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Visions for the starting point of the Heartline

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Re: Visions for the starting point of the Heartline

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:07 pm

Manfred wrote:... But it's quite different if we read the heart line chronologically, what Cheiro doesn't and I don't know if Benham does though he shows a heart line time scale in his "Scientific hand reading...".

Hi Manfred,

When authors present a time-scale for a line, it is obvious that they read the line chronologically. Benham has indeed presented a time-scale for the heart line in his 'The Benham Book of Palmistry'.

It is very obvious that William G. Benham read the heart line in the reversed order that you are using today - though, he used it probably with exactly the same purpose that you have in mind with your approach.

Actually, I don't understand the basis your doubts about how he used his model. Can you explain your doubts? (I see no argument to put any doubt about how Benham used his timing-model for the heart line)


Nevertheles, yes, I can confirm what you described about Cheiro's work regarding this topic. Cheiro indeed talked about the same starting point for the heart line, without talking about any time scale.

However, Cheiro also used this approach beyond 'characterology', because he e.g. talks about signs resulting from influences of people. However, it is obvious that Cheiro only applies his 'system of seven' to the life line and fate line - which he obviously considered as most important in the perspective of timing.

I guess the implication of his work is that Cheiro's work doesn't support the idea that 'timing' can be applied to the heart line and the head line.


PS. Manfred, not sure what you have in mind regarding "... a great difference between the early embyonic developement and a child after birth".

These words sound a bit that you simply want to exclude the embryological argument from this discussion - via a theological statement regarding the soul....? Be aware: consciousness is by principle a matter of definition, but I think abortion laws indicate that conscious is likely to start manifesting even months before birth. I am quite sure that the 'pro-life movement' would give many arguments to confirm this!

Also, maybe even more importance:

Please be aware that the embryological observations actually provide a basis for Benham & Cheiro's innovative approaches regarding the starting point of the heart line!!!

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
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Re: Visions for the starting point of the Heartline

Post  Manfred on Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:28 pm

Dear Martijn,

about Benham:
- He shows a heart line scale but at no place an excample of use or evedence on base of a case of study.
- One more again: There are very curious excamples of heart lines in his book (Nr.: 34 - 47 in the chapter about the heart line).

It's not possible for me to repeat the same discussion - for excample about the embryonic and born child state - in all the needed depth again.

The simple question of Magda went in the direction:
What are our practical experience and way of use. Above there is my answer.

If I'm allowed to give any advice to a hand reader that is looking for it: Instead of trusting numbers, ideas or findings of someone, trust what lasts on base of your own life reading experience.

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Manfred

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Re: Visions for the starting point of the Heartline

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Nov 05, 2011 2:57 pm

Manfred wrote:about Benham
- He shows a heart line scale but at no place an excample of use or evedence on base of a case of study.
- One more again: There are very curious excamples of heart lines in his book (Nr.: 34 - 47 in the chapter about the heart line).

Manfred, what you described in the quote are just observations - but do they really matter for this topic?

I believe that it is usually quite easy to point out to elements that are not presented in a book. However, not sure that one can use that as a valid argument to support ones own view.

And yes of course: everybody is very welcome to share their experience.

But if you think that other authors (or discussion partners at this forum) have been using poor / unfair / misleading / unrealistic arguments, then I would appreciate if you try to point that out by detail.


(Sorry, I am also skepdic regarding your second argument about Benham: I don't see how Benham's drawn pictures could disqualify his 'tming'-model for the heart line.)

Anyway, I hope that my critical feedback will help you to find/formulate stronger arguments that might support your vision much more.


PS. I know your time is limited. But I wonder: do you have shared more arguments in other topics at this forum? - If so, it would be helpful to simply present a link to that topic or preferably the post where you shared your other arguments.


Thanks!

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Re: Visions for the starting point of the Heartline

Post  Patti on Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:18 pm

Manfred wrote:
If I'm allowed to give any advice to a hand reader that is looking for it: Instead of trusting numbers, ideas or findings of someone, trust what lasts on base of your own life reading experience.

Regards
Manfred

Thumbs up!

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Re: Visions for the starting point of the Heartline

Post  Manfred on Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:28 pm

Dear Matrijn,

I'm bearing your "critical" arguments very much sunny I hope you'll do it too, if I'll stop here my constibution.

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Manfred

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Re: Visions for the starting point of the Heartline

Post  Patti on Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:50 pm

Personally I think the radial side of the heart line is influenced by the movement capabilities, structure, and position preferences of the thumb and index finger in early development as well as throughout life.

The only movement that directly influences the ulnar side is the tension and movement of the little finger. There is no counter pulling or pushing from the rest of the ulna side until the wrist.

The Suwon crease is supposedly a crease that forms after birth and into very early childhood. This is a crease that appears to form radially and move toward the ulnar side to touch the heart line.

As Martijn pointed out somewhere recently, the heart line first appears radially. The hand as it develops does so in an uneven fashion so that certain parts of the hands are ahead in their development and some parts are trailing behind. This is normal. And in normally developing hands, the ulnar side, little finger and even the thumb on the radial side are last in completing development while the index to ring fingers are more advanced.

(Martijn shared this image in 2002)

Kiwihands shared the images recently of a woman whose heart line was very thin in appearance on the ulnar side of the hand. In the silhouette on the side you can see an indentation so the heart line does continue around the side.




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Re: Visions for the starting point of the Heartline

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:47 am

Bump

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Re: Visions for the starting point of the Heartline

Post  rajeevkrsharmaji on Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:44 am

Good informative discussion
Thanks!

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