wrote:The definition of expecting things to come crashing down seems a characteristic that goes beyond a rare fingerprint. There are so many places in all our lives that we 'hold our breath' waiting for a result..hoping all goes well.
Hi Patti, I didn't say anything about hopes, fears or expectations associated with falling loop!

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Post  Lynn on Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:07 am

Quick look ....I can't find falling loop in my F.Dip or Int.Dip notes, nor in the indexes to the C.Soc journals. Perhaps I made it up! lol! I'm joking. I know it came from somewhere, maybe Christopher Jones or Laura Thornton.

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Post  Patti on Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:56 am

Lynn wrote:Quick look ....I can't find falling loop in my F.Dip or Int.Dip notes, nor in the indexes to the C.Soc journals. Perhaps I made it up! lol! I'm joking. I know it came from somewhere, maybe Christopher Jones or Laura Thornton.

What are F.Dip and Int.Dip notes?

Thanks Lynn for looking, too. The only place I see it is in Duke's book and Ed's website mentioned in the other topic on this subject. And Ed is describing Duke.

In Duke's book, regarding fingerprints, I notice he discusses in a detailed way the quandrants of the finger tips and describes the flow of ridges as waves that are moving upward.
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Post  Lynn on Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:00 am

sorry... F.Dip & Int.Dip = Foundation Diploma & Intermediate Diploma.

re "The only place I see it is in Duke's book." me too. which confirms that I must have got falling loop interpretation from Cheirological Society, as nobody else seems to talk about 'falling loops'. (apart from Ed quoting Dukes). Tho in Dukes book, as you say, his pic is of double loop.

(edit - PS argh ... reminding me about the hours we spent on the tedious process of quadranting fingertips! That book took some studying! I haven't read it for 12 years. Laughing )

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Post  Patti on Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:15 am

Thanks!
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