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Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:58 am

Parender wrote:Hi Kiran,

To draw out information about the hallmark, essence, nitty-gritty that the person has we should look at other certain features in the hand too. Dermatoglyphic is one of them. Dermatoglyphic and Palmistry were made for each other. It will be always better if we could mingle both maps in this regard.

When we talk about love or presence of independence of thoughts and acts in a person we should see – besides other things- pattern on index finger too. According to Richard Unger and others these can reveal ‘soul psychology’ . According to him, “one’s soul psychology is permanent, indelibly hardwired into the psyche”. Whorls type is the most important of all the patterns. We know that this sign on index finger denotes person is of a strong personality with the qualities of definite independence in thought and action, besides its showing individuality and originality in ideas and going for power.

It is not only the separate starting of the two major lines that matters or reveals so but following features must be observed such as the leaning of long index finger toward the thumb, good wide space between index and middle fingers. Spatulate tips, short nails also show this. Such a person who possesses almost all above mentioned features should be a great spirit of love of independence. Here long first phalange of thumb is also anticipated and developed mount of Mars.

I have to say that a person can be strongly independent in nature who has joined start of two major lines. The gap between the two major lines of Head and Life suggests the degree of love of self-reliance, so suggests the gap between the Mercury and Ring fingers.

Actually the study Palmistry is an art of establishing combinations. The art in establishing the combinations between all the three keys depends on your passion, urge, and time devoted to the serious study of the subject. Accordingly, you can easily establish combinations for a sensitive person too. Enjoy!

Parender
Thank you Parender ji. Your point on the "degree of love of self-reliance" is good.
But, it can be said for Mercury finger separation also. right?
If not - what would you attribute to Mercury finger separation differently?


Last edited by Kiran.Katawa on Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:34 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Re-phrased the question)

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:33 am

Hi,
This has gone into 4th page now. So, plenty of info Smile Thumbs up!

Thank you Nobis, Tap and Boaz for sharing your personal life experiences on this marking. It helps a lot.

Just to summarize:

REGARDING DIFFERENCES IN HEAD-LIFE LINE SEPARATION AND INDEPENDENT MERCURY:

Anand - Something to with conscious v/s sub-conscious minds as one is one conscious side and the other is on sub-conscious side.

Johnny Fincham( from his book ) - The greater the distance b/w them the more confident and independent in their mental vision. The more it clinges to the life line the more a person clings to what they know.
On Mercury finger standing out - Its a sign of independence of mind, eccentricity on active hand.

MORE INFO ON MERCURY SEPARATION:

Patti( Mercury separate) -
1. Need for personal space and time for doing things separate from others
2. Personal space in body language can also relate to how comfortable people are in proximity to each other. How much they let their personal boundaries overlap other people's boundaries.

Boaz - The need to sleep by oneself or not. One needs their life to be mirrored and accompanied, while another does not want their habits, feelings and thoughts to be hindered. One happily confines themselves in space, another not.

MORE INFO ON HEAD-LIFE LINE SEPARATION:
Kiran - Headline-life line separation is related to early childhood. It says something about parents influence and the freedom at home/school. The same is not the case with Mercury finger.

Nobis childhood freedom is somewhat restricted but parental influence was to some extent missing

Parender - The gap between the two major lines of Head and Life suggests the degree of love of self-reliance.

Tap - it represents thinking different from the people in your environment.

I hope, I havn't missed out any imp. point from anybody here.
In my understanding the marker of head-life line separation takes different forms based on the other markers as saw from plenty of examples above.

On the same lines, have you people noticed a person with Mercury finger standing out?
How was his style of independence was different from what we have discussed here?
I am mainly emphasising on not becoming Barnum in our readings. Thats why this question is. It would be hitting bulls-eye if we can point out the exact differences or where the desire for independce is stemming from. I understand that the hands have to be read in full. But, if the contribution of independce if from Mercury finger separation there should be some diff. in the personality.

I usually see this finger standing out in celebreties on TV, models.
Parender, Anand, Nobis - you can see this particularly Zoom channel or see Page3 on Times of India.

Patti - regarding your point on Mercury separation, one of my aunt has this. And she doesn't feel like need for personal space and time for doing things separate from others. She mingles with all of us and she isn't alone. However, she has a heart line split and both of them are going to mount of Jupiter. But, I don't see her doing things separate from others anytime at all!
Do you have other points on this (separation of Mecury finger)?



Last edited by Kiran.Katawa on Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:51 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Changed as per tap's request)

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  tap on Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:11 am

Thanks Patti for the link!
http://synapse.koreamed.org/Synapse/Data/PDFData/1049ACB/acb-43-169.pdf

Briefly looked at it and it looks like grip strength playing a role in the creases. I plan of finding some time to read through it carefully later. Very interesting!

"Now just get him interested in this topic!" lol His fields of study could apply fairly well! Very Happy

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  tap on Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:18 am

Hi Kiran

Nice job of summarizing this long post. Very Happy

I believe the 2 statements are dealing with the head and heart lines, and their affect on sensitivity. Nobis originally posted about the heart line being taken into consideration with regards to sensitivity.

"Tap(if the lines are joined) - Not wearing thier heart on their sleeve
Boaz - "It is possible for a person to wear their heart on their sleeves, yet not share any original, possibly controversial, thoughts."


Kiran so glad you keep us aware of this.
"I am mainly emphasising on not becoming Barnum in our readings." Thumbs up!

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:24 pm

tap wrote:Hi Kiran

Nice job of summarizing this long post. Very Happy

I believe the 2 statements are dealing with the head and heart lines, and their affect on sensitivity. Nobis originally posted about the heart line being taken into consideration with regards to sensitivity.

"Tap(if the lines are joined) - Not wearing thier heart on their sleeve
Boaz - "It is possible for a person to wear their heart on their sleeves, yet not share any original, possibly controversial, thoughts."


Kiran so glad you keep us aware of this.
"I am mainly emphasising on not becoming Barnum in our readings." Thumbs up!
Thank you Tap. I have removed those 2 points from summary.
I believe, Barnum is very imp. person in every palmist's life Smile

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  tap on Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:29 pm

Hi Kiran

One aspect of palmistry can be just that.

So deciphering how much the hands ALONE can tell us is an issue. The Barnum effect plays such a large role in reading the hands unfortunately it becomes difficult. I feel a lot of times people just want to know too much and the hand reader tries too hard to answer them. I don't know.....I think the combination will always be there while reading hands in person or even just asking for feed back.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Patti on Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:32 pm

Kiran.Katawa wrote:Patti - regarding your point on Mercury separation, one of my aunt has this. And she doesn't feel like need for personal space and time for doing things separate from others. She mingles with all of us and she isn't alone. However, she has a heart line split and both of them are going to mount of Jupiter. But, I don't see her doing things separate from others anytime at all!
Do you have other points on this (separation of Mecury finger)?


Hi Kiran,
Nice summary! Thumbs up!

One thing to note is that the positions of the fingers have a lot to do with current mood and attitude. Some positions may become habitual and represent chronic behavior.

I read your post last night and looked through some of the famous hand photos I've collected on my computer for examples of people who hold their little fingers out. I noticed some people like Hillary Clinton is shown in photos with the little finger very extended along with snuggled up close to the ring. Some people seemed to be consistent, however. In person, people who hold their fingers closed do not care too much for the feeling of holding them open when asked and others do not like to hold their fingers closed. Each has a mood or energy to it. Kind of like a difference between being open and being closed to the free flow of input from the world.

Your aunt is an interesting example. There are all kinds of 'body language' cues that come from finger positions. Is it a position similar to Megan Fox here:



or Oprah?



Looking for an example of a person drinking tea with their little finger sticking out I came across this:

"It is an affectation to raise the little finger, even slightly." Which supports the 'attitude/mood' description.
http://www.etiquettescholar.com/dining_etiquette/tea_etiquette.html



As far as your aunt is concerned, I would ask her. Explain to her what we have shared, if you think she wouldn't mind, and see what she feels like she identifies with, everyone is different. I would also check her other hand features and finger positions, too. What features are present that relate to enjoying one's own company versus a need for interaction with others?

There are also people who can find their alone time in the midst of others, enjoying the background chatter and noise of other people but busy with their own work such as cooking, sewing or even reading.

It would be interesting to see how she may describe how she spends time alone or sees herself as an individual.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  tap on Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:00 pm

When looking at someone’s hands and observing the traits reflected in them, I still can only offer a fairly vague description of what I see. Most times after that the person will go on to clarify/give more detail to me for me why those traits are there. Sometimes I find their clarification, almost in a way, is contradicting to parts of the original statement given to them or they seem to try to hard to make it work. I can find myself adjusting my words to try to find their perspective on their traits. It is this aspect that I am not sure about. I am not sure if this is due to a matter of different perspectives or not. So considering all of that , it is hard to figure out how the Barnum effect does not come into play a little bit. So I am hoping this issue is due to the difference between an experienced hand reader and one who is not.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  zaobhand on Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:03 pm

tap wrote: So I am hoping this issue is due to the difference between an experienced hand reader and one who is not.
Similarly here Smile
I like to see myself as a beginner because it affords me to see better contradictions. It is best to stay with open mind.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Ramann on Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:17 pm

I too think the Barnum effect to some extent comes into play.As most posters can relate to almost everything that is being said.I wonder how can that be possible... :8->: :8->: Are we making too generic readings that posters make something out of nothing.In a public forum all that is good is being mostly said.A flirt you can not say a flirt..Rather we highlight some other softer aspects of the person.But I feel posters rather than complementing should ask more specific question and feebdback should be in black and white...Not in shades of grey...........If nothing they can relate..it should be flat and blunt...

Nobis

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  zaobhand on Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:29 pm

Agreed. Honest feedback is most welcome!

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Patti on Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:09 pm

Ramann wrote:I too think the Barnum effect to some extent comes into play.As most posters can relate to almost everything that is being said.I wonder how can that be possible... :8->: :8->: Are we making too generic readings that posters make something out of nothing.In a public forum all that is good is being mostly said.A flirt you can not say a flirt..Rather we highlight some other softer aspects of the person.But I feel posters rather than complementing should ask more specific question and feebdback should be in black and white...Not in shades of grey...........If nothing they can relate..it should be flat and blunt...

Nobis

As Tap says, we can't really trust self-reporting completely. I think we learn more from the repetition of seeing the same features in a variety of people's hands and hearing all the feedback from the various perspectives and then looking for the commonality or underlying common indications. It can't really be black and white because there is no "one size fits all", the shades of gray, or rather shades of the rainbow come from combinations.

In my experience, feedback on a public venue like this depends on the ability of the person to 'expose' themselves. An experienced reader will take these factors into consideration along with the feedback given. How many times have others of you received PMs describing and confirming things people wouldn't share on the board!? Then out of respect for confidentiality the reader can't go back on the board and share the confirmations or insights they've learned.

Not being able to see the emotional or mental state of a person makes it very important for the reader to be aware of how their words, particular harsh or blunt can be taken.

In Judith Hipskin's book "Palmistry, The Whole View" she gives advice that has stayed with me for over thirty years. "Don't cut the strings that are holding a person together."

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Ramann on Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:55 pm

In my experience, feedback on a public venue like this depends on the ability of the person to 'expose' themselves. An experienced reader will take these factors into consideration along with the feedback given. How many times have others of you received PMs describing and confirming things people wouldn't share on the board!? Then out of respect for confidentiality the reader can't go back on the board and share the confirmations or insights they've learned.


Hello Patti

I think readers are not supposed to give confirmations on any readings in private messages.That is a stringent rule.Agreed that out of confidentiality and respecting people's privacy readers are not supposed to give comment further..But that betrays the purpose of an open forum like this.Else all the readings would have been private.......Private readings only when the situation is too tricky and the poster trusts you completely for a reading.But that too is supposedly not allowed......

Nobis

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Patti on Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:16 pm

Ramann wrote:
In my experience, feedback on a public venue like this depends on the ability of the person to 'expose' themselves. An experienced reader will take these factors into consideration along with the feedback given. How many times have others of you received PMs describing and confirming things people wouldn't share on the board!? Then out of respect for confidentiality the reader can't go back on the board and share the confirmations or insights they've learned.


Hello Patti

I think readers are not supposed to give confirmations on any readings in private messages.That is a stringent rule.Agreed that out of confidentiality and respecting people's privacy readers are not supposed to give comment further..But that betrays the purpose of an open forum like this.Else all the readings would have been private.......Private readings only when the situation is too tricky and the poster trusts you completely for a reading.But that too is supposedly not allowed......

Nobis

Stringent rule? Wink
Members are welcome to discuss among themselves what they like on the PM. And if people choose to share private information in a Private Message (PM) that is not against the rules.

Members should not use the PM system to request readings or draw attention to their posts as per the rules. Perhaps this is what you are thinking about?

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  tap on Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:35 pm

Patti

Had time to look at the link you sent. 5.6% for male, right hand having an open crease concerning the head and life line.

Next time I see my son I will look to see if I see any accessory creases.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:19 am

Patti wrote:
Kiran.Katawa wrote:Patti - regarding your point on Mercury separation, one of my aunt has this. And she doesn't feel like need for personal space and time for doing things separate from others. She mingles with all of us and she isn't alone. However, she has a heart line split and both of them are going to mount of Jupiter. But, I don't see her doing things separate from others anytime at all!
Do you have other points on this (separation of Mecury finger)?


Hi Kiran,
Nice summary! Thumbs up!

One thing to note is that the positions of the fingers have a lot to do with current mood and attitude. Some positions may become habitual and represent chronic behavior.

I read your post last night and looked through some of the famous hand photos I've collected on my computer for examples of people who hold their little fingers out. I noticed some people like Hillary Clinton is shown in photos with the little finger very extended along with snuggled up close to the ring. Some people seemed to be consistent, however. In person, people who hold their fingers closed do not care too much for the feeling of holding them open when asked and others do not like to hold their fingers closed. Each has a mood or energy to it. Kind of like a difference between being open and being closed to the free flow of input from the world.

Your aunt is an interesting example. There are all kinds of 'body language' cues that come from finger positions. Is it a position similar to Megan Fox here:



or Oprah?



Looking for an example of a person drinking tea with their little finger sticking out I came across this:

"It is an affectation to raise the little finger, even slightly." Which supports the 'attitude/mood' description.
http://www.etiquettescholar.com/dining_etiquette/tea_etiquette.html



As far as your aunt is concerned, I would ask her. Explain to her what we have shared, if you think she wouldn't mind, and see what she feels like she identifies with, everyone is different. I would also check her other hand features and finger positions, too. What features are present that relate to enjoying one's own company versus a need for interaction with others?

There are also people who can find their alone time in the midst of others, enjoying the background chatter and noise of other people but busy with their own work such as cooking, sewing or even reading.

It would be interesting to see how she may describe how she spends time alone or sees herself as an individual.
Hi Patti, it is as in the case of Oprah. I'll get back to you on this after discussing with my aunt.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  anand_palm on Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:20 am

Hello all

I also do have a seperation of mercury and ring finger, usually i dont like to make other embaressed about somethingh when i want tell somethingh about them like their mistakes or somethingh confidential in front of all of them, in a sense i also expect the same thingh. Like i dont like to travel in a very crowded train is a typical example whether that is because of this or not iam not sure. In that sense a need for personal space is there.



Kiran Well summarized Thumbs up!

Both these line start from the concious zone, iam not sure whether thumb plays a role in the formation of life line and whether index finger plays a role in formation of head line, assuming it does then it may be a indication that the ability to seperate your indiviudality and you tenacity is more. Iam not sure how to phrase this correctlly, but i would these people may not put their determination into their thinking process is what i can think off, in a sense this person need not put a sustained effort to think through.

Anand





Thanks
Anand


Last edited by anand_palm on Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:49 am; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:29 am

tap wrote:Hi Kiran

One aspect of palmistry can be just that.

So deciphering how much the hands ALONE can tell us is an issue. The Barnum effect plays such a large role in reading the hands unfortunately it becomes difficult. I feel a lot of times people just want to know too much and the hand reader tries too hard to answer them. I don't know.....I think the combination will always be there while reading hands in person or even just asking for feed back.
Hi Tap, its not about answering too much to the readee. Even if its small, how unique is it?
For ex: you're sensitive to abstract thinking is different than you're sensitive to environment and ppl's reactions, for ex. And this is 1 level down than just saying you're sensitive to the reader.
Barnum is a spectrum. I amn't asking for elimination. But, we have to try to get to the "more specific" end of that specturm. And its more of a satisfaction for us and more of revealing to the readee. If he had a generalized thinking about himself on some negative traits then he will realize that he reacts negatively only in some cases and not all.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:23 am

Parender wrote:
Dermatoglyphic is one of them. Dermatoglyphic and Palmistry were made for each other.
Hi Parenderji, this is very influential and a very nice statement you mentioned here.
Thanks! a lot.
They are like Romeo-Juliet, Laila-Majnu, Heer-Ranja Smile Smile Smile

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  tap on Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:10 pm

Thanks Kiran
I understand what you are saying, and it makes sense. Thumbs up!
As a beginner, I am still absorbing so much information.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Sun Jun 03, 2012 4:19 am

Ramann wrote:Hello Kiran

Hi Nobis,

Okay. If parents have influenced + there is no freedom at home: Might appear has lines separated + there are some lines connecting these lines, a combined effect, particularly in left hand. If school environment encourages your freedom then right hand will be having this separation.

I can not make our what you want to say above.Can you explain please.

I have read a hand of a person, who had a step mother. This guy was mainly taken care by his grand parents. He has lots of freedom at school. Now, you can guess, how his lines may be. In both the hands, the lines were separated. In left hand the lines had some connecting small branches - indicating restriction.

May be something that can be looked into in a new light.I am still thinking over the same.I think the above is a lone case that can not be generalized.If you have observed in multiple cases its a food for thought.

Hi Nobis,
I hope Parendar's reply added a good description and answered your question.
I havn't seen many examples of this case. Apart from my friend's case, there was NoelH's hands on this blog. She had it the otherway round, if you remember(Left-separated, Right combined).

Your case is a very good example. Thanks for sharing the first hand info.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  tap on Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:40 am

Hi
Been thinking about this thread, and I would like to edit my original statement for what the gap between the head line and life line means. I want to change it to; it represents thinking different from the people in your environment. Kiran, would you change that in your summary? Also, the statements made concerning the heart line should probably be added to the summary in a new section.

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  anand_palm on Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:46 am

Hi Tap

You could be right in a sense if you equate life line as environment energy then it would make sense. Thumbs up! Thumb up

Anand



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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  tap on Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:37 am

Very Happy Yes! Enviromental energy is how I was thinking about it.
Thanks Anand

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Re: Difference on "Independence" Markers and "Sensitivity" Markers in Hand.

Post  zaobhand on Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:28 pm

I don't think the traditional interpretation made to separate life and head lines is necessarily correct. I think the position of the head line relative to thumb and index finger is more relevant.

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