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Low 2D:4D finger ratio: a confirmed hand sign in Autism!

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Low 2D:4D finger ratio: a confirmed hand sign in Autism!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:46 pm



Over the past decade quite a few studies have been presented which all confirmed that a low 2D:4D finger ratio is a hand sign that is typically seen in autism (autistic spectrum disorder).

A few of these studies are presented in the following documents:
- 2001: http://www.autismresearchcentre.com/docs/papers/2002_manning_etal.pdf
- 2006: http://publishing.eur.nl/ir/repub/asset/20475/070124_Bruin,%20Esther%20Irene%20de.pdf (two studies, see chapter 6 & 7)
- 2006: http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/2819/
- 2011: http://www.bmj.sk/2011/11207-02.pdf

These studies have indicated that autistic people often have a (average) digit ratio that is clearly below the (average) digit ratio in controls.

And Manning's 2001 study has shown that the digit ratio in autistic people is typically also the (average) digit ratio in family members - where the parents of autistic people (especially the father) tends to have a (average) digit ratio that is slightly below average values.


NOTICE: One should also be aware that the digit ratio varies with ethnicity, but in general one can say that in caucasians a digit ratio below 0.94 could be described as a manifestation typically seen in autism (however in quite some other ethnic populations lower values are required in order to be recognized as significant), see:
http://fingerlengthdigitratio.wordpress.com/2008/10/01/finger-length-related-to-autism-low-digit-ratio-094/

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Re: Low 2D:4D finger ratio: a confirmed hand sign in Autism!

Post  Parender on Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:21 pm

Hello Martijn,

This is right that differences in finger length ratio between males 'may' indicate autism, with spreading developmental disorder and anxiety disorders, but, this cannot be sure or confirmed hand sign for autism.

Researchers have also found that a longer ring finger makes a person attractive. If ring finger is longer than index finger will be smaller. I want to know how a person at a time can be attractive, vivid, shiny, promising and suffer from autism too? Yes, the hand would have to be analyzed in totality then.

But, we cannot say with surety that Children with autism have a relatively shorter index finger (2D) compared with their ring finger (4D) definitely. This will be IMPROPER and will create doubts in freshers. It will be PROPER to say that low 2D:4D ratio ‘MAY’ serve as one possible marker of autism.

This is clearly mentioned there at the link mentioned below. I KNOW MANY MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE SHORT INDEX FINGER AND NOT SUFFERING FROM AUTISM AT ALL.

They say “It is often PRESUMED that the 2D:4D ratio is associated with fetal testosterone levels and that high fetal testosterone levels COULD play a role in the cause of the disease of autism. They also say that “It is unknown whether this effect is specific to autism.”

I think you will agree with me that this is not a confirmed hand sign of autism.
Source: http://www.autismresearchcentre.com/docs/papers/2002_manning_etal.pdf
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Re: Low 2D:4D finger ratio: a confirmed hand sign in Autism!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:37 am


Dear Parender,

I only used the word 'confirmed' to highlighten the fact that many studies around the world have confirmed that a low 2D:4D digit ratio is usually found in autism.

Regarding your words:

"But, we cannot say with surety that Children with autism have a relatively shorter index finger (2D) compared with their ring finger (4D) definitely."

True!

However, your words appear to suggest that I made such claims by using the word 'confirmed', but now that I have explained why I used the word 'confirmed'... I can only hope that you will now recognize that you misinterpretated my use of the that word. Because, if you re-read my first post properly... you should notice that I never suggested that it is a 'sure' indicator for autism.

Does this make sense so far?


Then regarding your words:

"Researchers have also found that a longer ring finger makes a person attractive. If ring finger is longer than index finger will be smaller. I want to know how a person at a time can be attractive, vivid, shiny, promising and suffer from autism too? Yes, the hand would have to be analyzed in totality then."

True, that is a valid question!

The answer is that this can be understood by focussing on how the hormone 'testosterone' can manifest in various types of behavior... including various positive types of behavior (like for example: assertiveness & enthousiasm)... plus various less-positive types of behavior (like for example: autism & agression).

So, yes you are right again... one can not 'interpretate' any manifestation of the 2D:4D digit ratio without considering other aspects of the hand.

But the 2D:4D digit ratio is for sure a key-element in understanding how autism manifests via the hand - though (having said that) this does not implicates that all people with autistic spectrum disorders have a low 2D:4D digit ratio... but for sure: a large majority of them do have this hand characteristic.

Makes sense now...???



Anyway... Parender, thanks for responding + sharing your thoughts & questions!!


Thumbs up!

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Re: Low 2D:4D finger ratio: a confirmed hand sign in Autism!

Post  zeblethai on Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:05 pm

Parender said.. "Researchers have also found that a longer ring finger makes a person attractive. If ring finger is longer than index finger will be smaller. I want to know how a person at a time can be attractive, vivid, shiny, promising and suffer from autism too? Yes, the hand would have to be analyzed in totality then."
Is it attractiveness, based on sexual attraction or is it simply being an attractive person that you are referring to? The reason I ask is because I have found that the autistic people that I have met to be attractive in the sense that I look past their social faults to the pureness of their self. I find it completely refreshing to be around someone is isn't caught up in how they appear to others. Now, my experience with people with Autism has been with more of the functioning Autistic variety. Not everyone shares my views on this, maybe subconsciously they are attractive for being themselves.

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Re: Low 2D:4D finger ratio: a confirmed hand sign in Autism!

Post  Parender on Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:04 am

Hello zeblethai,

They say the longer a man's fourth or ring finger is compared to his index finger, the more likely he is to be judged attractive by women, according to a new study.

But, I think an attractive person is first of all pleasing to the eyes or mind in first place through beauty or charm who has attractive personality.

For example you can say like attractive clothes or attractive book or book cover or attractive illustrations. Your job is attractive because of your pay. A person who has the properties of a magnet; can say who has the ability to draw or pull. Like me! Ha ha ha!
They say Men with higher testosterone tend to have deeper voices, more symmetrical faces, and ‘a distinct body odor who have longer Ring Finger. You can read full essay at:

And the link at the forum posted by me is:
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t753-attractive-men-have-long-ring-fingers
And autism means (psychiatry) an abnormal absorption with the self; marked by communication disorders and short attention span and inability to treat others as people. This is quite contrary to attractiveness.

Obviously, you may be right in this regard because no sign on the palms of the hands is absolute in itself. It will depend on person particular.
Enjoy!
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Re: Low 2D:4D finger ratio: a confirmed hand sign in Autism!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:07 pm


This 2011 study suggests that in the perspective of autism, one should not expect to find typical characteristics regarding the hand shape:

"No differences between autistics and controls were found for height, middle finger length, hand palm length, hand length and foot length."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3005119/


However... unfortunately the report does not present any info related to 'hand breadth', so regarding hand shape the study only reports info on the aspect of 'finger length versus palm length' (and both elements in isolation).

So, regarding hand morphology one should better focuss on the typical features that are often found in the fingers - such as: low 2D:4D digit ratio and/or short 5th finger with clinodactyly.


PS. In the following topic an example of a young boy with autistic spectrum disorder is presented - his hands show the combination of a very low 2D:4D digit ratio (see especially his right hand) + a very short 5th finger (see especially his left hand - notice the unusually short proximal phalange):
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t1119-young-man-with-a-form-of-autism

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Re: Low 2D:4D finger ratio: a confirmed hand sign in Autism!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:36 pm


Here are more results from a Japanese study (2009) displaying huge digit ratio variation between people have autistic spectrum disorder (autism) & controls:

'Study of HOXD genes in autism particularly regarding the ratio of second to fourth digit length':
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0387760409001673


(The picture below presents a visual presentation of the results: 2D:4D digit ratio in ASD is 0.93, while the 2D:4D digit ratio in the controls is 0.98)



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seems true in our case

Post  cnriley45 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:53 pm

This is left hand of my lowfunctioning  nonverbal autistic son
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this is right hand

Post  cnriley45 on Thu Jul 10, 2014 5:55 pm

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