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Can Thumb be called venus finger?

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Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  anand_palm on Sun Dec 11, 2011 5:52 am

Hello everybody

Is there a specific reason why thumb is denoted as will power or determination. In palmistry all other mounts are categorzied by the finger they represent or other way around. in case of thumb it is called as thumb and denoting some seperate identity. The corresponding mount below represnets venus mount wherease the thumb represents will power. If either one is right then the other one should change accordingly, which implies either mount of venus should be changed as will power mount or thumb should be changed as venus finger.

I would appreciate you comments.

Thanks
Anand


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : '?' added to topic title)

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:25 am

anand_palm wrote:Hello everybody

Is there a specific reason why thumb is denoted as will power or determination. In palmistry all other mounts are categorzied by the finger they represent or other way around. in case of thumb it is called as thumb and denoting some seperate identity. The corresponding mount below represnets venus mount wherease the thumb represents will power. If either one is right then the other one should change accordingly, which implies either mount of venus should be changed as will power mount or thumb should be changed as venus finger.

I would appreciate you comments.

Thanks
Anand



Hi Anand,
I have always thought the thumb is more like the Sun energy than the ring finger.

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Can Thumb be called venus finger

Post  anand_palm on Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:36 pm

Hello Patti

Why is that, but every book goes by calling thumb as will power, but you have mentioned that thumb can be thought of SUN finger, then what is ring finger. If we assume this, then is ring finger venus finger.

Is there any reason or is it just based on your observation and interpetation reading hands.

You know what i was just thinking, you could be right looking at the way palmistry charecterises sun mount, it is more foucessed towards art, music, aesthetics and usually venus is the one which represents it other than just sympathy ect.. Venusian qualities involve art, music, sophistication, sympathy, sex, ect...

Iam not sure about sun qualiites, sun represents luck, brilliancy, brightness, talent.

Very interesting, that means lot of the interpretation have to be changed.

Thanks
Anand

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  RishiRahul on Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:45 pm

Hi,

Which mounts are at the base of the thumb?

Venus below + the aggressive Mars on top (Rahu in Eastern; dragons head in Western).

The energy of both the above put together.

RishiRahul

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Parender on Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:03 pm

anand_palm wrote:Hello everybody

Is there a specific reason why thumb is denoted as will power or determination. In palmistry all other mounts are categorzied by the finger they represent or other way around. in case of thumb it is called as thumb and denoting some seperate identity. The corresponding mount below represnets venus mount wherease the thumb represents will power. If either one is right then the other one should change accordingly, which implies either mount of venus should be changed as will power mount or thumb should be changed as venus finger.

I would appreciate you comments.

Thanks
Anand


Hi Anand,

Good question indeed.

I think thumb cannot be called the finger of Venus.

“The thumb individualizes the man” has said D’Arpentigny decades ago and is still remarkably true, because the thumb provides the single most important indication of your character. A large part of your brain area around 4% is dedicated to controlling your thumb and 3% to control fingers.

Thumb cannot be called a finger in true sense. It has only two phalanges and all other fingers have three phalanges, by the law of average. In dermatoglyphics study too thumb is linked with sum of success or failure where separate fingers reveal distinctive features about your characteristics.

Your thumb is the most important part of your hand. Only human beings have opposable thumb. This does make you one of the most dexterous creatures on Earth because of this property.

Thumbs therefore are good indicators for what is happening in your mind. Thumb’s shape, posture, length width, bends, suppleness reveal your will power, decision–making capacity, energy level, persistence factor, your participation in life and total result as success or failure.

If you want a finger for Venus you can give this charge to little finger – the messenger of love- easily.

What do you think?

Parender Sethi




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Can Thumb be called venus finger

Post  anand_palm on Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:48 pm

Hello all

In some sense i do agree with pati the thumb represents sunenergy. Usually venus represents art, music, sex (longer ring finger in a compartive basis as researchers mention), sympathy, love ect, in that sense appollo can be more similar to venus.

also based on our traditional palmistry approach then thumb can be ctegorized like what i mentioned and rishirahul mentioned.

it also makes me think according to parinder version since thumb does not have three phalanges we cannot look at it as finger. But then going by palmistry alone we should have representation of thumb like we had for all fingers since it has a mount below it, like all other finger do we would indeed need to represent it. So how do we go about, like iam asking a simple question how do we base our representation of our fingers, let us say we go by defining from mounts then thumb should represent somethingh similar to venus and mars put togther or venus alone or mars alone or none of these. Now the natural question arises what do these mounts represent is it really venus or somethingh else.
If it is venus then patti makes a good point mentioning that ring finger represents venus. now why is it venus, one is by defintion of apollo mount it fits into what venus represents. now by definiton of science the ring finger represetns more about sex, ect.. (i guess the article is some where in martinj forum). Then what really is thumb going to be, if we exclude venus, then can we say the mount below it is not venus, somethingh else. as rishirahul mentioned mars (but still iam not sure because mars mounts does not start below the thumb) is there, but then venus is siginifcant portion there below the thumb, then is it the mount venus or somethingh else.

if we exclude and say it is not a finger, then iam not sure how we should proceed. then the complete palmistry system can be questionable.

I would appreciate your comments
Thanks
Anand









Last edited by anand_palm on Sun Dec 11, 2011 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Mistake)

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  RishiRahul on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:26 pm

anand_palm wrote:Hello all

In some sense i do agree with pati the thumb represents sunenergy. Usually venus represents art, music, sex (longer ring finger in a compartive basis as researchers mention), sympathy, love ect, in that sense appollo can be more similar to venus.
RishiRahul =Patti's right to the extent that the thumb is the leader. When we clasp our hand= it is the thumb against our other fingers, denoting its importance.

also based on our traditional palmistry approach then thumb can be ctegorized like what i mentioned and rishirahul mentioned.
RishiRahul =Not exactly. For the moment in our learning let us forget traditional palmistry and modern palmistry.
Palmistry is like a third eye (knowledge) in terms of physiognomy.


it also makes me think according to parinder version since thumb does not have three phalanges we cannot look at it as finger. But then going by palmistry alone we should have representation of thumb like we had for all fingers since it has a mount below it, like all other finger do we would indeed need to represent it. So how do we go about, like iam asking a simple question how do we base our representation of our fingers, let us say we go by defining from mounts then thumb should represent somethingh similar to venus and mars put togther or venus alone or mars alone or none of these. Now the natural question arises what do these mounts represent is it really venus or somethingh else.
If it is venus then patti makes a good point mentioning that ring finger represents venus. now why is it venus, one is by defintion of apollo mount it fits into what venus represents. now by definiton of science the ring finger represetns more about sex, ect.. (i guess the article is some where in martinj forum). Then what really is thumb going to be, if we exclude venus, then can we say the mount below it is not venus, somethingh else. as rishirahul mentioned mars (but still iam not sure because mars mounts does not start below the thumb) is there, but then venus is siginifcant portion there below the thumb, then is it the mount venus or somethingh else.
RishiRahul =What Parinder ji mentioned in Very true sense of the thumb... if you do not go to the inner trivialities he has mentioned about the phalanges, you would realise the truth.
He mentioned about phalanges of thumb being different from the other fingers, which makes the thumb stand out from the fingers.
What he has mentioned is very true.


if we exclude and say it is not a finger, then iam not sure how we should proceed. then the complete palmistry system can be questionable.
RishiRahul =Do not take the words literally. Problem occurs if you take comments Literally.
But is such a strong finger for humans (not animals), that it stands out more than other fingers.

RishiRahul =Venus and Rahu (the physically energy of Mars) forms the platform where the thumb stands...... Imagine the passion with energy= thumb.
Do not take to call the thumb equalling 'literally' with Venus + Mars.
Since you asked/wanted to know about which planet it would signify, I mentioned this as it would be the closest.
Why are you bothered about theories so much= I mean whether the thumb is a finger or not?
Pluto existed and still does; whether termed a Planet or not


I would appreciate your comments
Thanks
Anand

RishiRahul








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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:56 pm

anand_palm wrote:Hello Patti

Why is that, but every book goes by calling thumb as will power, but you have mentioned that thumb can be thought of SUN finger, then what is ring finger. If we assume this, then is ring finger venus finger.

Is there any reason or is it just based on your observation and interpetation reading hands.

You know what i was just thinking, you could be right looking at the way palmistry charecterises sun mount, it is more foucessed towards art, music, aesthetics and usually venus is the one which represents it other than just sympathy ect.. Venusian qualities involve art, music, sophistication, sympathy, sex, ect...

Iam not sure about sun qualiites, sun represents luck, brilliancy, brightness, talent.

Very interesting, that means lot of the interpretation have to be changed.

Thanks
Anand

Personally, I find applying astrological indications to the hand can be a mix of both helpful along with adding limitations.

For the ring finger, I would apply Uranus but for it's mount below I wouldn't.

The stance of the ring finger reacts quickly to sudden unexpected changes in a person's environment.

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Venusfinger

Post  Magda van Dijk-Rijneke on Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:17 pm

Hi Patty,

Did you know that the Hindus already know that the thumb is the basis of the palmistry many centuries ago? They were convinced that thumbs in itself such a clear picture of a person's character, individual willpower and energy that they then also studied separately as Thumb-reading. The thumb symbolizes the three universal qualities, will, think and feel, similarly in the chiromancy (handlines) and the chirognomy (handshapes).
Interesting point is also.....
Between the thumb and the mount of Venus is a part that is called the mount of Vulcanus.This section is the starter motor of the thumb and connects the mount of Venus (the pursuit of something), the mount of radial Mars (perseverance) and thumb (willpower). This mount is the link between create, manifest and carry out and stands for success by inspiration, passion and willpower.

With love Magda

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  RishiRahul on Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:46 pm

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:Hi Patty,

Did you know that the Hindus already know that the thumb is the basis of the palmistry many centuries ago? They were convinced that thumbs in itself such a clear picture of a person's character, individual willpower and energy that they then also studied separately as Thumb-reading. The thumb symbolizes the three universal qualities, will, think and feel, similarly in the chiromancy (handlines) and the chirognomy (handshapes).
Interesting point is also.....
Between the thumb and the mount of Venus is a part that is called the mount of Vulcanus.This section is the starter motor of the thumb and connects the mount of Venus (the pursuit of something), the mount of radial Mars (perseverance) and thumb (willpower). This mount is the link between create, manifest and carry out and stands for success by inspiration, passion and willpower.

With love Magda


Hi,

Very well explained.

RishiRahul

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:36 pm

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:Hi Patty,

Did you know that the Hindus already know that the thumb is the basis of the palmistry many centuries ago? They were convinced that thumbs in itself such a clear picture of a person's character, individual willpower and energy that they then also studied separately as Thumb-reading. The thumb symbolizes the three universal qualities, will, think and feel, similarly in the chiromancy (handlines) and the chirognomy (handshapes).
Interesting point is also.....
Between the thumb and the mount of Venus is a part that is called the mount of Vulcanus.This section is the starter motor of the thumb and connects the mount of Venus (the pursuit of something), the mount of radial Mars (perseverance) and thumb (willpower). This mount is the link between create, manifest and carry out and stands for success by inspiration, passion and willpower.

With love Magda

Hi Magda!
Thank you for sharing this. I hadn't thought about the connecting aspects or boundaries between the energies of the three different zones (thumb, upper & lower thenar) in this perspective before. Bringing Vulcan into the mix is intersting. Is it above, at or below the 'family line'?

sunny

p.s.:
I have a little booklet entitled "Your Destiny in Thumb" by R. G. Rao in my collection. I've only thumbed through and not yet actually read it.

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Lynn on Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:28 am

just a quick note anand, when I was first taught traditional palmistry over 20 years ago, thumb was called "Venus".

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Can thumb be called venus finger

Post  anand_palm on Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:44 am

Hello Lynn

Thanks for the info, i did not about that thumb was initally called as venus finger. If so why did it change. Magda insight about mount vulcanus is interesting, iam trying to find out what vulcanus means i guess is it somethingh similar to volcano. Okay i jsu seacrhed google, it says vulcan is son of jupiter and juno. But what does mount imply. if that is the case should the thumb be called vulcanus finger.

Thanks
Anand





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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Magda van Dijk-Rijneke on Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:34 pm

Hello everybody,

I do like to give you more infomation about the mount of Vulcain which I also teach my students.

Vulcan is the god of fire and blacksmith work. He manufactures weapons for the gods. Vulcan was not a beauty and could not prevent that his wife Venus was the lover of his brother Mars. That is funny because in the hand the mount of Vulcan holds between the mount of Mars-, and Venus. So Venus has two lovers around her.sunny

Location
:
The mount of Vulcan is located just below the thumb implant (under the Family Ring), between the mount of Mars and Venus, and is sometimes called the second mount of Sun. The mount of Vulcan is considered the ''starter'' of the thumb seen. This mountain symbolizes the successful result of perseverance and willpower. He is the link between the mount of Venus (the pursuit of something), the mount of radial Mars (perseverance) and the Thumb (willpower).


Features:

Self-preservation, self-control, commitment, pleasure, success, recognition, promotion, vitality, energy, manifest etc..

Have you raised a good mount of Vulcan, than your outlook on life is harmonious.



The will consist of three universal qualities that are symbolically the thumb to see.:
1) Thumbtop - Will (energy, momentum, perseverance, determination, decisiveness, initiative
, etc.)
2) Middle part of the thumb - Thinking (skills, concentration, self discipline, motivation, self-control
, efficiency, etc.)
3) Lower part of the thumb, the mounts of the Thumb - Feeling (inspiration, enthusiasm, motivation
, stability, accountability, etc.)


These three qualities or parts of the thumb, we need to exercise our will. Therefore, the entire thumb has his own name. Which may also be Pollux because every finger or mountain has also his own Roman name. So that's more logical. than to give the thumb another name.



With love Magda

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Anil Anand on Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:17 am

I believe thumb is a combination of two phalanges Dragon Head and Dragon Tail, two planets discussed in astrology. Combination of these two represents Venus.

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Magda van Dijk-Rijneke on Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:11 pm

Hello Anil Anand,

We don't use astrology in chirology. We only have the same names. In modern palmistry, the names of Roman gods also used. These represent an archetype or character trait while taking every mountain or finger with that name reflects the corresponding trait.

The entire movable part of the thumb can held before the hand. The thumb is opposable. The thumb with two phalanges can't do that. Therefore, the tumb is the ruler of the hand.
Nowadays we use the 3 parts of the thumb including the thumb-mountains (Venus Mars and Vulcain also the mount of Earth). Because our willpower has more diciplines as I have write before. We have use them all before we can do something.

Warm regards

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Lynn on Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:32 am

Magda, thanks for telling us about Vulcan. It reminds me of Mr Spock on "Star Trek", from planet Vulcan :-) Spock did not 'do' emotion, everything had to be logical. That fits with my understanding of 2nd phalanx of thumb being about logic - how we pull our logic and justification together before projecting it out and asserting our will on the world (top phalanx). Thanks!

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  anand_palm on Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:23 pm

Hello Magda, Lynn

Are u saying the vulcan is the middle phalanx of the thumb not the mount.

Thanks
Anand

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Lynn on Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:50 pm

Anand, Magda was talking about the mount just below the family ring. Vulcan made me think of the logic quality of the lower phalanx. (You said middle phalanx, but the thumb has only two phalanges.)

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:44 am

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:Hello Anil Anand,

We don't use astrology in chirology. We only have the same names. In modern palmistry, the names of Roman gods also used. These represent an archetype or character trait while taking every mountain or finger with that name reflects the corresponding trait.

The entire movable part of the thumb can held before the hand. The thumb is opposable. The thumb with two phalanges can't do that. Therefore, the tumb is the ruler of the hand.
Nowadays we use the 3 parts of the thumb including the thumb-mountains (Venus Mars and Vulcain also the mount of Earth). Because our willpower has more diciplines as I have write before. We have use them all before we can do something.

Warm regards

Hi Magda,

I fully support your view that chirology (hand reading) doesn't need astrology.

But your suggestion makes me wonder: since the planet vulcan was never confirmed to exist at all - after it's existance was hypothesed by a French mathematician (but in time it became obvious that his theory was wrong about it's existance between the planet mercury and the sun, because it was never confirmed by observations).

scratch Magda... what made you decide to adopt/accept this 'myth' in the perspective of chirology?




I would prefer to approach this matter as follows:

Mr Spock from the science fiction series 'Star Trek' became known for his vulcan gesture. But interestingly, if we start studying this gesture we can again see how even in this gesture 'fiction' became mixed with reality. Because from the perspective of chirology one could say that this gesture suggests that the energy from vulcan became located in the empty space between the sun and saturn. But maybe... the gesture would have made much more sense if it had manifested as the gesture made by the woman in the picture below...! Very Happy

(My thought is: just like chirology doesn't need astrology, chirology probably doesn't need the 'myth' called vulcan either)




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sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:09 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:Hello Anil Anand,

We don't use astrology in chirology. We only have the same names. In modern palmistry, the names of Roman gods also used. These represent an archetype or character trait while taking every mountain or finger with that name reflects the corresponding trait.

The entire movable part of the thumb can held before the hand. The thumb is opposable. The thumb with two phalanges can't do that. Therefore, the tumb is the ruler of the hand.
Nowadays we use the 3 parts of the thumb including the thumb-mountains (Venus Mars and Vulcain also the mount of Earth). Because our willpower has more diciplines as I have write before. We have use them all before we can do something.

Warm regards

Hi Magda,

I fully support your view that chirology (hand reading) doesn't need astrology.

But your suggestion makes me wonder: since the planet vulcan was never confirmed to exist at all - after it's existance was hypothesed by a French mathematician (but in time it became obvious that his theory was wrong about it's existance between the planet mercury and the sun, because it was never confirmed by observations).

scratch Magda... what made you decide to adopt/accept this 'myth' in the perspective of chirology?




I would prefer to approach this matter as follows:

Mr Spock from the science fiction series 'Star Trek' became known for his vulcan gesture. But interestingly, if we start studying this gesture we can again see how even in this gesture 'fiction' became mixed with reality. Because from the perspective of chirology one could say that this gesture suggests that the energy from vulcan became located in the empty space between the sun and saturn. But maybe... the gesture would have made much more sense if it had manifested as the gesture made by the woman in the picture below...! Very Happy

(My thought is: just like chirology doesn't need astrology, chirology probably doesn't need the 'myth' called vulcan either)




Hi Martijn,
Not to change the subject from the thumb, but your comment about not applying mythological characteristics to hand features reminded me of how I've noticed you and others have freely adopted the mythological name of Persephone for a particular type of head line. Where is the difference?

Persephone:

or

or


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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:35 am

Patti wrote:
Hi Martijn,
Not to change the subject from the thumb, but your comment about not applying mythological characteristics to hand features reminded me of how I've noticed you and others have freely adopted the mythological name of Persephone for a particular type of head line. Where is the difference?

Hi Patti,

First of all, I was not directly talking about the role of 'mythology', I only refered to the fact that the existence of the planet 'vulcan' is a myth.

But I can explain my point a little bit more explicitely:

Since all palmar zones have traditionally been connected with the planets in our solar system, and these planets are known as physical realities which influence life on planet earth - via e.g. warmth, light, gravity, atmospheric substances, etc.

Therefore I think it is obvious that the use of 'vulcan' implicates... a huge step outside the planet-model!


By the way, Richard Unger introduced the name 'persephone headline' and where I have used that name I think I have always refered to Richard's work. But, again... where I used the word 'myth' in my comment to Magda's suggestion, I wasn't talking about mythology at all.

So I think there is a clear difference, e.g. because the hand lines have in the western approach traditionally been linked with multiple types of perspectives ... the planets are just one of those perspectives.

Makes sense now?

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sunny

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:35 pm

Thanks for explaining Martijn.
Then it's about Vulcan as a mythological god rather than Vulcan as a planet. I don't think Magda is referring to it as a planet in our solar system but as an archetype. As a god Vulcan is only a personification of a personality type or an energy. i.e. Fire.



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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Magda van Dijk-Rijneke on Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:49 pm

Hi Patty,

Thanks for hitting the nail on the head, as we say in Dutch!

I only was refering to Vulcan as a archetype and not some planet. As I said before to me opinion astrology has nothing to do with palmistry. In a english book of Edward Cambell you find some information about the mount of Vulcan.

Warm regards

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:08 pm

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:Hi Patty,

Thanks for hitting the nail on the head, as we say in Dutch!

I only was refering to Vulcan as a archetype and not some planet. As I said before to me opinion astrology has nothing to do with palmistry. In a english book of Edward Cambell you find some information about the mount of Vulcan.

Warm regards

Hi Magda,
I couldn't find Vulcan in the index of the one book I have of Ed's "The Encyclopedia of Palmistry".

Have you read the books of Yael Haft-Pomrock? She uses a mythological system.

I noticed in Bevy's book "Stars in Your Hands", she labels the lower phalange of the thumb and the thenar mount as the Sun. At least confirming a fiery energy. See attached.


Patti

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