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Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

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Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:56 am


Where is the 'mouse' of the hand located? And why is it called the 'mouse'?
Can anybody give an answer based on a credible source? (Preferably a medical source)


Some books about palmistry describe that it is found at the dorsal side of the hand (back of the hand), see for example the following picture presented by Lori Reid's book 'The Art of Hand Reading':

PS. Patti, thanks for sharing the picture! Thumbs up!



However, other (medical) sources describe that the "thumb's mouse" is a synonym for the 'thenar' [mount of venus] - because it concerns a mouse-shaped muscle; see: How our hands are made! (Dutch article)

NOTICE: In Latin word 'mouse' means muscle; the picture below is taken from a Dutch source (medical oriented): the word 'duimmuis' is the Dutch translation for 'mouse of the thumb' (mount of venus), and the word 'pinkmuis' is the Dutch translation for the word 'mouse of the pinky' (mount of moon).


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sunny

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Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Patti on Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:09 am

Hi Martijn,
Your translation would be limited to those of you in the Netherlands.

I don't think looking for the use of the term 'mouse' in medical books for hand features will work any better than looking for the Mount of Venus in medical books. I believe it's a term used only in palmistry for this hand feature. Did you see it's also mentioned in Ed Campbell's book?

There's another image in a different book - I'll look for it.


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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:12 am


PS. So far I have only found that in the field of sportsmassage the 'mouse of the thumb' is a synonym for the mount of venus (medical vocabulary: 'thenar'), and the 'mouse of the pinky' is a synonym for the mount of moon (medical vocabulary: 'hypothenar').

These definitions are e.g. described in the (thorough) Dutch book:
Leerboek sportmassage

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
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Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:27 am

Patti wrote:Hi Martijn,
Your translation would be limited to those of you in the Netherlands.

I don't think looking for the use of the term 'mouse' in medical books for hand features will work any better than looking for the Mount of Venus in medical books. I believe it's a term used only in palmistry for this hand feature. Did you see it's also mentioned in Ed Campbell's book?

There's another image in a different book - I'll look for it.

Hi Patti,

So far I am aware that the word 'mouse' is defined at the back of the hand according various books about hand reading - including Ed's book.

But the word 'mouse' is certainly not limited to the field of hand reading (like you suggested)... because in the Netherlands it is actually THE most common used name (in daily life) to refer to the 'ball of the thumb' (in hand reading: 'mount of venus').

EDIT: And we usually only speak of the 'mouse', so it is confusing to see that some in some hand reading books the name 'mouse' is used for the (partly related) zone at the back of the hand.

However, strangely, in English language the word 'mouse of the hand' appears to be much more rare.... and instead they e.g. speak of 'ball of the thumb'.


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:42 am; edited 1 time in total

___________________________________________
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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Patti on Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:31 am

From "The Living Hand" Sasha Fenton and Malcoln Wright:




Patti

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Patti on Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:11 am

I think the confusion is that in using the term mouse in palmistry it is referring to the lump at the back of the hand that is pretty much in the shape of a mouse/rodent when looked at from above and is full and firm.



The word mouse that you are using is another word for muscle. Could you use this word alone and know which muscle is being referenced?





A mouse gripping a mouse.. lol!




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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Manfred on Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:06 am

Hi,
I know the "mouse" only on the outside of the hand liek on the picture of Lori Reed. We use it as an expression of the vital force of the lounges - left hand = left side, right hand = right side.

Manfred

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  kiwihands on Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:56 am

Same as Manfred and Patti, I had only heard of the "mouse" on the back of the hand.

Also, if the remnants of my Latin don't deceive me, the Latin for muscle is "musculus?" I haven't seen the diphtong "ou" in written Latin at all, that's why I wondered. Maybe really a Dutch translation thing.
scratch


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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:34 pm

... Google translates the Dutch words 'duimmuis & pinkmouse' into the English words as: 'thenar and finger mouse':
http://translate.google.com/#nl|en|duimmuis%20%26%20pinkmouse

But Google also translates the same words in reversed order ('pinkmuis & duimmuis) as: 'pinky and thumb ball mouse':
http://translate.google.com/#nl|en|pinkmouse%20%26%20duimmuis


This makes me wonder, what is the most commonly used word used in English language for the the word 'hypothenar'? Or is there no better alternative available in daily language?

(Then... why not? Because the word 'thumb ball' appears to be an alternative used in daily language for the word 'thenar'...!)


PS. Manfred & Kiwihands, have you ever seen the word 'mouse' used to make a reference to the back of the hand beyond the perspective of hand reading?

(I am still searching for a specified reason why hand reading authors have started using the word 'mouse' to refer to the back of the hand, while this word appears to have been used never in daily language for that region of the hand)

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Patti on Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:21 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:... Google translates the Dutch words 'duimmuis & pinkmouse' into the English words as: 'thenar and finger mouse':
http://translate.google.com/#nl|en|duimmuis%20%26%20pinkmouse

But Google also translates the same words in reversed order ('pinkmuis & duimmuis) as: 'pinky and thumb ball mouse':
http://translate.google.com/#nl|en|pinkmouse%20%26%20duimmuis


This makes me wonder, what is the most commonly used word used in English language for the the word 'hypothenar'? Or is there no better alternative available in daily language?

(Then... why not? Because the word 'thumb ball' appears to be an alternative used in daily language for the word 'thenar'...!)


PS. Manfred & Kiwihands, have you ever seen the word 'mouse' used to make a reference to the back of the hand beyond the perspective of hand reading?

(I am still searching for a specified reason why hand reading authors have started using the word 'mouse' to refer to the back of the hand, while this word appears to have been used never in daily language for that region of the hand)

In daily language we speak of the 'heel of the hand' in reference to the bottom of the palm. The outer side of the hand is typically called the percussion or just 'outer side of hand'.

I've heard the word 'ball' used more for the foot than the hand.

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Manfred on Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:39 pm

Dear Martijn,

I've learned this from one of my teachers and not from the English/Indian handreading tradition or literature. If my remembrance is right I saw a picture with it in a book, too, but at the moment I can't remember where. May be it was in one of the French palmist Henry Mangin.

Regards
Manfred

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:43 pm

Patti wrote:
In daily language we speak of the 'heel of the hand' in reference to the bottom of the palm. The outer side of the hand is typically called the percussion or just 'outer side of hand'.

I've heard the word 'ball' used more for the foot than the hand.

Okay Patti, thanks again for sharing your observations regarding the English vocabulary.

The following document http://teach.maryville.edu/myu/Bio300/Hand.ppt confirms:

- thenar eminence: ball / heel of thumb
- hypothenar eminence: heel of hand at little finger



scratch ... Sounds like that the Dutch vocabulary is a little bit more sophisticated regarding this aspect of the hand, because the 'heel of hand' appears to refer to both the thenar AND the hypothenar; but in daily life the word 'heel' refers in English language ONLY to the foot, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel_(disambiguation)

Anyway, I think a large part of my question has been answered now... because basically the Dutch word 'mouse of the hand' (handmuis) can best be translated into English language as the 'heel of the hand'.

Resulting in that we now sort of have three hand-mouses:
- thumbmouse
- pinkymouse
- dorsalmouse (= zone between thumb & index finger at the back of the hand when both fingers are heald together)

thinking Anyway, I realize that few people will understand what I am talking about when I continue to use these 'mice familly'... so in the future I will try to avoid using the word 'mouse'.


PS. I have another question: does anybody know the medical jargon (vocabulary) for the 'mouse at the back of the hand'?

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Patti on Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:05 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
PS. I have another question: does anybody know the medical jargon (vocabulary) for the 'mouse at the back of the hand'?[/color]

Dorsal Interosseous (1 of 1-4)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorsal_interossei_of_the_hand

(maybe it rhymes with 'mouse' lol! )








(and no 'mouse')



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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Manfred on Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:00 pm

Hy,

here is the oldest source about the hand "mouse" I know from the respected French chirologist:

Mangin, Henri: Die Hand ein Sinnbild des Menschen", Rascher Verlag, Zürich1973.
Original title: Le Main, Portrait de l'Homme, Edition du Griffon d'Or, Paris 1947 (?).



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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:25 pm

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
PS. I have another question: does anybody know the medical jargon (vocabulary) for the 'mouse at the back of the hand'?[/color]

Dorsal Interosseous (1 of 1-4)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorsal_interossei_of_the_hand

Thanks Patti, that's one step ahead (though my question is still unanswered) Thumb up

Because your answer describe that the 'first dorsal interosseous' is in the medical name of the muscle inside the 'mouse' at the back of the hand.

Just like the muscle inside the 'thenar' is called the 'first palmar interosseous'.


So, this implicates that my question is still unanswered... since I think there really must be some kind of a name to refer to that zone of the hand (your answer only describes the name of the muscle inside that zone of the hand) scratch

___________________________________________
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Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Patti on Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:26 pm

Manfred wrote:Hy,

here is the oldest source about the hand "mouse" I know from the respected French chirologist:

Mangin, Henri: Die Hand ein Sinnbild des Menschen", Rascher Verlag, Zürich1973.
Original title: Le Main, Portrait de l'Homme, Edition du Griffon d'Or, Paris 1947 (?).



Regards
Manfred

Thank you for this Manfred! Could you give a brief translation?

This means the earliest known reference is 1947, so far. Does Henri Mangin's book have a bibliography?

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Patti on Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:37 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
PS. I have another question: does anybody know the medical jargon (vocabulary) for the 'mouse at the back of the hand'?[/color]

Dorsal Interosseous (1 of 1-4)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorsal_interossei_of_the_hand

Thanks Patti, that's one step ahead (though my question is still unanswered) Thumb up

Because your answer describe that the 'first dorsal interosseous' is in the medical name of the muscle inside the 'mouse' at the back of the hand.

Just like the muscle inside the 'thenar' is called the 'first palmar interosseous'.


So, this implicates that my question is still unanswered... since I think there really must be some kind of a name to refer to that zone of the hand (your answer only describes the name of the muscle inside that zone of the hand) scratch


"The Growing Hand" describes the early development of these muscles and says:

"The first dorsal interosseous is composed of the two flexores breves profundi present in the first interspace, ...."

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:46 pm

Patti wrote:
"The Growing Hand" describes the early development of these muscles and says:

"The first dorsal interosseous is composed of the two flexores breves profundi present in the first interspace, ...."

Thanks again Patti, excellent: I guess that's the answer I was looking for! Thanks!
The 'handmouse' is called the 'first interspace' according the medical vocabulary.

That leaves only one question unanswered:

What is the most common daily-language synonym for the 'first interspace'?
(If there is any???)

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Re: Where is the 'mouse' of the hand hiding...???

Post  Patti on Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:55 pm

I've heard the term 'thumb-cradle'.

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