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Post  Kiran.Katawa on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:21 am

Patti wrote:One of the articles I read discussed motive in regards to secrecy versus privacy.

In your last example I would say that privacy is a large part and the person asking was overstepping your personal boundaries. When you turned to secrecy you also chose to not tell the truth. You say there is no negative, but being dishonest isn't a positive. You chose to do so to protect your privacy and boundaries.

The manager you know sounds wise and knows how to use discretion and confidentiality, too. Probably if she reported every little incident to the CEO it would make her look bad rather than the employees she manages, and he has probably hired her as a manager to take care of such things so he can use his time where he chooses best. This form of 'secrecy' seems part of the job. If on the other hand the CEO demanded full reports on each and every employee she manages and she keeps things back, that would be a negative form of secrecy regarding her job description, but her employees may respect her better for it. In that case, there's a choice as to being honest with the employer or covering up for her employees. It's not about personal boundaries or privacy at all.
So, invariably are you saying that there is always negativity involved with secrecy? My opinion is - It need' t be. But, this distiniction is looking like very important for relating to hand features and giving readings Wink
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Post  Kiran.Katawa on Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:23 am

knox gillespie wrote:Radial loops , reveal a person who watches thoughts and thus has more inner space. I am like this and am selective about what I say and do with peopler, thus I am private.
Hi Knox, on which finger are you referring these?(the radial loops)?
In anycase, does the privacy come from radial loops?!
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Post  Patti on Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:10 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:
Patti wrote:One of the articles I read discussed motive in regards to secrecy versus privacy.

In your last example I would say that privacy is a large part and the person asking was overstepping your personal boundaries. When you turned to secrecy you also chose to not tell the truth. You say there is no negative, but being dishonest isn't a positive. You chose to do so to protect your privacy and boundaries.

The manager you know sounds wise and knows how to use discretion and confidentiality, too. Probably if she reported every little incident to the CEO it would make her look bad rather than the employees she manages, and he has probably hired her as a manager to take care of such things so he can use his time where he chooses best. This form of 'secrecy' seems part of the job. If on the other hand the CEO demanded full reports on each and every employee she manages and she keeps things back, that would be a negative form of secrecy regarding her job description, but her employees may respect her better for it. In that case, there's a choice as to being honest with the employer or covering up for her employees. It's not about personal boundaries or privacy at all.
So, invariably are you saying that there is always negativity involved with secrecy? My opinion is - It need' t be. But, this distiniction is looking like very important for relating to hand features and giving readings Wink

A member in another thread that I read yesterday or the day before, mentioned that they thought of themselves as secretive because they like doing things that are surprises for people. That is food for thought. It is regarding keeping a secret and the motive is to have an element of surprise, but is that really about secrecy or is it just keeping something secret for a temporary time and then it is no longer a secret. Would people describe her as secretive because of this or would they see her as someone who likes to do special things for others and surprise them?
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Post  Patti on Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:14 am

knox gillespie wrote:Radial loops , reveal a person who watches thoughts and thus has more inner space. I am like this and am selective about what I say and do with peopler, thus I am private.

I think one of the main characteristics of the radial loop is 'self oriented', not selfish, or self centered, but very aware of one's own perspective separate from others.

Thanks for sharing this insight of yourself.
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Post  knox gillespie on Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:00 pm

Radial loops on the index show high self awareness , yet the loops on the little and 3rd finger bring on photo or excellent memory. The degree of secret and privacy patterns is more dependent on transactions during life , which shows some what on the the saturn line..
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Post  Patti on Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:46 pm

knox gillespie wrote:Radial loops on the index show high self awareness , yet the loops on the little and 3rd finger bring on photo or excellent memory. The degree of secret and privacy patterns is more dependent on transactions during life , which shows some what on the the saturn line..

I have been noticing the radial loop on the middle and ring fingers quite more frequently lately. I'll try out the memory explanation next time I see one!

Ed Campbell pointed out in his theory that the higher a loop the more honest a person and the lower it leans the less important it is for someone to tell the truth. If this theory works, I would think the lower the loop would add a need for privacy or keeping things to themselves, as much as it would represent dishonesty.
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Post  Parender on Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:15 pm



Secret means something that should remain hidden from others (especially the information that is not to be passed on). For example - “She tried to keep her drinking a secret”.

If she (the same person) could not keep the secret a secret of one of her friends (about relationship for example), then what you will call her whether she is secretive or not where both are done and indulged secretly or covertly?

Secret means information or conduct that is not open or public; not revealing, conducting the hidden aims or methods. For examples - secret talks, an undercover investigation. This means not openly made known. It can be information given to someone in confidence not to reveal. If a secret communication is indulged covertly, then it becomes negative gesture of course. But secret cannot be negative always.

When a person is a secret agent he/she will have to keep the secret a secret whether he/she has whorls, arch or loop patterns on his/her fingertips.

This involves emotions and self control too so to know this the hand must be analyzed in totality as no sign is absolute in itself. In spite of all that you can tell the presence of ‘trend’ only, in a person. I think the master of love can do it (keeping the secret a secret) easily comparing to others.

The masters of love have the abilities to ‘establish and maintain’ satisfying relationship. They are both mentally and emotionally more adaptable and have more elasticity than others.


Enjoy!

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Post  Kiran.Katawa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:25 am

[quote="Patti"]
Patti wrote:
A member in another thread that I read yesterday or the day before, mentioned that they thought of themselves as secretive because they like doing things that are surprises for people. That is food for thought. It is regarding keeping a secret and the motive is to have an element of surprise, but is that really about secrecy or is it just keeping something secret for a temporary time and then it is no longer a secret. Would people describe her as secretive because of this or would they see her as someone who likes to do special things for others and surprise them?
So, there are different types of secrets
- Kept for personal purposes, 'coz one wants to be dishonest ( having an extra affair )
- Kept for personal purposes, 'coz one can't take a stand
- Kept for entertainment purposes, as is in the above ex.
- Kept for helping others, like in the manager's role
- Kept for job role sake, like in the case of investigating agencies, palmist not informing one's personal info.

Just wondering, if we can identify, these different traits combining the features of the hands.
Like I should be able to say - "You're secretive for job purposes or you're secretive 'coz, you're dishonest"!!
-
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Post  Kiran.Katawa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:29 am

knox gillespie wrote:The degree of secret and privacy patterns is more dependent on transactions during life , which shows some what on the the saturn line..
Hi Knox, can you pls elaborate on this?
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Post  Kiran.Katawa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:34 am

Parender wrote:


This involves emotions and self control too so to know this the hand must be analyzed in totality as no sign is absolute in itself. In spite of all that you can tell the presence of ‘trend’ only, in a person. I think the master of love can do it (keeping the secret a secret) easily comparing to others.

Hi Parenderji, yes, "trend" is a right word. B.t.w why do you associate this to "masters of love"?
I think - you're referring to the school of love or "master's of love" category in unger's system. right?
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Post  Kiran.Katawa on Tue Jul 10, 2012 1:35 am

So far, we have, the following 8 points, which tell the "trend" or the "tendency" towards keeping things secret/private:
1. Whorl finger print on index finger.
2. The gap between head line and heart line is less + Heart line is set low.
3. The pinkie curving in - May be related to body, sexual desires, hiding in communications
4. The skin should close in on the nails from both sides.
5. Thick middle phalanges of the fingers.
6. Heart line that curves upward toward the middle finger.
7. All the fingers held together.
8. Lower a loop, it leans the less important it is for someone to tell the truth( To be proved )

Any pointers for differentiating these tendencies.
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Post  anacaro21 on Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:52 am

Hi Kiran, wave

I have a spiral whorl on my right index finger, and from my point of view and based on the feedback here exposed, I can relate to both sides of the coin. Privacy will be more like Patti said with personal space and boundaries. I’m very picky with whom I bring in to my close self and as far secrecy goes to me it is a piece of information that comes as result of different types behaviors that is meant to be kept hidden whether it is acknowledged by a circle of friends or not. So? Do I have secrets yes, am I private person? Yes, for the most part I am .

I will put it this way:

Secret = hidden information for the purpose of not exposing self on being judged.

Privacy = undisclosed information for the purpose of own protection, avoidance of misunderstandings, keep it things shared to small group under control supervision and trust.

Hoped it helped it is based on my own experience.

Ana sunny


Last edited by anacaro21 on Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Parender on Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:34 am

Kiran.Katawa wrote:
Parender wrote:


This involves emotions and self control too so to know this the hand must be analyzed in totality as no sign is absolute in itself. In spite of all that you can tell the presence of ‘trend’ only, in a person. I think the master of love can do it (keeping the secret a secret) easily comparing to others.

Hi Parenderji, yes, "trend" is a right word. B.t.w why do you associate this to "masters of love"?
I think - you're referring to the school of love or "master's of love" category in unger's system. right?



Hi Kiranji,

Not school of love obviously because you know school of love can cause extensive destruction that could ruin them utterly and that could even check the general growth by making mistakes. For example, as in this case by revealing the secrets. School of love would have to go through learning lessons from their mistakes.

According to Richard Unger the masters of love have the abilities to ‘establish and maintain’ satisfying relationship. This involves emotions and self control too and they have mastery over their emotions. It gives them both authenticity and vulnerability skills.

They (masters of love) are both mentally and emotionally more adaptable and have more elasticity than others. Masters of love have the necessary skills to pilot the things. They can manage well. It gives them authenticity and vulnerability skills. Therefore I associated this with “Masters of Love”.

Your efforts in this regard are appreciated, because you are trying to establish the combinations between all the keys of palm reading as no sign is absolute in itself.

Thanks for adapting the word ‘trend’.

Enjoy!

Parender



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Post  anand_palm on Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:41 am

Hello All

I think people with arches pattern tend to be more secretive or dont let out thinghs.

Anand
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Post  kiwihands on Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:48 am

anacaro21 wrote:

Secret = hidden information for the purpose of not exposing self on being judged.

Privacy = undisclosed information for the purpose of own protection, avoidance of misunderstandings, keep it things shared to small group under control supervision and trust.

Hoped it helped it is based on my own experience.

Ana sunny

That way of putting it really resonates with me, thanks Ana. I like how you describe it from the inside out, with the self as a reference point. Thumbs up!
I have no whorls, but I can definitely relate!

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Post  knox gillespie on Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:24 pm

Kiran.Katawa wrote:
knox gillespie wrote:The degree of secret and privacy patterns is more dependent on transactions during life , which shows some what on the the saturn line..
Hi Knox, can you pls elaborate on this?

hi Kiran,
For example . if the saturn line is heading to the 3rd finger and then below the head line the Saturn line gets changed to a new course , close the life it moves, hugging it. Now the person is more protective of self, tight with themselves...Many times I see the opposite( heading now to the sunny side of Saturn) and it shows an opening of the person to more social trust and relating..
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Post  Kiran.Katawa on Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:08 am

knox gillespie wrote:
Kiran.Katawa wrote:
knox gillespie wrote:The degree of secret and privacy patterns is more dependent on transactions during life , which shows some what on the the saturn line..
Hi Knox, can you pls elaborate on this?

hi Kiran,
For example . if the saturn line is heading to the 3rd finger and then below the head line the Saturn line gets changed to a new course , close the life it moves, hugging it. Now the person is more protective of self, tight with themselves...Many times I see the opposite( heading now to the sunny side of Saturn) and it shows an opening of the person to more social trust and relating..
Hi Know, I got it. But, this has more to do with the life transactions having been more restrictive than keeping the information hidden or need for privacy. I have a broken Saturn line, where it takes new course after jumping outerside, towards Apollo. My life has become more outgoing, with this palmreading. However, I need to keep many secrets and also feel the need for having private time.
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Post  Kiran.Katawa on Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:13 am

Hi Ana, Parenderji, Anand and Knox,
thank you for your inputs.

Along with arch finger prints, we can also add "straight heart line ending under the mount of Saturn" for keeping the information within.

More than calling it as secret/privacy,
1. Its just the need or desire to keep the information with yourself.
2. Ability / willingness to disclose that you have kept some information within, for whatever reason.


1. Whorl finger print on index finger.
2. The gap between head line and heart line is less + Heart line is set low.
3. The pinkie curving in - May be related to body, sexual desires, hiding in communications
4. The skin should close in on the nails from both sides.
5. Thick middle phalanges of the fingers.
6. Heart line that curves upward toward the middle finger.
7. All the fingers held together. - For the fear of being judged. Unwilling to disclose
8. Lower a loop, it leans the less important it is for someone to tell the truth( To be proved )
9. Having arch fingerprints - - Suppress emotions and thoughts and keep them within. Its natural. No reasons.
10. Having heart line stopping under the middle finger - Keep emotions with in and can be reliable, can also keep others information within, if other parameters support. Its natural, No reasons.

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Post  anacaro21 on Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:01 am

Your both very welcome Kiran and Kiwihands flower
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Post  anand_palm on Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:24 am

Hello Kiran

There was a discussion with boaz on very thin upper lips, usually what i have heard very thin upper lips tend hide their feeling or in other words dont reveal their views or thoughts that easily. iam not sure whether this indication of secretive nature, but can be added to hidding emotions. Eventhough it is not part of palmistry, but face reading can intially be looked at.

Anand

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Post  anand_palm on Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:32 pm

Hello Kiran

I wa sjust thinking and thought about this

Secretive people need not respect privacy or in other words secretive people may intrude in other's privacy.

Anand

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Post  Roosi on Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:29 pm

Hi Kiran nice thread

The first private and secretive person that came to my mind is the best 20th-century street photographer - Chicago nanny Vivian Maier. She didn't share her photos with anyone in her lifetaime.
Her work was discovered by chance. She died in 2009 leaving behind 100,000 negatives that no one but she had ever seen. She was an intensely private person, she didn’t even like people to know her full name!
http://www.motherjones.com/media/2011/04/vivian-maier-john-maloof
I just like her photos. It is amazing.

I have whorls on my index fingers (+ right thumb) and like Patti I don't think of myself as secretive at all. I'm more like an open book. Ask and I will speak, just as much as I think that you need to know and no lie. May be it is selective input and output like zaob mentioned before (where this come from ? )
Need to privace played a huge roll in my childhood. Mainly because I was the eldest child of the family.

sunny
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Post  zaobhand on Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:46 pm

One thing to check out for privacy is how one feels as their bag is checked out by custom officials. I, for example, feel ad nauseam even though my belongings are usually rather innocent.
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Post  zaobhand on Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:51 pm

Roosi wrote:Hi Kiran nice thread

The first private and secretive person that came to my mind is the best 20th-century street photographer - Chicago nanny Vivian Maier. She didn't share her photos with anyone in her lifetaime.
Her work was discovered by chance. She died in 2009 leaving behind 100,000 negatives that no one but she had ever seen. She was an intensely private person, she didn’t even like people to know her full name!
http://www.motherjones.com/media/2011/04/vivian-maier-john-maloof
I just like her photos. It is amazing.

I have whorls on my index fingers (+ right thumb) and like Patti I don't think of myself as secretive at all. I'm more like an open book. Ask and I will speak, just as much as I think that you need to know and no lie. May be it is selective input and output like zaob mentioned before (where this come from ? )
Need to privace played a huge roll in my childhood. Mainly because I was the eldest child of the family.

sunny
Hi Roosi, Very nice example. Thanks for sharing. I just figured a whorl is an isolated pattern and therefore whorls are very selective about what goes in and goes out. It seems to fit the descriptions attributed to this pattern.
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Post  Kiran.Katawa on Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:58 am

Thank you Roosi and Boaz for additional inputs.
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