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MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Ron on Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:04 pm

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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:13 pm

Ron wrote:If Ed Campbell is the initiator of the IBMBS, is the one who organizes it every year?
Hi Ron,

The IBMBS conference is not organized every year, so far the IBMBS event took place in 2004, 2005, 2007 and 2009 - all organized & hosted by Ed.




PS. Last year I wrote a short review of the IBMBS project so far:
http://www.handresearch.com/news/international-behavioral-and-medical-biometrics-society.htm

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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Ron on Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:18 pm

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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:21 pm

Ron wrote:Well I would really hope, since a few of us have asked Campbell that the next conference to take place in Europe, since most of us are situated in the Western side of the world (especially Europe, United Kingdom and the United States). It would be good since it will give us all an opportunity to all meet in person.

Since when did Kenneth have his own radio show? This is the first I hear of it.
Hi Ron,

Kenneth presented his online radioshow "Your Life is in Your Hands" earlier this year (march - june), in cooperation with VoiceAmerica:
http://www.voiceamerica.com/voiceamerica/vepisode.aspx?aid=46625


E.g. Jennifer, Lynn & Ed were each featured in one episode - but other hand-experts were also introduced (such as psychologist Susan Goldin-Meadow, who is an expert in hand gestures... I really liked that episode).


Unfortunately, the podcasts are no longer available (Kenneth has spoken out the intention to make the postcast available via his website... but nothing happened since then).

So, we now only have our memories... though I did write a short review of the episode where Lynn was interviewed, see:
http://handfacts.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/your-life-is-in-your-hands-lets-talk-about-the-hand-lines/

(Sorry Ron... we are ... but thanks for asking!! )

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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Ron on Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:27 pm

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REason For Asian IBMBS 2011 Confrence

Post  Handreadered on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:31 pm

There have been four IBMBS conferences. The first was in Las Vegas, the second in Shanghai, the third was in Budapest and the fourth was in Las Vegas. The next will be in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. The only person who has discussed with me a conference in Europe was Manfred Magg. We were not able to determine how feasible it would be at the time to plan a conference or how many people we could count on in being there from Europe after the rather poor showing in Budapest, We had one person from England, two from Holland, and three from Germany. The Israeli delegation dropped out about four weeks before the conference and left their presentation to the delegation from New Horizons from Hong Kong. I think we had about seven from China including Taiwan. The Israelis said they could not afford to come. I had no European help in planning or putting on the Budapest conference except for the presentation of Lydia Wagoner. We had several presentations from China. Without some European support there is little hope I will help host a future conference there and Manfred indicated he did not believe that support existed the last time I corresponded with him on the subject.

Our first conference in Shanghai was fairly well attended, especially as it was only our second conference. New Horizons from Hong Kong and Shanghai set up the meeting rooms and hotel. I met their chief representatives, Fritz Pang and Irene Tsang, at our first Las Vegas conference and took their invitation to go to China. While Arnold Holtzman had been to the first conference, he did not attend the second conference in Shanghai but a large continue from Israel CDP, perhaps six or seven, did. The economy must have been better that year for them to afford to travel so far. I do not recall who from Europe was there. At least four of us from North America attended. Following that I attended two larger conferences in China, one hosted by Dr. Wang Chen-xia in Shanghai and the second hosted by Mary Lai and Mind Measurement Education Association in Taipei, Taiwan. I don’t recall if any other westerner attended the Wang Chen-xia conference. I believe some from PDC may have attended the Taipei MME conference and Arnold Holtzman sent a video tape heralding the joining of PDC and MME. I understand Mary Lai was not amused. At these conferences I had the opportunity to meet socially more of the leaders in the Chinese studies of dermatoglyphics. I also met Lysander Poon from Malaysia who since then has been part of a new commercial enterprise using dermatoglyphic assessments as their principal product; GeneCorp. I was introduced to MME’s computer assisted dermatoglyphic assessment program but it was not really ready at the time for release in English. Mary Lai had studied about 10,000 cases before she set up this computer assisted program.

Our second conference in Las Vegas was rather small but we became a closer group. Mary was unable to attend and Dr Wang was ill but represented by her daughter. Francine from Holland joined us and we had a few from North America including Richard Unger who was at our first conference and Yvonne Ballala, a palmist from Albuquerque. Like all of our other IBMBS conferences, representatives of other biometric assessment tools attended. Naomi Tickle, a leading facial profiler was there and Jon Miles, well know in iridology circles was there as he has been on several occasions. We have had other iridologist, a foot expert living in France, and an expert on Lip readings. IBMBS is not dedicated exclusively to, nor owned by those who only read the hand or the prints of the hands and feet. Wang Chen-xia is also a facial expert for use in medical diagnostics. Several from Africa sought to attend, and two from Nigeria did attend, one by Skype and one in person. The Skype attendance was problematical. Those amending from Nigeria contributed in the field of traditional dermatoglyphics. We also had our first two Indian palmists, one from Australia and one from Southern California.

Since the last IBMBS conference I have been invited to and attended two more conferences in China, one being part of the 16th International Anthropology and Ethnology Union conference at Yunnan University in Kunming, and a second MME conference in Taipei. There were perhaps 40 or more in the dermatoglyphics section at the Kunming conference including my host, Prof Zhang Haiguo who teaches at the Shanghai University Medical School. He selected my paper on rejoinder of dermatoglyphics, hand analysis and forensic sciences as the lead off presentation at that conference I was honored with helping him open that section of the conference, which was also known as the 7th Chinese National conference on Dermatoglyphics. Mary Lai and Wang Chen-xia were there as was Prof Shao Ziwan (Rtd) who the Chinese Government had permitted to take the fingerprints of leading Chinese athletes, Olympians and world class and compare them to ordinary sports performers She reported on a surprising find that caused me to reevaluate the nature of one print and add a logical but qualitative revision to my own work.. This should demonstrate the strong support these programs have from the Chinese government, something completely lacking in the west.

The Chinese official support was demonstrated in the conference this year in Taipei when again I was an invited guest and attended and made a presentation and taught a three hour class after the conference on my Fingerprint theories. Numerous educators made presentation at that conference which was attended by representatives from Indonesia, Malaysia, Taiwan and mainland China. Many school counselors and educators from mainland China attended and showed further the support of the Chinese government. I believe Mary may now be receiving some encouragement or support from the Taiwanese government and her assessment programs are in schools in all of these Asian countries. She has assessors in ten countries today. Her two conferences were in the National Library conference center across the street from the Chang Kai Chek memorial. The last was attended by about 150 including Prof Haiguo in person and Prof. Shao Ziwan by video. Politics, we believe prevented both Dr. Wang Chen-xia, considered a precious possession by the PRC and Prof Shao, who has some strong governmental connections, from attending. One presentation made quite an impression on me. A pilot trainer with 30 years of military and commercial aviation experience spoke of his use of the MME assessment programs and said that the MME program proved more successful in identifying who would succeed in training and in an aviation career than any other assessment tool he had ever used.

While in Taipei my computer was fitted with MME’s latest English Language assessment program by Mary’s engineer. While she has many researchers, she seems to have a staff of about four or five full time workers. While I am in at the ground floor, this is obviously growing, and has the largest potential market in the world, the full Asian population. Right now, Europe is a backwater in the future development of hand analysis, despite the noble efforts of Martjin

One of the facts that becomes clear from these conferences is that the Asians are recording each case study (now over 100,000) and conducting statistical analyses of these studies. I anticipate they will now be studying my fingerprint theories and subjecting them to testing. I have copies of many of them, but unfortunately they are in Chinese.

Both China and India, just a few centuries ago, were the richest countries in the world and China looks to be that before the middle of this century. Before Columbus discovered America, China sent a huge fleet around the world. Today, General Motors builds as many cars in China as it does in North America. Shanghai and Beijing are teeming cities with registered populations in each of seventeen million and each have another five million estimated floaters. The small university town I stayed in, the vacation resort of China, Kunming, has a population of four million and is a small city in China. I planed the next IBMBS conference in Kuala Lumpur because we were invited to do so. It is very good for China and Wang Chen-xia supported this location., Those from Africa and other countries in the world should have no visa problems, as we experienced both in North America and Europe. These are great events to meet others, but also events to present new works and to learn from some of the best in the world.
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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:51 pm

Hi Ed,

Thank you for your additional comments on the 'social' dynamics behind the conferences in the past.

Any news regarding the research results that you announced earlier this year?


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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Ron on Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:12 pm

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MME 2010 continued, Reply to Ron

Post  Handreadered on Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:31 am


Ron wrote:
May I ask what was the reason for them simply to pull out? After all the Israeli delegation, the Psychodiagnostic Chirologists represent the highest form and standard of psychological hand analysis.

I stated the official reason was that they said they could not afford to attend the Budapest conference. In the second IBMBS conference in Shanghai the Israeli delegation made some contribution to the costs of putting on the conference. This time no offer of contribution was made (though the registration fee of one would have been less than the delegation donation made to help support the Shanghai conference). I suggested that the one non-presenting member of the delegation should pay the registration fee. This met resistance and shortly thereafter the Israeli delegation pulled out in mass, apologizing for not being able to afford to come to the conference. That action also happened after I gave some of Lydia Wagoner’s CV which included some studies with a well know German palmist who also happened to be a Nazi (having lived in Germany before and during World War II). Lydia offered to withdraw if her appearance offended any of the Israelis and pointed out that only one of her teachers had a Nazi background. I said nonsense, it was time to get over some of the past and given the time she grew up in Germany after World War II, one would expect a strong possibility of teachers being former Nazis. I expressed my concern to some of the Israelis that if this was the real reason for the withdrawal, I could see no foundation for it. Thereafter my emails were blocked by Arnold and others in the Israeli delegation. If you want any further explanation you should ask them. I regret if they think I am a Nazi lover or Jew Hater. It is not so.

Elsewhere I have posted my critique of PDC. Arnold’s book is a beautiful vanity press creation by the same press that printed his first book. A Vanity Press is one that one that the author hires to print his work, as compared to my own Encyclopedia, for example, for which I was paid and was published by and printed for and at the expense of Perigee division of Berkeley Putnam in New York and Robert Hall in London. Arnold, if memory serves me, describes about 71 psychological syndromes that are new and not then (or currently for all I know) recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) of the American Psychiatric Association. Admittedly that is revised every half dozen years or so, so maybe his work has or will find some recognition by that profession in their official literature. Arnold surrounds his palmistry with psychological jargon, but little in real case studies and nothing in statistical analysis and little in the way of reference to supporting authority. Look beyond the glossy text and pictures and there is little meat behind the work, no matter how well disguised by all the psychological jargon. I (and some other respectable authors in the field that I have spoken or corresponded with) do not agree with your assertion that: the Psychodiagnostic Chirologists represent the highest form and standard of psychological hand analysis.

Arnold’s work is far different from that of Mary Lai. Mary has adopted standard measurement tools, pattern identification practices and procedures, data gathering and report procedures, which permits her results, analyses, to be statistically analyzed and independently double checked. She was aided and encouraged in this by Professor Zhang Haiguo of the teaching staff of the medical school at Shanghai University who teaches over 300 students a year in the science of dermatoglyphics and is the Chairperson of the Chinese Dermatoglyphic Association and author of a number of important works in the area. Mary students and researchers follow these standardized methods, the same methods I intend to teach next February in North America with the help of Miffy Loxton who now lives in Leeds. Mary’s work is grounded on scientific principals.

At one point Mary looked forward to working with Arnold. I do not know the details of what happened, but something in Arnold’s approach apparently offended her and I had the impression that Arnold had made a play of incorporating Mary’s work into his PDC school. If that was his intention he did not read Mary very well. Her work was not going to become a branch of anyone’s school. I do not know how much influence he still has with the Chinese but it was not apparent at the July 2010 MME conference in Taipei. I believe one PDC practitioner may have received some training in the MME method from representatives in Hong Kong after our meeting in Shanghai and Arnold did make a visit to Hong Kong. His only face to face meeting with Mary may have been the that took place at our first conference in Las Vegas.

Ron, from you earlier jingoistic remarks on the superiority of the western palmistry I thought it might be useful to remind all of the trends in the world today and for a need of a certain amount of humility in this feeling of superiority That was something I thought might now be apparent to those Caucasian families that remained in South Africa after the end of aparthed. Right now, outside of some disjointed efforts in the west, and those of Martijn and friends, there is little scientific hand analysis, palmistry in the west. In the east they are not embarrassed to use the term palmistry in their scientific studies. Arnold and others have specifically avoided it in the west.

By the way all the fingerprint scanners appear to be made in China, the hand scanner manufacturers seem to be dominated by the Chinese with some sprinkling of Indian influence. The both have successful space programs. I suggest you visit some of the Chinese cities, especially Shanghai and Beijing. You need to clean your glasses. Also, check your cameras, TV’s and computers and see where the parts are made. Would you like to know where much of your software is developed today. India. A friend and client of mine opened his software shop there and now has about 30 employees and works almost 24/7 except for some sleep and eating time. China is one of the world’s leaders in the current development of solar energy.

Ron: You can second guess my final choice of Budapest (made after discussions with a number of people including Europeans). I thought it was fairly successful, even without the Israeli contingent. Visa’s are a problem, and were even in Budapest. Nigerians had problems. Chinese had problems getting into the US. I had to get letters from two United States Senators to the State Department to get visas for Wang Chen-xia for our 2009 conference. Sean O’Sullivan helped there. This process can take months.

Kuala Lumpur has been in the planning process since the last IBMBS conference. Getting people to coordinate and act is always a problem. Much of the time I have been left to my own devices, which was the case in Budapest and two North American conferences. I am not familiar with the I.A.C. and very many people from south Africa although I have had pleasant correspondence wit both Jennifer Hirsch and Kevin Leek. Keven was going to try to attend the last IBMBS in Las Vegas, and we had him listed on theprogram, but his plans fell through.

Right now the only people I can depend on to help with IBMBS and or give it support are Jon Miles, camera expert and iridologist, Jilly Eddy, lip reading expert, Naomi Tickle, face profiling expert, Sean O’Sullivan, palmist, Wang Chen-xia and her daughter, Mary Lai and some MME people, a few who have attended past conferences like Manfred Magg, and some publicity shared by those like Martijn. I have sent out thousands of notices of the past conferences and I tried to contact every palmist I could find on the net. So come to the Kuala Lumpur conference and if you can improve the process I am sure we will elect you to take it over.

Ed Campbell
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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Manfred on Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:18 am

Dear Ed,

I hope you are fine and your health contdition is much better...after your pr. Sun had changed the sign.

Your and Mary's courses sound very interesting. Do you or does she have/has any extensive papers about your work? ....I`m sorry that Noth America and Asia is too far from here at the moment forto take part personally.

With best wishes
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MME and Kuala Lumpur in 2011

Post  Handreadered on Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:23 pm

Hi manfred:

I can send you something, but my supplies are very limited and much of what I will send you is in Chinese. Some is in English. You can send me your snail mail address to my regular emila address which I believe you have.

Apparently Ron did not like my reply as he has advised me by private message that I need a history lesson on slavery and aparthed and he has blocked any future correspondence from me.

Best regards

Ed

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MME and Kuala Lumpur in 2011

Post  Handreadered on Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:41 pm

Hi Martijn:

I can never remember if the i comes before or after the j. Sorry for the times I misspelt your name.

I think much of my future research will only be published after I have the appropriate software in place that will also provoide for the implimentation of statistical testing. I will probably publish the hypotheses that formed the basis of my presentation at MME 2010 and the class given after that on my own take on fingerprints. I met a member of military intelligence on the plane this past Monday who was facinated by the interrogation potentials in my work, especially on my presentation in Taipei on the Hand Never Stops Talking. I have been preaching this since the beginning of the Iraq war.

I need a new computer as my current one gives me nightmares. Also need to update my web site to provide for publishing my papaers for any who are interested. These are all daunting tasks for one born before TV was common. I think that the first TV show I saw was in the war canteen of the London US embasy showing the royal weding procession of the current QE II and Prince Philip. That dates me.

Best regards

Ed
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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:51 pm

Handreadered wrote:Hi Martijn:

I can never remember if the i comes before or after the j. Sorry for the times I misspelt your name.
Hi Ed,

Apologies accepted, but don't worry about that ... maybe now the time arrived that you will never ever wright my name wrong again???



Anyway, thanks for answering my question!

(I thought you had announced to publish 'results' this summer, but from your comment about 'hypotheses' I can now see how I probably misinterpretated your earlier words. Sorry for the misunderstanding.)


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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Aug 05, 2011 10:59 pm


Ed Campbell's 2011 IBMBS conference has started this weekend (friday-sunday), see:
http://www.expos2events.com/IBMBSConference2011/index.php


PS. Patti is one of the (online) 'exhibitors'!

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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Patti on Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:10 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Ed Campbell's 2011 IBMBS conference has started this weekend (friday-sunday), see:
http://www.expos2events.com/IBMBSConference2011/index.php


PS. Patti is one of the (online) 'exhibitors'!

Thanks for mentioning this Martijn. I think that link is currently showing only the presenters for Saturday plus those that have booths in the virtual exhibition hall.

I'll be making my presentation Sunday at 10 a.m. (Malaysian time) via a pre-recorded video, and if all goes well, followed by a live chat room style internet Q & A session.

Ed and his co-sponsors are working on making the entire conference available via the internet, as a recorded version afterwards, affordably priced.

Here is a photo I took of my monitor screen showing my 'virtual' exhibit booth. I have options to have chats with visitors, share brochures, pdf files and videos which can be accessed with the buttons on the right and those on the left that I hid from view.



happy yel I'm excited!
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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Lynn on Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:08 pm

How did it go Patti, hope all went well! Very Happy

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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Patti on Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:09 pm

Lynn wrote:How did it go Patti, hope all went well! Very Happy

Hi Lynn,
I haven't had any feedback yet. I think they had some technical issues with the virtual booth being 'live' during the show. Something about bandwidth and other glitches in working internationally. Of course it was Mercury retrograde, too!

I was able to view some of the power point presentations. You had to be there for the live presentations and pre-recorded video presentations. Some presenters were able to be present via Skype.

In the near future I'll share the video I made for the presentation.

Here's a list of the presentations:

Saturday
Face Pattern Recogniton - Naomi Tickle
Sclerology as a Biometric - Leonard Mehlmauer, ND
Techniques for Biometric Photography of Face, Hands, Iris - Jon Miles
Palm Print Disease Diagnosing Standards - Wang Chenxia
Fingerprint Correspondences to Behavior - Ed Campbell

Sunday
Cancer Shown in the Hand? - Sean L. O'Sullivan
Biometric Imaging: Quantitative Methods of Color Measurement from Images - Jon Miles
Star~Delta Triradii: Human Impulse Markers - Patti Lightflower
Comparative Assessment of Markers of Genetic Predisposition to Ischemic Heart Disease - Marina Yakusheva
A Study on Standard Values of some Craniofacial Parameters - Oladipo Gabriel, PhD
A Study of Fingerprints of Identical and Non Identical Twins - Deepak Gupta
Fingerprint, Palmar, Plantar, Toe Prints for Criminal and Civil Identification - Sivaraj
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Re: MME 2010 Conferece in Taiwan and 2011 IBMBS Conference in Kuala Lumpur

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:38 am


Patti, thanks for the summary.

Thumb up

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