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LEFT HAND RIGHT HAND WHere is the answer

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Post  anand_palm Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:56 pm

Hello all

This answer still confuses me and iam not satisfied with answers on this, i have got some good palmist in india and they all look at right hand and their prediction is right sometimes they look at both, but one important thingh to note is that in western palmsitry they put their wedding ring in their left hand which i feel is one of the reason i think they talk as personal or publc. however in india we dont have ring concept or anythingh like that and for blessing somebody we use our right hand and do all activiities by right hand, so is this differnce in public or personal comes from culture.

also how far has the scientific theory been proved that left brain is logic, ect.. and right is holistic, is it proved or still to be proved, i read in abook that no matter what, left brain has huge power to control and process info compared to right even though right provides information, the left dominates.

another book which i read from johny fincham states that until age of 21 the left hand dominates and after the active hand starts to dominates.

ofcourse the public and personal concept does not make sense to me, it sounds like if there is difference in left and right hand then the persons is having two different behavior pattern which sounds irrational, then most of the people in the world should go for some treatment, if the brain is one unit how can we have two different faces public and personal, iam not able to get it. whether we are at home or at work we use both, at home also we have logical or intuitive debates ect.. if that is case we are combination of both rather than a public or personal side, i dont think there is personal side or public side to this.

if anybody can clarify my doubts it would be great.

thanks
anand

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Post  Patti Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:24 am

anand_palm wrote:Hello all

This answer still confuses me and iam not satisfied with answers on this, i have got some good palmist in india and they all look at right hand and their prediction is right sometimes they look at both, but one important thingh to note is that in western palmsitry they put their wedding ring in their left hand which i feel is one of the reason i think they talk as personal or publc. however in india we dont have ring concept or anythingh like that and for blessing somebody we use our right hand and do all activiities by right hand, so is this differnce in public or personal comes from culture.

also how far has the scientific theory been proved that left brain is logic, ect.. and right is holistic, is it proved or still to be proved, i read in abook that no matter what, left brain has huge power to control and process info compared to right even though right provides information, the left dominates.

another book which i read from johny fincham states that until age of 21 the left hand dominates and after the active hand starts to dominates.

ofcourse the public and personal concept does not make sense to me, it sounds like if there is difference in left and right hand then the persons is having two different behavior pattern which sounds irrational, then most of the people in the world should go for some treatment, if the brain is one unit how can we have two different faces public and personal, iam not able to get it. whether we are at home or at work we use both, at home also we have logical or intuitive debates ect.. if that is case we are combination of both rather than a public or personal side, i dont think there is personal side or public side to this.

if anybody can clarify my doubts it would be great.

thanks
anand


Hi Anand,
Regarding increasing number of differences between the two hands and people needing to see a doctor (or therapist) would relate to statistics and criteria for schizophrenia. Martijn has started several threads about this topic.

We probably all 'talk to ourselves' to some degree. One of the comments I make to people with dissimilar right and left hands is "They talk to themselves - a lot. Even argue." I say it jokingly but then continue on to point out the inner and outer differences. These people are very aware of their differences.

There are also people who put on a professional persona at work and at home are different. For instance, sometime women who have an authoritative role at their work, may be the opposite at home and find themselves (or prefer) playing a more submissive role. Men can do the same thing or reverse.

Bi polar people who take medication have told me they like the even keel of feelings but miss the excitement of the swinging moods - particularly when they were swinging upwards.

There is plenty of documented cases of studies of the left and right hemispheres. Based on our current understanding of the brain, the left and right brains have different functions. There are levels of awareness we have no tools for which to measure, yet.

In one of my brain books, there's mention of an interesting condition. Typically the brain sends a signal to both hands, such as open the door. On the way to the arms the dominant hand accepts the command and the non-dominant hand ignores it. So you reach for the door knob with one hand only. This particular disease or condition causes a person to reach for the knob with both hands - and since the dominant hand has already opened the door the non-dominant hand 'needs' to follow a similar command so it will immediately close it. Smile

In the article I wrote at my web site about left handed inverted writers, the links at the bottom show research that was specifically focused on the differences between left brain and right brain signals and writing positions. This is just one sample showing evidence of the differences in the functioning of the two hemispheres.

Patti
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Post  Sari Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:07 am

I like to read both palms, if they are right handed, I check the left hand for differences, and compare. I am right handed and have noticed my left hand is clearer on what I feel, my right hand is more clear on actual events.
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Post  anand_palm Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:34 pm

Hello Patti, Sari

Thanls fo rthe inputs,

You mean to say they are dual personality and that is their inherent nature, but why do u say professional and personal and why people mention in all book public is right and personal is left when science says the brain is one unit with left and right brain hemisphere. But then iam not able to understand why should a person two different behavior when actually there is connectivity between left and right.

Iam not sure about but i have seen men have more right hand domination and woman have left hand domination, has this somethingh do with evolution typically becasue right from hunting age or hunter gatherers or nomads men used to go and obtain thinghs hence by evolution men become more right hand dominant, iam just guessing.

I do agree left and right brain have different functions like holistics is right brain adn logic is left ect.. but still what has that go to do with home and professionalism, do you mean to say professionalism is somethingh like the actual world were you have to survive or be an hunter gather or nomad. so whoever has strong right hand domination is the hero.
In a sense do you say left hemisphere deals with creating strategies ideas to survive whereas right might have seen trees in a far away forest like holistics am i right here.

Personally i think there is nobody who is totally left brain or right brain everybody is a mixture of both.

Another question do you use fingerpritns as a basis for left and right hand doimantion or lines as a basis.

Thanks
anand
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Post  anand_palm Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:30 pm

Hello Patti, Sari

A person let us say according to you right hand dominant and is authoritarian would be the same at home also, how can he be submissive and if so how can just have his right brain which according to newer palmistry is related to personal side. reality is both left and right have to function togetherand they dont function together unless there is damage to corpus callosum by which the connectivity is lost.
Brain theory from the book and website which i have read say that there are two theory one which says modularity and the other which says holistics, the first one says every part of the brain has one set of function on for language, logic, where each part of brain functions independently of other have diiferent function like reason, math ect..and each function does not communicate to the other but does it job and sends it to next.

the holistic approach talks about connectivity, interdependence ect..

also some say that everythingh is totally holisitc in a sense everythingh of brain is connected and not everythingh in brainfunction in a singular or localized way and the brain uses both in adynamic way, in such cases dont you think our conclusion on personal and professional becomes a highly debatable questions.

i appreciate your inputs.
Thanks
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Post  Sari Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:13 pm

I agree, but to find all these answers in the hand scratch , we are all actually both handed, as long as we have two hands, we use both, yes I write with my right hand but as I type I use both, when I eat, I use both, when I dress I use both etc etc..
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Post  mooky Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:29 am

anand_palm wrote:
also how far has the scientific theory been proved that left brain is logic, ect.. and right is holistic, is it proved or still to be proved, i read in abook that no matter what, left brain has huge power to control and process info compared to right even though right provides information, the left dominates.

I have spent quite a bit of time over the last few months looking at this subject. The quick answer is that it is not quite as cut and dry as left=logic and right=holistic. It appears that the right brain does engage in specialized logical processes. I will not try to get into those details. I am still working on getting some control over the two sides. As a simian crease(s) owner this is of particular interest to me.

One very interesting story is that of Jill Bolte Taylor who is a brain researcher who had a stroke. Her description of her right brain activity during the stroke is fascinating.



So, that makes me think there really is something to right=holistic.

Also, this book and teaching system by Betty Edwards for learning to draw (art) is more evidence for the specialties of the right brain.

Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain

In my search I was trying to find out which side of the brain I actually use the most. I ran across this test which was supposed to tell you which side you favored. As it turns out, I believe it has been debunked as proving that. When I watch this it easily turns both ways for me, but I don't think that means anything. I have even had two copies of this up at the same time and had them going in opposite directions.

The Right Brain vs Left Brain

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Post  Patti Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:53 am

Thumbs up!
I had forgotten about Jill's experience! Excellent example Mooky. It's amazing to listen to her describe as a brain expert her awareness of what she was experiencing.
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Post  Patti Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:11 am

Mooky, the visual test at the last link you shared is quite an illusion. At the beginning it was spinning clockwise then when I stared at her feet and the shadow it switched to counter clockwise. I can only consciously make it switch by watching the shadow and visualizing it as clockwise or counterclockwise and the dancer switches accordingly.

Once just looking over at the text and in glancing back she switched.

Interesting!! Was it the eye movement or was it my mind switching into reading a language mode!
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Post  Patti Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:43 pm

Mooky,
It's really fascinating playing around with making her spin clockwise and counter clockwise. It is much like looking at the cube below. Sometimes the upper corner is closer and sometimes the lower is closer in the inside angles. Is her leg swinging around in front or is it in the back...same concept.


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/weird/the-right-brain-vs-left-brain/story-e6frev20-1111114577583

LEFT HAND RIGHT HAND WHere is the answer Cube

Yet I wonder if this really is about left-brain and right-brain thinking...?
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Post  anand_palm Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:18 pm

Hi Mooky

The answer is both, you have also look at mirror image (reflection at bottom). but this will not validate your left and right brain, i guess the reason his initally people have simple look and say clockwise and the they go into details and ind out anti clockwise due to mirror image is the reason why they have mentioned anticlockwise for left brain.

thanks
anand
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Post  Patti Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:09 pm

anand_palm wrote:Hi Mooky

The answer is both, you have also look at mirror image (reflection at bottom). but this will not validate your left and right brain, i guess the reason his initally people have simple look and say clockwise and the they go into details and ind out anti clockwise due to mirror image is the reason why they have mentioned anticlockwise for left brain.

thanks
anand

Anand, the girl actually appears to turn in both directions.

I have found ways to make her change 'before my eyes'. Aim your palm upwards in between your face and the spinning girl. Then draw a circle with your hand - going in the opposite direction the girl is turning. She will then switch to turn with your hand. Sometimes just looking at her knees and visualizing the legs opposite - front to back - like the cube above - and she will switch. It is only an optical illusion.

p.s.: when she is spinning clockwise her right foot is the one up and when she is spinning counter clockwise her left foot is the one that is up. Watching at the knees and mentally switching her legs can cause her to spin the other direction in your eyes.
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Post  mooky Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:25 am

Well... I found a Wikipedia article that discusses what is going on with the spinning dancer. But I still find it interesting. For example, it seems that whenever I open it the girl is spinning clockwise. I can easily make it spin the other way by looking to the side and reading some text. The reason I say this is interesting is because the book I mention above about learning art from a right brain perspective talks about the left brain being involved with language.

Anyway, here is the Wiki about it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spinning_Dancer

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Post  Patti Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:07 am

mooky wrote:Well... I found a Wikipedia article that discusses what is going on with the spinning dancer. But I still find it interesting. For example, it seems that whenever I open it the girl is spinning clockwise. I can easily make it spin the other way by looking to the side and reading some text. The reason I say this is interesting is because the book I mention above about learning art from a right brain perspective talks about the left brain being involved with language.

Anyway, here is the Wiki about it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spinning_Dancer

Looks like I'm not the only one who spent a bit of time playing around with her. Thanks Mooky for the wiki link! I can also see her swinging her leg from side to side 180 degrees too, I was glad to see that in the list of possibilities.

Fascinating!
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Post  anand_palm Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:44 am

Hi Patti and Mooky

What should be the final answer for left and right, thw way i have read brain study or whaetevr i got si that evetually the left brain has more power than the right brain, no matter what the right has saty quiet and quietly do what the left says, is this true.

when you look from brain theory concept there is no public or personal side to our functioning it is all one single unit. Now cooming to the point how should we go about, is there a way, old times they never looked at science part, modern times we look at science, now we are trying to create a link to palmistry using this scientific theory, then how do we go about.

Like the concept of public, personal does not make sense when you look at brain hemisphere relation, left, right and corpus callocum.

the concpt of public would make sense only when natural selection comes in as a issue. Iam not sure iam jsut thinking.

Looking at the way the brain functions, there is dominance of left brain which is what people who have studied are saying. that is even though information flows to the left brain from right brain there is a filtering mechanism which left does. If so is natural slection the reason why left does.


If at all we are saying left is dominant then it is the most essentail part to make as it involves survival part. The right might have function but when it comes to survival left dominates.

Now comming to plamistry part, how is thsi going to help in the way we look and conclude. from brain theory we have to draw conclusion or from ancient practices which varies from cultutre to culture and society to society.

If brain theory is included into palmistry then there might not be a possibility of personal, public, left for females, right for males or other way around. this will take break the age old concept of palmistry written by all societies (west or east). then what would be the answer, if we take brain theory then assesment of every finger, palm left and right hand has to be drawn conclusively hence a reevaluation of palmistry is needed. this would require a detaled analsyis of how connectivity is there to the brain through this. but that will take years. then how should we go about.

Thanks
Anand
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Post  mooky Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:58 pm

Anand,

I think it would be boring if there was an answer. Personally I'm just looking for possibilities. For new tools and new ways of doing things, learning, and existing.

Here is an amazing story of a young girl who had half of her brain removed completely. Note that this was the right hemisphere. Perhaps she would have had a harder time if the left had been removed. I don't know. But, the good news is that the brain is what they call plastic. It can adapt. If it can adapt when huge portions of it have been removed, then surely it can adapt when it is still intact. The challenge therefore is understanding how each half works in us and then working from there. Which makes it difficult if you are using your left brain to understand how the right side works, and visa versa. Is it any wonder that there are things like palmistry, meditation, NLP, chanting, tarot, numerology, psychiatry, etc etc etc? scratch


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Post  Lynn Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:42 am

wow I never heard of such drastic surgery, and look at that girl, amazing!
great post & great link mooky, thanks.

Anand, maybe think more of 'inner and outer', 'inherent & developed' rather than simply 'public & private' ?
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Post  Patti Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:03 am

That is amazing!
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Post  anand_palm Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:26 am

Hello all

I could not see the link which mooky had sent due to some reasons in my computer, i will look at the link. It is interesting what mooky said if we get the answers then thinghs become boring, but that is kind of human nature to know thinghs more. i guess that is how research is. But there has to be mystery to life, then life is not interesting.

ofcourse palmistry might have answers and may not have answers.

regarding Lynn reply, thanks for your reply. But iam not satisfied with the developed, inherent. as far as hand is concerend there is a static part and there is a changing part, the static part is dermatoglyphics which can be said as inherent, the developed part is your lines, mounts, phalanges shapes ect, finger bent straight ect.. which is what you have worked, it might not matter whether it is in your left or right hand. If you look from this perspective how would you go about. Now you can always debate whether this approach is right or wrong.

Also the usage of hand also matters, some people are ambidextrous, lot of right handed people and some left handed people. At least in asia you can find people more right handed. By usage of these hand do lines change and henceforth people have come to conclusion on inherent, developed ect, iam not sure but it looks like. Sometimes incomplete observations can mislead us to imrpoper conclusions. Nowadays due to usage of computer people are forced to use both hand, so there might be changes to both hands. from that point the concept of inherent, personal can defeated and argued upon. In essence condition and envrionment plays a role here.

But conditions and environment do not play a role in static part, so at least in our life span the static part does not change. Therefore all the changes is lines, mounts, finger shapes and these are dynamic and are the ones which we can call as developed.

Now comming to the topic, my question is what would be the basis by which we should go about, is it by brain theory or by traditional palmist, or by our own judgement. From the way i look at it and what i learnt from the forum discussions, i would say look at the hands as a whole, and no need for categorzing personal, developed for hands. If the whole human body is one unit it is one unit. it can never function independently, it can function through inherent (static) and dynamic nature. Dynamic is lines, static is dermatoglyphics. One is change and other is fixed, but have different ways, but both have cooperate to function harmoniously for its own survival.

I would appreciate your valuable inputs.

Thanks
Anand



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Post  Patti Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:21 pm

Hi Anand,
You may want to look through books like The Psychobiology of the Hand, edited by Kevin J. Connolly, a collection of researchers and professionals discussing the combined effects of the structure of the hand and the mind. Frank R. Wilson's The Hand is also good.

You suggest that today's common use of the computer allows people to use both hands more frequently in a task. But, many tasks involve both hands. Tying shoes for instance.

In one of my brain books it suggests that signals go from the brain to both sides, but one side is dominant in carrying out the instructions. Such as opening a door, one hand reaches for the handle. The dominant side sends a signal back saying it will handle the task and the non-dominant side then ignores the assignment.

There is an illness where the dominant side does not send out the signal. People with this ailment have problems like, one hand opens the door and the other hand closes it. Once the shoes are tied, the other hand unties them. This is because the follow up action arrives with a command to turn a door knob and the other hand has already opened it so it has nothing to do but close it. lol!
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Post  Lynn Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:24 am

hi Anand,
Does this example help to illustrate what I am trying to say about inner/outer, private/public, inherent instincts/developed character.... ??
e.g. Left hand (passive) has very flexible fingers & thumb. Right hand (dominant) has rigid fingers & thumb. Their natural inner tendencies (LH) are to be flexible, adaptable, give in to to others, bend over backwards to help people. However they have developed ability (RH) to be more assertive, to focus on achieving their goals, to be more rigid in what they want. Their natural instinct is to give in to people, but they have developed the ability to create boundaries & say 'no'. At home (in their private life - LH) they might subjugate their own desires and give in to their friends & family, but at work (public face - RH) they are the boss and they won't allow anyone to take advantage of them.

Yes, dermatoglyphics in both hands are inherent. We can't change the print but over the years we can learn how to deal with them, any difficulties & uncertainties. For example in a double loop, people can learn how to be more decisive - maybe they can go with the more decisive whorl on their index finger and ignore the unsure double loop on their thumb - and the thumb can become more rigid as a consequence.

just an example, I hope I explained it OK in a way that can be understood?

(I wish to take part in this discussion further, but, sorry my access to the forum is very limited recently. For some reason it will not load some days, sometimes I can read but not reply. Luckily tonight I have connection to reply.)

(edit) PS I agree with some of what you say Anand eg 'look at the hands as a whole', and I understand your struggle with difference between left and right hands. How do you see the difference between left and right Anand?
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Post  Lynn Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:37 am

Anand said
"Nowadays due to usage of computer people are forced to use both hand, so there might be changes to both hands. from that point the concept of inherent, personal can defeated and argued upon. In essence condition and envrionment plays a role here."

see this news link about how playing computer games can change the structure of your brain!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15720178
Lynn
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LEFT HAND RIGHT HAND WHere is the answer Empty Left and Right hand where is the answer

Post  anand_palm Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:24 am

Hello Lynn, Patti

Thanks for you rreply, i have to read the suggestion made by patti, but i did make glance from google book, it looks like one artcile written by Marrian Annet " The stability of handness" might be useful for detailed discussion. Iam a novice in this aprt, but i think i can read it and understand the subject.
Thanks Lynn, you have a good way of explaining by using an example. I understood what you are saying.

I guess the whole issue of which hand to use has to be dealt partly with palmistry own historical development, culture and science. looking from hsitory point of view, east has a different point of view, west has a different point of view. In eastern culutre atleast i can say in india, all well read and professional palmist look at right hand and the if need be they look at left hand. they do look at both but emphasis is given to right for reading. From the way i look at westeren societies they seem to have categorized somewhere that right is public and left is personal, iam not sure who did, how it happened and what basis but it happened. So if you look at all books they have written right is active, left is passive, but i could not see a basis by which they done this. My point is this passive and active concept science related or some said belief or observation by various people in the western societies.


Okay let us go by science, if that is case we have to validate through research, discussion of scientist and other people who are knowledgeable in the field. So according to science and other brain development (please note iam a novice in this field) and books iam trying to read the right has certain function and right brain and left part of body is coordinated, like brain gives instruction for left hand to do some work and like wise left brain gives right hand to do some work. Having put this in equation can we for sure say that right brain and left hand functions are related and hence forth left hand is more related to right brain and therefore all palmistry related stuff such as behavior, holistic approach can be deciphered from left hand hence their right brain can be understood, like wise can i say looking at somebody left hand I would say their right brain can be understood. The similar fashion goes for right hand. If at all this assumption is right, then there is no question of public or personal, all there is logic, holistic, speech, imagination, aggression, ambiton ect. Ofcourse we have to correlate it to specific areas and then come to conclusion, which would take years of research. Therefore from science point of view and if at all relationship is drawn through basis of science then the concept of public, personal can be defeated.
Now to your question whether the usage of changed the way brain function is still unanswered and some people have done some research in it and probably there would be more, this is dynamic part of the brain.
ofcourse as lynn has pointed whether hand is responsible for brain development and changes is still unclear and there are lot of unanswered questions.

Now if we neglect science and look from the point of view of public or personal, the what is the real answer. It is tough thingh to answer. There should be clear line between what is public or personal in your case you have public is what we are at work and personal is what we are at home. Ofcourse in modern world, we spend equal hours at home and work. From what I have understood of what you have written is personal is your natural inner tendencies an according to your observations it is left hand and right hand is developed. The developed hand is what has been developed what you have worked for in life to survive, and is more about survival instincts ect.. which is how you have evolved. Without bringing in the context of science and by going your logic and to validate it would require more observation of men and women. Women generally have stronger left hand than men left hand. Whether evolution made that happen, iam not sure because men have been typically been nomadic hunter, hunter gatherers in some sense. If you go by your logic we have to validate using nomadic men and observe whether they have right hand domination, iam not sure iam a bit confused on this front now, because being public and personal starts from there. My question is validation is needed to make conclusion like this. Since you have all been in this profession you may be having more data to be certain.
Now coming back to how to go about, What has confused me, science is going in an independent direction by its own way of analysis and other thinghs to come up with a conclusion. Now if you look at what they are saying left and right brain are different and have different functions. Now should we equate this to our palmistry subjects or should we leave it aside. If at all they are different function then concept of palmistry does not work out since left and right fingers are having same functions according to palmistry. Then what is the right answer.
The other is dermatoglyphics which is an important factor to be looked at from palmistry and this subject has been neglected in the palmistry field for a long time. How will that make an impact in our analysis, of course lynn has mentioned some good tips on how to go about. It is interesting that she gave her thoughts how inherent traits like dermatoglyphics plays a role in changing the hand shape, that is really interesting, if it is true then whether it has played a role in evolution. This all adds to more research and hence information. But more information more it would be difficult to conclude.
The basis for left and right has not been obtained, if obtained then validation is needed. Hand as whole I do agree, but home and public it needs validation. But also lynn don’t you think developed abilities also come at home. Lynn and Patti can you tell from where did this concept of passive and active arose, I see only western authors writing this. Please note the confusion arises because of the inner and outer all iam trying to say there is no such thingh as inner and outer, when combined it is one such thingh.
anand_palm
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Post  Roosi Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:09 pm

wave

Another interesting study

"In laboratory tests, right- and left-handers associate positive ideas like honesty and intelligence with their dominant side of space and negative ideas with their non-dominant side"

LEFT HAND RIGHT HAND WHere is the answer Goodandbadin

Good and Bad in the Hands of Politicians: Spontaneous Gestures during Positive and Negative Speech

sunny
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Post  anand_palm Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:26 pm

Hello Mooky

Amazing video, but it is a big risk the doctors have taken. It looks like left hemisphere has signifcant control. But anyway lot of thinghs to ponder.

Thanks
Anand
anand_palm
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