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Can Thumb be called venus finger?

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Manfred on Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:49 pm

Hy,

I work with both expressions for the ring finger: Sun and Venus.

A historical excurse: In the oldest European chiromancy books they use Sun never Apollon.

If we follow the meaning of Mars: The fighting arm of the Sun, decision maker, will force, we find that this fit in the thumb. Uranus doesn't fit.

Addition: Dear Martijn, it seems that Aristoteles influenced with his "elements" the astrology of those early days. The same with Ptolomeus, though he only mentioned the qualities warm, wet, dry... in his important "Tetrabiblos".

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:15 pm

anand_palm wrote:Hello MAgda

i was also thinking the ring should be venus. because venus qualities are more on art and creativity and sun qualities are different.

Thanks
Anand

Hello Anand,

Above all 'planetary' considerations, the ring finger is usually much more dominant in the hands of males - compared to the hands of females (e.g. UK professor John Manning has described this in his '2D:4D digit ratio' work).

And since 'venus' is traditionally been described as a female-like planet... I think it becomes obvious that those who have started associating the ring finger with the planet 'venus', have very likely made a fundamental mistake!!


PS. Apollo (a.k.a. God of the light & sun) was known as the God of: "music, poetry, plague, oracles, sun, medicine, light and knowledge", while Venus became known as the God of: "love, beauty, sex, fertility, prosperity and military victory".

So, I am sorry Anand... contrary to your conclusion, venus is not about "art and creativity" at all, and instead: apollo (sun) does represent those qualities much more!!

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:20 am

Venus is often associated with the arts, especially in astrology books. In the book "An Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Traditional Symbols" Venus is called (among other things) the Creative Mother.

In the Tarot, in particular the Rider Waite deck, Venus is depicted in the Empress and is known not only for fertility but for creativity. Fertility is creativity.

A thought came to mind as I was thumbing through my books, in astrology just like in palmistry, combinations are important. Venus is influenced by what house and sign it's found in and what other astral influences alter it's essence.

Regardless if it's 'male energy' influencing the length of the ring finger, generally both men and women come with one in each hand so to associate it more to one sex than the other doesn't seem logical. You may want to investigate which planet/archetype/god/goddess rules hormones.

I found this article online that relates Uranus to hormones. Scroll down to the area titled "clinical research".
Uranus is still my preference for the ring finger if I were to give it another name.

<edit> further research shows there's as much disagreement there as here Laughing Neptune is often given the rulership of hormones but so is Pluto and the Moon as well as others...

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  RishiRahul on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:28 am

Hi,

But Sun cannot alone signify creativity without the influence of Venus. Can it?

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Manfred on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:44 am

Hy,

if we take first of all classical astrology it's more easy:

- There's no Apollon, then if ever we have to use Sun.
- The "day" planets Jupiter, Saturn, Sun, belong to the finger and finger mounts.
- The "night" planets Mars, Moon and Venus are in the palm.
- Mercury perigrin or both "night" and "day" planet belongs to the little finger / mount.

If we work with Venus we have to think of that Venus has two different belongings:
- To Taurus - the thenar
- To aesthetic / partnership Libra - that is why I sometimes additionally use for the ring finger.

Integrating the "new" planets Uranus, Neptun, Pluto would be another story.
But, Patty, Uranus is the ruler of Aquarius, the opposite of Lion. In this way there is a connection with the Sun, the ruler of Lion.
But I wouldn't use in general Uranus for the ring finger, may be, if ever, the upper phalanx of the ring finger for the 11th (Aquarius) house.

I'm looking at the ring finger for patnership belongings, willingness for meeting, partnership, balancing. Uranus signal beneath others independence.

Futher I agree Patty here very much: "...in astrology just like in palmistry, combinations are important. Venus is influenced by what house and sign it's found in and what other astral influences alter it's essence."

Regards
Manfred


Last edited by Manfred on Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:33 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:10 pm


scratch ... I think this topic illustrates that in practice it is hardly possible to discuss the role of 'mythology' without refering to the planets & astrology.

Also, in this perspective we get confronted with a situation where anybody appears to be able to disagree about anything - depending on which sources one is using.

For example:

So far, in this topic 'creativity' was associated with the sun (planet) / apollo (mythology) and venus... but I am sure that one could likewisely argue that 'creativity' can be associated to the moon as well.


I think this shows that there are no uniquely fixed concepts regarding how planets & mythologies represent specified human qualities.

And I don't see how the argument for the need to 'combine' things could really become helpfull in this matter.... because this argument actually represents a direct road into the swamp of an endless pool of concepts and possibilities that are offered by astrology & mythology.

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Manfred on Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:51 pm

Dear Martijn,

as we know I don't share with you your opinion about astrology, specially why "....this shows that there are no uniquely fixed concepts regarding how planets & mythologies represent specified human qualities."

I also don't understand why Moon should stand for "creativity"? If there is any link between the two subjects I would follow the classics and choose imagination or emotionality for it.

It would be shurely hard or make no sense to discuss astropalmistry details here, because even in the beginning we should have to go into details and to clear up astrologically basics....but then logically no one should ask me for further astrologically details.

Regards
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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:32 pm

Manfred wrote:Dear Martijn,

...I also don't understand why Moon should stand for "creativity"? If there is any link between the two subjects I would follow the classics and choose imagination or emotionality for it.

Hi Manfred,

Yes, actually... you mentioned 'imagination', but have you considered it's role in the process called 'creativity'? (For, one could wonder: is 'creativity' possible at all when there is no 'imagination?)

From the field of hand reading I can actually explain this with quite a few examples from the literature:

- At the Dutch Antropodynamica the moon (luna) is known to be associated with e.g. the concepts: 'conceptional creativity' & 'imagination'.

- Also confirmed Ed Campbell's Encyclopedia of Palmistry on page 85:

"Luna / the mount of Moon

... The mount relates to the unconscious, creative powers, imagination, psyche, intuition, travel, and desire for freedom and change."


- You can also try to understand this in the perspective of the word 'lunatic' - which refers to how in a mentally ill person the 'imaginary powers' can deterioriate into illusionairy perceptions when phantasy is no longer in touch with reality.

Sprong e.g. described how an overdeveloped luna may manifest via 'out of control creativity'.


And I could add: in mythology Luna is known as the twin-sister of Apollo, so this could explain why both act out their 'creativity' in a completely different manner: via art (Apollo) and via dreaming & traveling.


Manfred, does this answer your question?

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:54 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:

And I could add: in mythology Luna is known as the twin-sister of Apollo, so this could explain why both act out their 'creativity' in a completely different manner: via art (Apollo) and via dreaming & traveling.

I think you've answered your own argument here. It isn't the word or idea of being creative that is assigned to a single, solitary entity, but it is the manner in which the energy is expressed. This is the importance of combination. The moon's creativity is more related to dreams, visions, illusions, imagination and the psyche. The sun's creativity is more related to growth and vitality and Venusian creativity is expressed through the inspiration of beauty, love and romance.

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:17 pm

Manfred wrote:
But, Patty, Uranus is the ruler of Aquarius, the opposite of Lion. In this way there is a connection with the Sun, the ruler of Lion.
But I wouldn't use in general Uranus for the ring finger, may be, if ever, the upper phalanx of the ring finger for the 11th (Aquarius) house.

I'm looking at the ring finger for patnership belongings, willingness for meeting, partnership, balancing. Uranus signal beneath others independence.

Regards
Manfred

Hi Manfred,

I see Uranus as the planet of change and the unexpected. I remember a local published astrologer pointing out that Uranus is the only energy that can break up the rigid, concrete nature of Saturn. The ring finger, especially on women, will bend and want to stay bent (inward to palm) when their owners are faced with situations that threaten their comfort zone or force them to make changes. Particularly in their personal or work environments.

Perhaps this is just a lack of a needed extra testosterone boost to build their confidence to be more aggressive and risk taking and stand up for themselves rather than bend under adversity.

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:43 pm

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:

And I could add: in mythology Luna is known as the twin-sister of Apollo, so this could explain why both act out their 'creativity' in a completely different manner: via art (Apollo) and via dreaming & traveling.

I think you've answered your own argument here. It isn't the word or idea of being creative that is assigned to a single, solitary entity, but it is the manner in which the energy is expressed. This is the importance of combination. The moon's creativity is more related to dreams, visions, illusions, imagination and the psyche. The sun's creativity is more related to growth and vitality and Venusian creativity is expressed through the inspiration of beauty, love and romance.

Well Patti... I am not sure what 'argument' of min you exactly have in mind - but I think you got confused, because what I described sort of implicates that one can project the concept of 'creativity' into all aspects of the hand - depending on how one defines 'creativity'!

By the way, you probably know as well that the concept of 'creativity' is also known to represent a typical component to be included in a Barnum-reading.

So, basically... I could describe my fundamental problem with the use of mythology as follows: the nature of mythology shows itself why concepts taken from mythology are not suitable for 'reality testing'.

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:39 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:

And I could add: in mythology Luna is known as the twin-sister of Apollo, so this could explain why both act out their 'creativity' in a completely different manner: via art (Apollo) and via dreaming & traveling.

I think you've answered your own argument here. It isn't the word or idea of being creative that is assigned to a single, solitary entity, but it is the manner in which the energy is expressed. This is the importance of combination. The moon's creativity is more related to dreams, visions, illusions, imagination and the psyche. The sun's creativity is more related to growth and vitality and Venusian creativity is expressed through the inspiration of beauty, love and romance.

Well Patti... I am not sure what 'argument' of min you exactly have in mind - but I think you got confused, because what I described sort of implicates that one can project the concept of 'creativity' into all aspects of the hand - depending on how one defines 'creativity'!

By the way, you probably know as well that the concept of 'creativity' is also known to represent a typical component to be included in a Barnum-reading.

So, basically... I could describe my fundamental problem with the use of mythology as follows: the nature of mythology shows itself why concepts taken from mythology are not suitable for 'reality testing'.

Although, I wasn't applying the Barnum theory, yes the concept of creativity can be injected into all aspects of the hands. Creativity is the action. What motivates it and how it is carried out are the variable factors. The human hand is the bodies' main tool for physical creative expression.

As I said earlier, I straddle both worlds here. I understand the need and use of analogies to express the energetics of hand features. Lynn also pointed out, coded references don't trigger ideas in the same way as symbols. At the same time, I totally recognize the misconceptions and miscommunications because of the different interpretations of these symbols. Like Manfred said, first we'd have to start with an understanding of the basics - so that we are on the same page, so to speak.

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:37 pm

Patti wrote:... Like Manfred said, first we'd have to start with an understanding of the basics - so that we are on the same page, so to speak.

thinking ... I am not sure what 'basics' you are talking about? Where would your focuss regarding 'the basics' be: astrology?, mythology?, or maybe both?

Manfred talked about 'astrologically basics' - I think his suggestion implicates that a historical study of the basics in astrology would be required, but I even dare to question whether this will work... because such an approach would confront us with the issue of how language should be understood in the perspective of time.

Patti, though I would love to see a study on this... I think the outcome might not help us beyond my observation that astrology & mythology were never broadly accepted as a paradigma - historically both phenomena have always been a matter of speculation and belief.

Instead, a scientific approach brings us directly beyond those borders.


PS. In this perspective I would like to point out that the concept of 'Multi-Perspective Palm Reading' that I developed earlier this year, answers many of the problems that we have so far discussed in this topic:

Because Multi-Perspective Palm Reading is...:
1 - ... solely focussed on well defined issues (not susceptible for Barnum-like problems);
2 - ... using a neutral vocabulary to refer to hand characteristics (not susceptible for inducing unwanted side-effects such as: suggestions, assumptions);
3 - ... describing well defined 'requirements' regarding how to find essential combinations of hand characteristics (builded on the basic assumption that hand characteristics only become truely 'significant' when they found at multiple-perspectives in the hand - I have described 7 different perspectives).

(I know this last comment of mine goes far off topic, but I think it is usefull for all of you to know that beyond my critical questions & observations, in time I have also managed to find many, many solid answers... but it requires 'thinking out of the box' and it probably also requires thinking beyond the approaches presented in the palmistry literature'!)

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
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Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Manfred on Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:48 pm

Dear Martijn,

I think the use of the word creativity in some parts is confusing.
Creativity is the meaning of a creating will power make real results. I would use this meaning for the Mount of Venus or thenar and shurely not the Mount of Moon. As I mentioned before, it shows us a mental or emotional force or mood. May be it is,if srong, the reason or source for the following cration or deed like a painting or even a journey/voyage.

Dear Patty,
I agree with your explanation of the archetyp Uranus in all points. But your excample isn't still no evidence for me that the ring finger belongs to Uranus. Additionally: Momentary constellations (transits) can shurely be shown in different ways in the hand.

By the way: I don't like stamps! - Shurely for a "scientist" or even for some astrologists hand reading and shurely PDC are pseudo-mythological or whatever sciences, subjects or whatever.

Basics of astrology: There is no need to go back to history for the basics. In the main parts we could use the internationally known books of Robert Hand, for excample: Planets in Youth. Only some parts, as about Pluto for excample, need some words in addition.

Regards
Manfred

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:06 pm

Manfred wrote:Dear Martijn,

I think the use of the word creativity in some parts is confusing.
Creativity is the meaning of a creating will power make real results. I would use this meaning for the Mount of Venus or thenar and shurely not the Mount of Moon. As I mentioned before, it shows us a mental or emotional force or mood. May be it is,if srong, the reason or source for the following cration or deed like a painting or even a journey/voyage.

Dear Patty,
I agree with your explanation of the archetyp Uranus in all points. But your excample isn't still no evidence for me that the ring finger belongs to Uranus. Additionally: Momentary constellations (transits) can shurely be shown in different ways in the hand.

By the way: I don't like stamps! - Shurely for a "scientist" or even for some astrologists hand reading and shurely PDC are pseudo-mythological or whatever sciences, subjects or whatever.

Basics of astrology: There is no need to go back to history for the basics. In the main parts we could use the internationally known books of Robert Hand, for excample: Planets in Youth. Only some parts, as about Pluto for excample, need some words in addition.

Regards
Manfred

Hi Manfred,
What do you mean by "stamps"?

I have a lot of respect for Robert Hand and have a copy of "Planets in Youth". (and a subscription to Astrodiest)

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:22 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Instead, a scientific approach brings us directly beyond those borders.


PS. In this perspective I would like to point out that the concept of 'Multi-Perspective Palm Reading' that I developed earlier this year, answers many of the problems that we have so far discussed in this topic:

Because Multi-Perspective Palm Reading is...:
1 - ... solely focussed on well defined issues (not susceptible for Barnum-like problems);
2 - ... using a neutral vocabulary to refer to hand characteristics (not susceptible for inducing unwanted side-effects such as: suggestions, assumptions);
3 - ... describing well defined 'requirements' regarding how to find essential combinations of hand characteristics (builded on the basic assumption that hand characteristics only become truely 'significant' when they found at multiple-perspectives in the hand - I have described 7 different perspectives).

(I know this last comment of mine goes far off topic, but I think it is usefull for all of you to know that beyond my critical questions & observations, in time I have also managed to find many, many solid answers... but it requires 'thinking out of the box' and it probably also requires thinking beyond the approaches presented in the palmistry literature'!)
[/color]

Hi Martijn,
I think your system is well done. It represents mostly health related features. Most of the time people looking for a reading of their hands look for insights into self that are more related to personality, preferences and life styles. (or predictions Wink )

Now, once all the correlations of how ones health affects ones lifestyle, attitude and personality have been assimilated, your collection of information will be even more useful.

Patti

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Manfred on Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:27 pm

Dear Patty,

I thought of the fixed meanings - pseudosciene, mythology and what else - of Martijn about astrology. Funny: The most serious academically scientist of the West have absolutely the same meaning about hand reading, too.

Regards
Manfred

ps.: Though "The planets in youth" is a typically astrology book of the 1970-80ies and has a little bit misleading title (you can use it also for interpretations of adults), it's shurley still helpful.

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:17 am

Manfred wrote:Dear Patty,

I thought of the fixed meanings - pseudosciene, mythology and what else - of Martijn about astrology. Funny: The most serious academically scientist of the West have absolutely the same meaning about hand reading, too.

Regards
Manfred

ps.: Though "The planets in youth" is a typically astrology book of the 1970-80ies and has a little bit misleading title (you can use it also for interpretations of adults), it's shurley still helpful.

Thank you Manfred!

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:50 am

Fred Gettings in his Fate & Prediction: An Historical Compendium of Astrology, Palmistry & Tarot, spends a considerable amount of time discussing the various planets and the fingers. Regarding Apollo for the ring finger and arts, he says after some explanation:

"The Sun in astrology relates to the purpose of the native's life, as well as to his feelings. We find, therefore, when relating palmistry to astrology, that the traditional palmistic interpretation of the finger of Apollo as an index of creativity is not reliable, and the intensity of relationships is best studied through a Mars rulership over the finger of Apollo. Creativity, both in relationships and in the arts, must be studied from those lines ruled by the Sun - the line of Heart and the line of Apollo."

And,

"It is important to understand that it is not merely Venus which attracts to the arts - it is the relationship between the triad. Venus will attract the self down into the mire of materiality, and if Jupiter is not strong enough to operate within the triad as an expansive force, then certainly the native will be involved with a sensuous, Earthy life, symbolized by Taurus. Should Jupiter be strong, then the self will wish to use Venus rather than be used by it, and the end product is usually involved with artistic expression, the most ethereal of which is music. ..."

Then some info scanned on the thumb - notice how (regardless if you agree with what he's saying) with such fluidity he combines the various energies in his explanations. This is what those of us who interpret the Tarot or Astrological charts do regularly.






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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Manfred on Fri Dec 30, 2011 6:16 am

Oh, sorry, Patty, I deleted my very long former answers Hopeless I hope you've read it. - Manfred

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:13 pm

Manfred wrote:Oh, sorry, Patty, I deleted my very long former answers Hopeless I hope you've read it. - Manfred

Oh...nooo! lol! I did read it late last night my time and I wish now I had responded! What I recall is that you referred us to more information from Gettings on a different page but I didn't have time to go look and was waiting to read it before I posted.

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:32 pm

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Instead, a scientific approach brings us directly beyond those borders.


PS. In this perspective I would like to point out that the concept of 'Multi-Perspective Palm Reading' that I developed earlier this year, answers many of the problems that we have so far discussed in this topic:

Because Multi-Perspective Palm Reading is...:
1 - ... solely focussed on well defined issues (not susceptible for Barnum-like problems);
2 - ... using a neutral vocabulary to refer to hand characteristics (not susceptible for inducing unwanted side-effects such as: suggestions, assumptions);
3 - ... describing well defined 'requirements' regarding how to find essential combinations of hand characteristics (builded on the basic assumption that hand characteristics only become truely 'significant' when they found at multiple-perspectives in the hand - I have described 7 different perspectives).

(I know this last comment of mine goes far off topic, but I think it is usefull for all of you to know that beyond my critical questions & observations, in time I have also managed to find many, many solid answers... but it requires 'thinking out of the box' and it probably also requires thinking beyond the approaches presented in the palmistry literature'!)
[/color]

Hi Martijn,
I think your system is well done. It represents mostly health related features. Most of the time people looking for a reading of their hands look for insights into self that are more related to personality, preferences and life styles. (or predictions Wink )

Now, once all the correlations of how ones health affects ones lifestyle, attitude and personality have been assimilated, your collection of information will be even more useful.

Thanks Patti, yes I have a likewise perception.

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

Martijn (admin)
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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Manfred on Sat Dec 31, 2011 2:47 pm

Dear Patty,

here for you some thoughts again. In future I’ll store my longer comments about astropalmistry.

I agree with Getting’s explanations on page 382 and 384 you put in here. I can share with him his and the traditionally interpretation of Mars and that the thumb (= Mars) is an index of the will power of personality.
Also that there is a link between the Sun of the astrologers and the finger of Apollo (better Sun or Ring finger), representing the creative self-expression and emotional awareness of the native.

On page 381 he mentioned, that the “planet of Jupiter was traditionally the ruler of that most sensitive of zodiacal signs, the Water Pisces.” – This is only one part of the fact, because Jupiter was traditionally the ruler of two signs: Sagittarius and Pisces.
In our times, after the exploration of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, most of the Western astrologers work with Jupiter only as the ruler of Sagittarius. Only some astrologers (me too) work also with the secondary rulership Jupiter/Pisces, too. Most of the contemporary astrologers work only with Neptune as the ruler of Pisces.

May be because of its reduction Getting’s count the Jupiter finger as a Water finger. I think if we follow the qualities of the elements this may only be right for some, for example the pointed “feminine” Jupiter fingers. In general I would count it as a fire finger.

I also don’t follow Getting’s planets/hand parts/fingers system all in all.
As I mentioned in the past I also wouldn’t use primary the macrocosmic Zodiac for the hand.
Here I’m following the insight that: The microcosmic and for the hand important Zodiac is that of the houses.
Because the features of the individual hands is like the result of the individual imprint of the macrocosm at the moment of the first athem.

Another problem is that a lot of interpretations we can find in the wide astrological literature are not really wrong but also not really exact. (The same in the chirological or palmistry literature, too.)

An example of something that took me a very long time to study was the core of the meaning of Scorpio or Pluto. You surely know the usual explanations about it. Most of them are only the result of his core meaning: Fixed ideas, models or inheritances.

Because of this, it is logically why Pluto/Scorpio/the 8th house belong to the “Upper Mars”, or negative Mars upon the mount of Luna. (Birla mixed the expressions +/- around.) If you read Cheiro’s explanation about this in its “Palmistry for all” you’ll find an open link between this part of the hand and Scorpio/Pluto.

Though we nearly find in the oldest of the European chiromancy scripts a link to astrology I think it still takes more knowledge and practice to come to satisfying results in the art of their combination.

With best wishes for a happy new year for you, Martijn, Lynn and all the other palmistry friends in here
Manfred

Manfred

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Join date : 2010-08-01
Location : Stuttgart, Germany

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  Patti on Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:02 pm

Manfred wrote:Dear Patty,

here for you some thoughts again. In future I’ll store my longer comments about astropalmistry.

I agree with Getting’s explanations on page 382 and 384 you put in here. I can share with him his and the traditionally interpretation of Mars and that the thumb (= Mars) is an index of the will power of personality.
Also that there is a link between the Sun of the astrologers and the finger of Apollo (better Sun or Ring finger), representing the creative self-expression and emotional awareness of the native.

On page 381 he mentioned, that the “planet of Jupiter was traditionally the ruler of that most sensitive of zodiacal signs, the Water Pisces.” – This is only one part of the fact, because Jupiter was traditionally the ruler of two signs: Sagittarius and Pisces.
In our times, after the exploration of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, most of the Western astrologers work with Jupiter only as the ruler of Sagittarius. Only some astrologers (me too) work also with the secondary rulership Jupiter/Pisces, too. Most of the contemporary astrologers work only with Neptune as the ruler of Pisces.

May be because of its reduction Getting’s count the Jupiter finger as a Water finger. I think if we follow the qualities of the elements this may only be right for some, for example the pointed “feminine” Jupiter fingers. In general I would count it as a fire finger.

I also don’t follow Getting’s planets/hand parts/fingers system all in all.
As I mentioned in the past I also wouldn’t use primary the macrocosmic Zodiac for the hand.
Here I’m following the insight that: The microcosmic and for the hand important Zodiac is that of the houses.
Because the features of the individual hands is like the result of the individual imprint of the macrocosm at the moment of the first athem.

Another problem is that a lot of interpretations we can find in the wide astrological literature are not really wrong but also not really exact. (The same in the chirological or palmistry literature, too.)

An example of something that took me a very long time to study was the core of the meaning of Scorpio or Pluto. You surely know the usual explanations about it. Most of them are only the result of his core meaning: Fixed ideas, models or inheritances.

Because of this, it is logically why Pluto/Scorpio/the 8th house belong to the “Upper Mars”, or negative Mars upon the mount of Luna. (Birla mixed the expressions +/- around.) If you read Cheiro’s explanation about this in its “Palmistry for all” you’ll find an open link between this part of the hand and Scorpio/Pluto.

Though we nearly find in the oldest of the European chiromancy scripts a link to astrology I think it still takes more knowledge and practice to come to satisfying results in the art of their combination.

With best wishes for a happy new year for you, Martijn, Lynn and all the other palmistry friends in here
Manfred

Thank you Manfred! You illustrate expertly the subtle skills of combining the various essences of the different signs, houses and planets. It takes a lot of practice and studying to get to the point that you can work with the effects of more than one rulership etc.

Regarding fingers being assigned a single element seems incorrect and I would only think of water in regards to an index finger if it were weak in comparison to the others and leaning strongly toward the thumb.

Do you have plans for your book to be published in English in the near future?

Happy New Year!


Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

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Re: Can Thumb be called venus finger?

Post  RishiRahul on Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:07 pm

Hi,

Wishing a happy New Year to all Palmists!

RishiRahul

RishiRahul

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Join date : 2011-11-22

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