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Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

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Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Upendrasingh Bhadoriya on Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:55 am

In journey of palmistry I always try to reach the root of thing. I like to read and collect the manuscripts of palmistry and astrology from difference sources. But I did find any information about “MAN SKIN” used to write the literature in ancient India. So how can I believe that statement given by Mr.‘Cheiro’ in ‘A Defense’ of his first book “Language of the Hand” as shown under. In Hindu tradition we celebrate funeral ceremony with great respect and buried or burnt or deposed of in to a holy river the body of a dead person. I have never listen or read about use of human skin used to write or paint or preserve any “Shastra”.
“It may be interesting to describe here, in few words as possible, an extremely ancient and curious book on the markings of hands, that I was allowed to use and examine during my sojourn in India. This book was one of the greatest treasures of the few Brahmans who possessed and understood it, and was jealously in one of those old cave temples that belong to the ruins of ancient Hindustan.
This strange book was made of human skin, pieced and put together in the most ingenious manner. I was of enormous size and contain hundreds of well-drawn illustration with records of how, when, and where this marks was proved correct.”
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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  nasir zuhrani on Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:25 am

Hi Mr.Upenderasingh!
Mir Bashir one of the renowned palmists of the sub continent has mentioned that he happened to see a miraculously true ancient palmistry book in an old temple of Tamil Nadu. The name of book was "Aghasthia Nari" it was written on old wooden plates. Probably Cheiro is also refering to the same book, but erroneously he believes that book was written on th human skin ( this is my presumption)

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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Ramann on Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:48 pm

nasir zuhrani wrote:Hi Mr.Upenderasingh!
Mir Bashir one of the renowned palmists of the sub continent has mentioned that he happened to see a miraculously true ancient palmistry book in an old temple of Tamil Nadu. The name of book was "Aghasthia Nari" it was written on old wooden plates.

Hello Nasir,

Greetings.

Please refer your post.Can you please elucidate where did you find the reference where Mr Bashir mentioned about the ancient palmistry book.Did you read it in some magazines or news articles or the internet?I would be pleased to know.So far I have two references to Mr Bashir's work-How to read hands-Thorsons Publishers 1957, and The Art of Hand Analysis (Indian Edition,1986,Taraporevala and Sons) and in one book by Mr Harvey Day.Had to look to relate to what you have mentioned.Could not locate any reference to this mystery book.

But yes the great Cheiro has mentioned about the book in his memoir about the human skin book in "Confessions of a Modern Palmist"

Would await your reply.

Warm Regards
Raman
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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Ramann on Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:59 pm

Hello Upendraji,

Greetings.I also could not believe as most of the facts about what the author has mentioned in the book can not be verified.Also I personally do not know of any other reference to Cheiro other than what he has written about himself in his publications.Nevertheless I still find Cheiro the most fascinating author.His books make a great read.Atleast I find them interesting.I hope western readers have taken in Cheiro's time the views presented as mystery than that of horror and dismay at the mention of human skin.

There are many instances in the said book that seem too fantastic.

Rest I guess is on the readers to judge.

Best Regards
Raman
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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Lynn on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:12 pm

We had a really long discussion about Cheiro somewhere. I did some research about him from newspapers etc. Some people thought I was being too critical and doubting. Though I am sceptical about the book on human skin, I wasn't criticising. I just presented some facts that I found. I can't find the discussion - was it here or was it on the old Palmistry International forum? Like Nasir is thinking, I wonder if maybe Cheiro saw something like the Nadi palm leaf readers and thought it was on skin?

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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Patti on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:40 pm

Manfred would probably would know if such a thing existed! But I too doubt it. Especially since Cheiro says he was not only able to observe this rare book but "use" it.

Fred Getting in The Book of the Hand writes "His ability as a palmist is legendary and so many people have testified to it that it cannot be doubted. The difficulty in assessing Cheiro is that his theory was unsound, his knowledge of the history of the subject ludircrously inaccurate, his sense of honesty sadly impaired, and his sense of importance verging on megalomania, yet he somehow contrived to be an excellent palmist, and to command the attention and respect of many great people by virtue of his abilities. --- His knowledge of the 'history' of palmistry is unusually inaccurate.."
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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  nasir zuhrani on Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:41 am

[
Hello Nasir,

Greetings.

Please refer your post.Can you please elucidate where did you find the reference where Mr Bashir mentioned about the ancient palmistry book.Did you read it in some magazines or news articles or the internet?I would be pleased to know.So far I have two references to Mr Bashir's work-How to read hands-Thorsons Publishers 1957, and The Art of Hand Analysis uhrani"]Hi Mr.Upenderasingh!
(Indian Edition,1986,Taraporevala and Sons) and in one book by Mr Harvey Day.Had to look to relate to what you have mentioned.Could not locate any reference to this mystery book.

But yes the great Cheiro has mentioned about the book in his memoir about the human skin book in "Confessions of a Modern Palmist"

Would await your reply.

Warm Regards
Raman[/quote]



Hi Mr.Raman!
Thanks for reading my post. Mir Bashir has Mentioned Aghasthia Nari in his famous Book "Ramoz-i-dust shunasi", written in urdu. He has also written 90 page separate treatise in urdu about the agasthia nari. Ironically at the moment book is dumped into a lot of books in my library ,today i will dig it out and tomorrow i will write whole fascinating story of Mir.Bashir, geting a reading from Aghsthiya Nari

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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Ramann on Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:51 pm

Hello Nasir,

Thanks for the details .Well I never knew Mir Bashir had written a book in Urdu scratch .Will be great if you can atleast translate the preface and the forward to the book.So far what I know of the books of Mr Bashir is that they are written in modern lines of palmistry.So would be great to know what idea is there in the book you mention.

Warm Regards and My best Wishes.
Thanks!
Raman
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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  nirupam221987 on Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:07 pm

Patti wrote:Manfred would probably would know if such a thing existed! But I too doubt it. Especially since Cheiro says he was not only able to observe this rare book but "use" it.

Fred Getting in The Book of the Hand writes "His ability as a palmist is legendary and so many people have testified to it that it cannot be doubted. The difficulty in assessing Cheiro is that his theory was unsound, his knowledge of the history of the subject ludircrously inaccurate, his sense of honesty sadly impaired, and his sense of importance verging on megalomania, yet he somehow contrived to be an excellent palmist, and to command the attention and respect of many great people by virtue of his abilities. --- His knowledge of the 'history' of palmistry is unusually inaccurate.."

Hello Pattiji
by any chance cheiro's megalomania was related to his dual head line???

Thanks
Nirupam

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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Patti on Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:11 pm

nirupam221987 wrote:
Patti wrote:Manfred would probably would know if such a thing existed! But I too doubt it. Especially since Cheiro says he was not only able to observe this rare book but "use" it.

Fred Getting in The Book of the Hand writes "His ability as a palmist is legendary and so many people have testified to it that it cannot be doubted. The difficulty in assessing Cheiro is that his theory was unsound, his knowledge of the history of the subject ludircrously inaccurate, his sense of honesty sadly impaired, and his sense of importance verging on megalomania, yet he somehow contrived to be an excellent palmist, and to command the attention and respect of many great people by virtue of his abilities. --- His knowledge of the 'history' of palmistry is unusually inaccurate.."

Hello Pattiji
by any chance cheiro's megalomania was related to his dual head line???

Thanks
Nirupam

http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t39-the-hand-of-cheiro-the-most-famous-palmist-of-all-times

Maybe the head line rising so high up to the index finger, among other things.
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Any reference tp Cheiros Left Hand

Post  Ramann on Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:16 pm

Hello Patti,

Any reference to Cheiro's left hand anywhere?Or does it exist in prints anywhere?

Regards
Raman
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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Manfred on Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:47 pm

Hy,

I don't know if that book of skin really exists. I think Cheiro wrote that it was a treasure kept by some Bahmans and that he only was allowed to study it.

Cheiro had a lot of fantasy and was a great story teller. Therefore I wouldn't count every word as pure truth, but I still respect him as a giant in his art and time.

Regards
Manfred

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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  watchingsky on Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:35 am

Those who are skeptical of Cheiro should not study an occult science. Books on Human skin, Animal hide, Palm leaves were used for preserving many secret texts in India in ancient times. A story-teller need not be a liar.

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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:16 am

watchingsky wrote:Those who are skeptical of Cheiro should not study an occult science. Books on Human skin, Animal hide, Palm leaves were used for preserving many secret texts in India in ancient times. A story-teller need not be a liar.

Hello Watchingsky,

Unfortunately, many palmists are unaware of Cheiro's rich history of business-related ventures, varying form his work in a theatrical company (when he arrived in the US), being involved as a dealer in a pretentious champagne enterprise (France), owner of a newspaper enterprise, and his activities as a stock trader.

A few reports about Cheiro's life from the Museum of London:
http://www.mymuseumoflondon.org.uk/blogs/blog/2010/12/
http://100yearsagotoday.blogspot.nl/2009/01/jan-7-1909-thursday.html

Not to forget, Cheiro was confronted in the year 1909 with serious accusations of fraud ... resulting in reports that he had become a fugitive - not taking any responsibility for the results of his actions, etc.


Cheiro was most of all a seer - though many of his predictions turn out to be false and/or never became true. Though his fame became widely noticed his influence in the 'occult sciences' was sort of limited to his fame itself. Because his contributions to the development of the occult sciences can not be compared to for example the in depth works of Madame Blavatsky & Rudolf Steiner.

So I would prefer to describe Cheiro as a controversial '(oc)cult-figure' who's words can simply not be trusted - because Cheiro has manifested himself way too much as a theatrical business man, who sort of build his own statute with self-made stories.

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sunny

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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Manfred on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:15 pm

Hy Martijn,

I agree with you in all words. One concrete excample:

Cheiro wrote about his first steps in plamistry in one of his biographies. He wrote, that he bought at a railway station the oldest German chiromancy book of J. Hartlieb "Die Kunst Chiromantia", first printed in the 15th century. He further wrote that he learned important things of that.
This book was never translated in English until today. We discussed it here before. It's even very hard for a German to understand what Hartlieb means, because it is written in a kind of old German.

Regards
Manfred

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Re: Fact about Indian palmistry used by other.

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:18 pm


Hi Manfred,

Thanks for adding that example.

(Yes, I remember that you had pointed this out a few years ago)


Thumb up

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