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Vedic Pamistry

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:05 pm


Thanks Manfred!! Thumbs up!


I just read a little bit further through Lynn's document, and found that we are actually talking about.... an aspect of the 'The Sacret Laws of the Aryas'!!

The full perspective is described in this book (1882):
'The Sacred Laws of the Aryas Part II: The Sacred Books of the East Part Fourteen'
http://books.google.com/books?id=jj2Y5c5_O2wC

... by the way, the word 'palmistry' (mentioned together with 'astrology') is mentioned in these Vâsishtha Dharmasâstra writings exactly once - only in the chapter 'Ascetic' (page 48)!


I think it is also interesting to notice that the word 'astrology' is mentioned in a likewise perspective in the Baudhâyana Dharmasâstra (page 220) in the chapter 'Penances':

"16. (Viz.) gambling, performing incantations, subsisting by gleaning corn through one that does not perform an Agnihotra, subsisting by alms after one has finished one's studentship, living, after that has been finished, longer than four month's in the house of one's teacher, and teaching such a (person who has finished his studentship) gaining ones livelihood by astrology and so fort."

(I am sure that 'palmistry' belongs to the 'and so fort', and could have been mentioned here as well)


PS. thinking It's now for me actually very strange to see that Stalin raised this problem regarding an issue that appears to be a part of the Vedic Sacred Laws of the Aryas.

For... 'laws' describe the forbidden!!

lol!


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  sv-b on Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:31 pm

Hello martijn, Smile

you are not seemed to understand with open mind what i explain. Indeed, every religion in this world are constructed based on laws and principle. Incase if anyone make fun of it, it appears to be offense. but, you make fun of hinduism and their practices without understanding it. The founder of the palmistry were indian sages whom you make fun of. The scriptures of Veda and divinations were the contribution of indian ascetics. But, without being grateful to them, you keep speaking yourself with fixed ideas. Let it not end with inter-religious arguments. because, I know some forum where peoples discuss exclusively lustful quotes of bible. But, i never mocked at christians and their divine scriptures. but, christopher and other westerns cannot understand the truth with their closed minds and fixed ideas. But, my arguements are only to the people who have rational mind to focus on truths.

.. Smile

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  Manfred on Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:35 pm

Dear Martijn,

thank you for the infomation that the passages are from 'The Sacret Laws of the Aryas', whenever they are and from whom they have been really written.

Stalin: Be for shure that we very respect the Vedic treasure and culture.

Regards
Manfred

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:55 pm

stalin.v wrote:Hello martijn, Smile

you are not seemed to understand with open mind what i explain. Indeed, every religion in this world are constructed based on laws and principle. Incase if anyone make fun of it, it appears to be offense. but, you make fun of hinduism and their practices without understanding it. The founder of the palmistry were indian sages whom you make fun of. ...

Dear Stalin, where did I make fun of Hinduism???

Sorry, I never meant to make fun of Hinduism, so I am 100% sure that somewhere you misunderstood my words! Let me explain...


My fun is only related to your efforts regarding the use of one single word: the word 'forbidden'. You've described the use of that word as 'extremely wrong' in the perspective of the life of an ascetic.

And I have expressed that I can understand you point from a philosophical point of view!!


But in my latest comment I also notified that this actually becomes quite funny in the perspective of the fact that we are talking about a Vedic law!!
Because 'laws' in general describe what is 'right' and what is 'wrong', and obviously the ascetic law describes what accoring the Vedic principles an ascetic can do...

... and what an ascetic should not do!


And therefore I think it is quite 'fair' how Gettings & Jones used the word 'forbidden' ... according the translationsdescribed in the book 'The Sacred Laws of the Aryas' (1882)!


Stalin, I never made fun of Hinduism!! (And I think Manfred just confirmed that!)
I only made fun with your problem regarding one single word!


Stalin, my apologies for if there was any misunderstading! wave

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  sv-b on Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:09 pm

Yes martijn, you are right. I was bit misunderstood with a single 'word' forbidden and made a unnecessary problem through out this discussion. My sincere apologise. And really wondering your patience. Lynn was correct by saying the meaning. but, i interpreted it as "forsaken". sorry for my misunderstandings. Really you have great tolerance in dealing me through out the discussion. Smile scratch Yes, christopher has given right review in this particular aspect...

However, The reference given by manfred is arguable as he quotes the word "betray" in his evidences. Hence, my arguements could be more or less taken into consideration and it falls on the evidence given by manfred. Hope, peoples wont repeat writing that ascetics are "betrayed".


Last edited by stalin.v on Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:01 pm


Okay Stalin, no problem at all... apologies accepted!! Thumb up

The discussion became very usefull because we now at least know where 'palmistry' was first menitoned in the Vedas!!


Dear Upendrasingh Bhadoriya, Lynn, Manfred & Stalin... thank you all for you input!!

Thumbs up!

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  Lynn on Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:30 pm

Your apology is really appreciated stalin, thanks.
I think we all agree it is good to know that the earliest known writings about palmistry stem from the Vedic scriptures dating back 4000 years.
as Christopher says ..."This is possibly the earliest written mentions of the practice of handreading from anywhere in the world.....and lends supports to the widely held assertion that all traditions of handreading stemmed originally from India."

Of course stalin if you know for sure that older manuscripts exist somewhere which prove an earlier date, that would be exciting news for "Handreading History".
wave

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  sv-b on Thu Oct 28, 2010 10:28 am

Hi lynn , Smile

The known oldest script in the world is dated around 26,450b.c in sanskrit language as evidenced by kalph vigraha and the script attached with it. but, sanskrit does not have independent alphabet of it's own.(it may be happened because of the existed preserved evidence) .

The ancient linguistics has transmitted the knowledge generation after generation till the gupta period. During the gupta period, Vedic scripts were written. The most ancient scripts were listed in wikepedia link, is available , that is of sanskrit scripts are said to be written around 2000b.c old, as similarly said by christopher in related to palmistry. Tamil scripts were found to be 2500 b.c old. However, Research on epic Ramayana, and it's history sheds the light on origin of palmistry more older than the claim of christopher. Archeological research and calculation of star constellation in astrology shows that the history of King.Ram, existed around 5000b.c. Wikepedia link claims that the period of ram is between 9000B.C. -5000B.C in this context . It is said to be that The epic. Ramayana was written by sage.valmiki around 400b.c. some claims that sage.valmiki was the contemporary of ram. Though it is sure that events of ramayana occured prior to mahabharatha. Hence, it was all happened at last epoch of hindu. Hence. before the period of 3000B.C.

For sure, the character in mahabharatha called sahadeva, has contributed in many indian divination . some claims, he is the first person founded the 9planets of solar orbit and formed the indian astrology. But, Ramayana, prior to mahabharatha, has notes on palmistry and the body marking divination. Hence, It should be noted that The practice of palmistry was existed in india, before 5000b.c as concerned by the available hindu literatures. However, Before come to the conclusion, Researchers certainly need deep knowledge in the history of ramayana and it's epic and other archeological findings of india.

- Regards, stalin.v

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  chakraborty on Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:30 am

The origin/ dates of different Sanskrit books are generally calculated by astronomical clues given in the texts. Like mention of Sun at particular constellation during equinoxes can be used by taking the precession rates and back calculating. So, many Indologists with strong background in Sanskrit & astronomy have calculated the Date of Kurukshetra war - (which is a part of Epic Mahabharata) - to be around 3102 BC. Ramayana is of earlier epoch...it is mentioned in Mahabharata that 28th Descendant of Rama was present in the Kurukshetra war. (Indians feel that life expectancy in those days were much higher than present age). Please note that written versions came much later & may have been re-written at later times. This can be confirmed by the type of words/sentence configuration.

The different Purana ( Old narratives - History interwoven with simile's for common folks) also mention Palmistry. Like Parvati (daughter of Himalaya - king of Parvats- hence Parvati) was desirous of getting married to Shiva. Narada Muni checked Parvati's hand at the request of Himalaya & his wife. Narada described, in a typical manner - how Parvati's husband would look like & his background.

So, there are enough anecdotes about palmistry in India. However, most of us have forgotten the wisdom. Few people still follow the old methodology and seen them giving very accurate event-based description (Typical of Indian Palmistry). However, these people guard their source of their knowledge like a tiger. And some of these are oral instructions - not written.

regards

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  Upendrasingh Bhadoriya on Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:52 am

Respected Chakrabortyji
In India we believe in Fact “तथ्य” not in evidence “प्रमाण”. Krishna came in and done his job nicely. Still if some body is following “The Geeta” he gets results. It dose not make any different to Geeta whether it is told by Lord Krishna @ 3102 BC or 5114 BC Fact remain unchanged. We have never bother about time and evidence, we are follower of the truth whether it comes from East or West it does not make any different to us.
What we found in our holy books is only some part or uses of physiognomy, is not a text book of it. In our culture we taught verbally by our Masters or Rishies.
I would like to quote a Doha from Shree Ramcharit Manas
जोगी जटिल अकाम मन , नगन अमंगल वेष I अस स्वामी एहि कहँ मिलहि, परी हस्त अस रेख II
Shree Ramcharit Manas which is known as hindi “Bhavanuvad” (translation which is true to spirit of the original though not necessarily to the letter.) of Valmiki Ramayana. As per one believe Valmiki Ramayana was written before Lors Rama. And mammoth was described in it and existence of mammoth possibly 150,000 years old. Ok by the way still we have enough palmistry and astrology to sort out our curiosity in better way than any systems.
Why our Indian palmistry it different than other system ? only one reason is their we people ask more question about our relatives, our surrounding and our way to get almighty(Moksha). There is no other system, which give the answer of these.
There is most known quotation “ Desh aur Kaal” country and time is effective factors for palmistry and astrology.
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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  chakraborty on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:12 am

Respected Bhadoriya-ji,

Fact & Evidence are two sides of a coin.

To users of palmistry - Fact is necessary. It's timeline (who wrote it / when) is not necessary for practical application.

For researchers in the field, when arguing among themselves, timeline & source matters. Also, the same gives a pattern on evolution of a field.

But when viewed in a larger scale, both the sides of the coin is necessary. The reason is simple. Many a times, we see efforts to impose one school of thought over another. At those times, history helps to keep our feet on ground.

regards

Chakraborty

PS.. Pl. drop the pre-fix & call me Chakraborty only.....

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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  Upendrasingh Bhadoriya on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:40 am

OK Chakraborty
Researcher and practitioner???
Whenever we know that our scholars and Muni has put their own knowledge in name of Shiva-parvati catechism or Guru-shishya catechism and they have not put their name or place. It is very difficult to know it. And simultaneously if some one got some information of era and name very next moment other will put his own opinion that similar writer was also found in other time in some other place has also done alike work.
Sorry to say it is wastage of time and energy. If you go to read recent history of even western palmistry you will find lot of discrepancy about many well known palmists. Hence I have told “फिर तो मर्ज़ी आपकी” .
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Re: Vedic Pamistry

Post  chakraborty on Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:02 am

Respected Bhadoriya-ji,

I saw here some discussion where Martijn & Patti was discussing about the length of life line and related observations. It appeared to me that the discussion is more about definition / citing different authorities. Even papers by physicians, Korean Researchers etc.. (who may not be related to palmistry) was discussed in great depth. This gives a glimpse of some research in this field.

In India, as far as palmistry goes, we do not need such discussion. We know that Palmistry was there & will remain here. We are happy to learn whatever we could find so that we can help someway / someone.

But for different persons in the forum, they need not share this view point. Hence, Stalin (Sv-b) wrote few posters about selection of a particular word (forbidden). And I wrote something about antiquity of palmistry in India. This was not for an Indian audience per se. This was for other members.

regards

Chakraborty




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Vedic Indian Palmistry

Post  nishaghai on Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:55 am

Upendrasingh Bhadoriya wrote:A very few literature of Palmistry are found in Vedic era (It is estimated that the Vedic Period in India lasted from 1500 - 600 B.C) because of mouth to mouth study was very popular in ancient India.  So what we found now a days in our region is formatted or reformatted palmistry of that era. Due to lack of evidence we are not sure which part of palmistry pertain to Vedic time and which one is modified. We have suffered a lot due to impose of various foreign culture during 1206 AD to 1946 AD. During my latest study I have found that in old text of palmistry terminology of palm is very different than we are using now a day in the name of “Indian Palmistry”. There is no connection of Mounts, Which are used now  are found in Indian palmistry literature.  We have lost our identification hence writer like Shree John Fincham writes “In modern times, Indian palmists are often at pains to assert the ancient origins of their art and many claim that in ancient times there were thousands of books on handreading in India. These claims cannot now be substantiated, as very few (if any) of these original texts now remain.  This assertion is made all the more unlikely due to the fact that most modern Indian palmists seem to follow the traditions of Western Victorian palmistry rather than any indigenous tradition of their own!” His statement is very true as per my experience because I have visited many palmists across India and have many books of various Indian palmists in various languages with me.      
Dear Shri Upendra sing. I do not agree with you that now not much is available in Vedic Indian Palmistry. Yes now most of our working is changed but to what all I have read in vedic palmistry It still has much of science and relevance. Books on Hast Samudrik shahtra a re still available but with little change Since palmistry was not very popular in India It was always astrology which had upper hand now palmistry is getting popular so people are writing much about it . As per Mounts description In vedic palmistry they take hand as whole hole and gives more important to lines and bracelets.
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