Your opinion & share...
Latest topics
» influence line
Today at 4:11 pm by Elis

» can we change the lines by working on it?
Today at 9:46 am by Naina02

» Hello from lil' ol' me
Yesterday at 8:52 pm by Ichor

» Do you read my hand?
Yesterday at 1:13 pm by pravin kumar

» Palmistry
Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:07 pm by Lynn

» Can someone plz read my palm
Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:32 am by pravin kumar

» marriage questions
Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:04 pm by lkofan246

» UPDATE - The new Palmistry websites TOP 100!!!
Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:28 am by Martijn (admin)

» Question about Krogman hand index
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:53 pm by Martijn (admin)

» Howdy Everyone!
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:30 pm by marilynmonroe

» Major Family Crisis? Break in Life line!
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:18 pm by Lynn

» Marriage and children
Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:13 pm by marilynmonroe

» <<<<<Hi Everyone >>>>>
Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:42 pm by Lynn

» Hello would like to know about my immigration issues in future
Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:40 pm by Lynn

» Rare Hand.
Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:44 pm by Lynn

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Who is online?
In total there are 49 users online :: 1 Registered, 0 Hidden and 48 Guests

rocko

[ View the whole list ]


Most users ever online was 293 on Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:22 am
Moderators & partners

• Discover the Modern Hand Reading Forum partners:

Would you like to see your website listed?

Modern Hand Reading Forum Partners

Pointing finger: check this out!

Statistics
We have 5077 registered users
The newest registered user is Jlad

Our users have posted a total of 42758 messages in 4217 subjects
Top posting users this week
pravin kumar
 
Elis
 
Ichor
 
lkofan246
 
marilynmonroe
 
Lynn
 
prashrockz
 
Naina02
 

Recommendations

• The FREE hand reading services at the Modern Hand Reading Forum are being continued in 2015 with the assistance of Google adsense!


Pointing finger: check this out!



Google+
MAJOR HAND READING SYNONYMS
Palmistry, Palm Reading, Hand Analysis, Chirology & Chiromancy.

Learn how to read hands according the Modern Hand Reading paradigm & you can use this forum as your palm reading guide!

V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Page 3 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 9, 10, 11  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:36 pm

I've now read the abstract completely and it's covered with highlighter, underlining and exclamation points! :-)

The only place that I can find where there is a description of the Suwon crease is on Page 176 of the paper.

"while Suwon creases have accessory II, which is close to I (fig. 3)"
*(see below for context)

Earlier in the paper it distinguishes the difference between minor lines and major lines in that a minor line is "narrower than the two times of the epidermal grove width in prints".

Most of us who have studied hands and the creases of the palms for many years would not have given the the lower, Proximal Tranverse Crease II the label of "Accessory". As it's the more commonly found head line than the upward rising crease they labeled II. It would seem the "Accessory" crease would be the rising crease to the heart line.

Basically, the only other guidelines presented are where it shows what the Suwon is not, by identifying Normal, Simian and Sydney.

I think we need more examples of the Suwon than just the one presented in the article.

Your example may be or may not be a Suwon. Your example is rather common in the sense it's quite close to matching a combination of Fig. 5's A (branches) and E (cascades). Yet it's depth is deeper than the head line (proximal transverse crease II) and matches the quality of the heart line. Your highlighting might be a bit subjective in your favor. I'm not convinced. My fifth sample is closer to their illustration. So I'll take the crown for the moment lol!
queen

I am pleased to note that they refer to the parallel nature of some creases, as this is something I've been working with in my readings for many years.

*
"Second, Sydney creases have accessory III, which is not close to any major palm creases, while Suwon creases have accessory II, which is close to I (Fig. 3). Third, simian creases have more branches than Sydney creases (Table 3; Fig. 4) because simian creases have two major palm creases, and Sydney creases have three major palm creases. Fourth, Sydney creases have more proximal branches than distal branches (Table 3; Fig. 4) because Sydney creases have distally-located accessory III (Fig 3). Fifth, the branched, forked, and accessory variants occur less in II than in I and III (Table 4; Fig. t) because II intervenes between I and III."


avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:08 pm

They have delineated the Suwon crease particularly from the Sydney crease as the Sydney has Accessory III (a stand alone heart line or fragments of a heart line above the Sydney line or long transversal head line).

It appears they are coming up with a name for a long transversal heart line in a palm that has a head line too. The headline they are calling Accessory II.

One more place they give a little description is in the caption in Fig. 3 "Suwon crease (D): II and III meet accompanied by accessory II.

Although it says II and III meet - which implies we should see 2 creases meeting, a Simian Crease is also described as the meeting of II and III. The simian crease does not always have features that allow us to see where II ends and III begins unless there are branches.

I'm thinking they are trying to identify/label a heart line that crosses the hand or a sort of simian crease that also has an (accessory) head line which comes close to the life line.

Can you follow this reasoning Martijn and Lynn - or anyone else following this topic?


Last edited by Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:14 pm

Patti wrote:
Your example may be or may not be a Suwon. Your example is rather common in the sense it's quite close to matching a combination of Fig. 5's A (branches) and E (cascades). Yet it's depth is deeper than the head line (proximal transverse crease II) and matches the quality of the heart line. Your highlighting might be a bit subjective in your favor. I'm not convinced. My fifth sample is closer to their illustration. So I'll take the crown for the moment lol!
queen

Dear queen ,

I have three more points for you to consider:

1 - Didn't you notice that Fig.5's A + E... BOTH do not have the 'transversal aspect'? (For, both in both cases there is no line which reaches out to the thumb-side of the palm!!!) While my example for sure has this aspect (and of course: your no.5 example as well!)

thinking ... Sorry, but to me your comment about A+E again illustrates that you still may not have understood the essential element of the 'Suwon crease'.


2 - Patti, can you tell me... WHERE is my highlighting 'subjective'???

(I think I have only illustrated all relevant lines with colors!!! How 'fair' is it to describe that as 'subjective'? Sorry, I see only your qualification - but I recognize that it has no ground... just like your earlier 'minor flaw'-qualification!)


3 - Yes, I have recognized how the researchers described for a minor line: "narrower than the two times of the epidermal grove width in prints". I had already integrated that specific guideline in my new research approach for the major hands lines (which I will present at a later stage).

And I am also aware that one could use that as an argument to qualify the yellow line in my example as a 'minor line'. But I think in this case the yellow line should not be classified as a 'minor line' because obviously it is an element of a larger constellation of multiple lines surrounding... and therefore an experienced observer SHOULD RECOGNIZE that one should avodi 'mis-use' of the researchers' guideline, etc.

For... in this hand ALL 3 major lines show at the beginning the characteristic of being composed by 'multiple' entangling minor lines. And so does the 'Suwon crease'!!

king

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:25 pm

Hi Martijn,
After coming to my most recent conclusion - I will say your female sample might be a Suwon. See the post that I posted just before your last.

But, if someone presented the hand to me that you presented, I don't think Simian or Sydney would come to mind. Perhaps the hand has too many creases to be sure. Can you find an example that is clearer.

Maybe that's why they eliminated the female hands - more creases and finer creases.

Can you find other guidelines besides: "II and III meet accompanied by accessory II" and "creases have accessory II, which is close to I"?
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:40 pm

Patti wrote:They have delineated the Suwon crease particularly from the Sydney crease as the Sydney has Accessory III (a stand alone heart line or fragments of a heart line above the Sydney line or long transversal head line).

It appears they are coming up with a name for a long transversal heart line in a palm that has a head line too. The headline they are calling Accessory II.

One more place they give a little description is in the caption in Fig. 3 "Suwon crease (D): II and III meet accompanied by accessory II.

Although it says II and III meet - which implies we should see 2 creases meeting, a Simian Crease is also described as the meeting of II and III. The simian crease does not always have features that allow us to see where II ends and III begins unless there are branches.


I'm thinking they are trying to identify/label a heart line that crosses the hand or a sort of simian crease that also has an (accessory) head line which comes close to the life line.

Can you follow this reasoning Martijn and Lynn - or anyone else following this topic?

Patti, regarding figure 3... let's keep it simple (Patti, the following provides also an answer to your final question in your 18:25 comment):

- In figure 3A they described the normal palm: two (incomplete) transversal lines: II and III;
- In figure 3B they described the classic simian: a fusion of the 2 transveral lines: II+III;
- In figure 3C they described a typical Sydney line (featured with strong element at the end) + a normal upper transversal line: II+III and accessory III;
- In figure 3D they described a 'Suwon crease' + a normal lower transverse crease: II+III and accessory II.

NOTICE: The word 'accessory' doesn't mean that it is less important - they only describe it secondary because obviously the crease-combination is always the key-issue to be considered!

And the reference in the text that II is close to line I... is not a key-element either: because in the accessory words featured with picture 3... I (= life line) is not mentioned at all!! Smile

But your green comments relate to the key-issue!! Thumbs up!


So, yes your comment makes perfect sense to me - though you better NEVER use the word 'simian line' when there is also a complete headline present!!

But despite that I can relate to your observation... your VOCABULARY does include another element of 'confusion' lol!

anyway, I notice significant PROGRESS in your responses! And thank you for confirming in your last message that you now can understand why I presented my example!!

cheers


___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:50 pm

I do believe we are basically on the same page now in understanding this feature.

In that sense and thinking of your example..... if someone presented a hand with Accessory III and Crease II with an ending similar to the ending of your Crease III would you call it a Sydney Crease or a long head line with branches?

I'm sorry about my vocabulary. I was aware I switched from crease to line and from distral transverse to heart line with no notice lol! I just was too much in the flow of thought and writing to go back and edit properly.

Shall we share the throne for the day! rolling on the floor
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:59 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:So, yes your comment makes perfect sense to me - though you better NEVER use the word 'simian line' when there is also a complete headline present!!


Guess that's why they needed a name for this crease.
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:07 pm

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:So, yes your comment makes perfect sense to me - though you better NEVER use the word 'simian line' when there is also a complete headline present!!


Guess that's why they needed a name for this crease.
Exactly!! Thumbs up!


Patti wrote:
In that sense and thinking of your example..... if someone presented a hand with Accessory III and Crease II with an ending similar to the ending of your Crease III would you call it a Sydney Crease or a long head line with branches?

Banana waving ... A Sydney line of course!!


Dear (edit) ms sunny flower ... if you need to 'take a breath': sure that's just fine, I hope it will help you to ease down your mind-flow. jocolor

Thumb up


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:24 pm

Haha! I like the sunny flower but it's Ms.

and now for my second large cup of coffee!

Thanks Martijn for indulging me in this discussion. I think these last few posts have made the concept much clearer to all - except we may have lost and confused everyone along the way.

queen sunny flower
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:45 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:And the reference in the text that II is close to line I... is not a key-element either: because in the accessory words featured with picture 3... I (= life line) is not mentioned at all!! Smile

I think that possibly the reason they mention Accessory II being close to I is so that a fragment 'head line' that may be in the middle of the palm or more ulnar isn't mistakenly used for Accessory II.

To support my thought for this is that on page 171 (bottom left) it says "The terminations points of I, II, and III were variable between individuals, while the starting points were constant." Their focus was most likely on the beginning of II.

It would have been helpful if in Fig. 7 they had included data for the Suwon's Accessory II the same as they did for Accessory III in the Sydney crease. It leaves you wondering if the diagram for the Sydney crease's II + III (bottom center illustration of Fig. 7) relates to the same start and ending points as for the Suwon. If so, then can we safely assume that Accessory II would have the same start and end points as in the chart for the II crease of the Normal creases (top middle illustration of Fig. 7)?
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:38 pm

Female left and right palms:





(these are from my classes where the students were learning to make prints - so excuse the quality - which looks like a freshly washed or sweaty palm that was overinked)
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:56 pm


Patti these prints for sure do NOT display an example of a 'Suwon crease' (the left hand can at best only be described as an 'incomplete simian line'... EDIT: plus a 'large interruption in the heart line').

Again, a 'Suwon crease' really requires to see a clear line reaching out to the SIDE of the palm - at the thumb-side! (Just like a Sydney line is required to cross the FULL PALM to the ulnar side of the palm)

So, both hands do not display THE essential characteristic of a 'Suwon crease'... ! Banana waving


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:02 pm

The right hand, top print does have all the qualifications of the Suwon crease!
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:07 pm

On the right hand I'd say the start is just as strong as your sample. Your sample fades as it approaches the radial edge. The quality of the print isn't good, but it has branching that can be detected as does the one you uploaded.

I added the left hand to show how the crease formed in the other hand. We typically look at both palms.

Perhaps Martijn you are adding more requirements than do the researchers?
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:18 pm

Patti wrote:The right hand, top print does have all the qualifications of the Suwon crease!
Sorry Patti, I think we better avoid ANY speculation based on low quality prints... I have illustrated your example with some colors: I think this is a typical 'splitting heart line'.
EDIT: Especially since there is hardly any difference between both branches!

I think it has NONE of the three typical characteristics of a 'Suwon crease' that I described earlier in this discussion.

EDIT: And I can add a fourth requirement: a true 'Suwon crease' typically has a strong beginning at the thumb-side of the palm... and formally the line should at least be wider than the width of 2 ridge lines. I think it is obviously that this print doesn't meet this 4th criterium either.


PS. I assume that you don't want to embrace the activity of seeing things that are not really there... and I have added the '?'-mark just to illustrate that there is for sure no clear evidence of a 'Suwon crease'.

Can you my observation as a fact? If not, please explain why!!




Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:30 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:p.s.:
Can we say that I *discovered* the first female Suwon in the world?

lol!

Sorry Patti, I though I already mentioned that I found myself as well a female 'Suwon crease'. (See below + I have described some of the details)

Can we agree that the example below propably is a 'Suwon crease'?


However, obviously... we are still struggling with how to define the 'Suwon crease' - but I think we can safely assume that it can be found in female hands as well.

(Possibly at a later stage we may need to adapt some of our observations regarding how to recognize a 'Suwon crease')



EXAMPLE OF A 'SUWON CREASE': Just like in the example of the Korean researchers the lower branch in this example is much stronger than the upper branch - and the lower branch even appears to be slightly stronger than the center part of the heart line. And it could be described as an extra line. The combination of these 3 elements makes me think that it could very well be described as a Suwon crease.

PS. This is a Dutch university student.



If we apply the same criteria to your sample, the creases at the radial edge may have nothing to do with the heartline - they may be simply empathy lines.
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:42 pm

Patti wrote:
If we apply the same criteria to your sample, the creases at the radial edge may have nothing to do with the heartline - they may be simply empathy lines.
Patti, can you please specify... !?

(I think I presented a high quality print: we can follow every detail of each ridge line, each minor line, and each of the major lines. And earlier in this discussion - after some additonal considerations - you sort of confirmed that my example is a good illustration for a 'Suwon crease'. EDIT: Your latest response appears to be evoked by my observations on your 'poor quality print'. Patti, what is your new 'objection' point really...???)


scratch


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:57 pm


Regarding the left hand... I observe an interesting repetition of elements: such 'signs' could also be used to make an evaluation; in this example it could be recognized as a confirmation that the lower branch is also belonging to the heart line.

Resulting in that this is probably not a 'splitting heart line', but it is a 'branching heart line'!

(I admit... this is only 'advanced' speculation: one could even argue that we are seeing a mix of small line parts belonging to the heart line + small line parts belonging to the head line; but I see no ground at all to associate this example with a 'Suwon crease')



___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:16 pm

I never associated the left hand with a Suwon, just the right one. I shared both hands of the same person. The Korean researchers looked at both hands. As you often request to see the other hand to help answer questions. Rolling Eyes

Your sample is made up of too many short branches. Some may be related to creases that form curving under the ring finger and unrelated to the heart line. Maybe instead of continuing to split straws or creases over this print - you could just present a better sample. Your sample's branches also fade as they approach the radial edge.

I said I could agree earlier because at that time the point being made was that the II crease connected to the III crease creating a long transverse crease. If you are stating that the beginning needs to be more precise than the right hand sample I uploaded - or closer to the radial edge - then that eliminates yours.

Looking at Fig. 7, the authors put a black dot for the beginning of the head line or II crease as the same place in the Normal, Simian and Sydney creases. We all know that these have more variance than they indicate. For Normal they only show the percentages for the endings yet show they all start at the same point. For the Simian and Sydney the same starting point but different distances from the distal edge of the palm.

This would seem to me, they are describing a *normal* start - not necessarily an extreme radial start. As you even said earlier you would describe a Sydney crease to include one that has branches taking it to the edge and fading as does yours.
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:32 pm

Patti wrote:I never associated the left hand with a Suwon, just the right one. I shared both hands of the same person. The Korean researchers looked at both hands. As you often request to see the other hand to help answer questions. Rolling Eyes
Patti, presenting both hands is of course perfectly fine!

But before your last comment (quoted above) you hadn't mention why you presented both hands of one person. So far you hand only presented one hand for each case, so... how could I know that in this example you basically only wanted to hear feedback on the right hand ???

Anyway, thanks for explaining!! Thanks!



PS. I will later make an additional comment regarding your other thoughts.

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:39 pm

I can understand that since I didn't mention why I uploaded both hands.

I've sent an email to the author mentioning the female samples and inviting them to take a look at our discussion and maybe even provide us with some stronger guidelines.
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:41 pm

Patti wrote:
Your sample is made up of too many short branches. Some may be related to creases that form curving under the ring finger and unrelated to the heart line. Maybe instead of continuing to split straws or creases over this print - you could just present a better sample. Your sample's branches also fade as they approach the radial edge.

I said I could agree earlier because at that time the point being made was that the II crease connected to the III crease creating a long transverse crease. If you are stating that the beginning needs to be more precise than the right hand sample I uploaded - or closer to the radial edge - then that eliminates yours.

Patti, I think you have started to translating my words into 'out-of-context' conclusions: basically I only tried to describe that the start of a headline really needs to be clearly visible...!!

In the case in my 'high quality' female-example the lines are clearly visible. But obviously this can not be said about your 'low quality' example: where we can only see 'dots'. Yes, some of them could relate to line parts - but we can not be sure about that!

And of course... you're welcome to present a higher quallity version of the same hand.

confused But regarding your 'attempt' to compare my quality print with your poor-quality print... how could that add to the quality of this discussion???


Regarding your observation that "too many short branches" are involved in my first (female) example, sorry... but I think all lines that I labeled with color (yellow + orange) are very clear, and some of them definitely meet the researchers definition of a primary line. So, I can not agree with your observation that in my female-example the lines are 'fading'.

I also do think that my female-example actually very much resembles the characteristics... of my VERY FIRST male-example that I presented earlier in this discussion, see: 21 Sep 2010 - 12:13 (see the second example below).

By the way, did you actually notice that you actually that example??? If so, I wonder why you ask for another example... without a discussion of that one.


Anyway, I'll add another example (third example below) of my collection... so that you can STUDY the common details in my sample of 3 examples.


PS. So far I have observed that your no.5 example does have the same three characteristics that I described earlier in this discussion:

- (1) the extra line creates a transversing line variant in the palm;
- (2) the extra line has (at least partly) a different structure than the structure of the heart line (which should indicate that there are two different lines involved);
- (3) the extra line has a likewise strong (or stronger) structure as the first half of the head line.

(But ALL other examples that you've presented... sorry, I have lost counting - do not meet more than 1 of these three 'requirements')

3 EXAMPLES OF A 'SUWON CREASE':


FEMALE 1:




MALE 1:




MALE 2:


___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:51 pm

Patti wrote:I can understand that since I didn't mention why I uploaded both hands.

I've sent an email to the author mentioning the female samples and inviting them to take a look at our discussion and maybe even provide us with some stronger guidelines.
Thumbs up! Thumbs up!

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:20 pm

Thanks Martijn.

If it's simply the quality of the print, I agree.

I do see the similarity between the chained and branched of your female sample and your 1st male sample. I still have my reservations on the female hand you've presented. Your highlighting does emphasize what you want us to see. (for some reason I'm unable to use color in Microsoft Word, Word Pad or Paint or I would highlight another perspective)

Here's a very clear male sample:



avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: V - REPORT: Korean researchers discovered the 'Suwon crease', only observed in males!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:50 pm


Yes Patti,

We agree on your latest example:

I think it displays all major requirements to be recognized as a 'Suwon crease' (except that we can not see the last quarter of an inch in the radial zone involved - but the line appears to be very solid so in this case one could 'quite safely' assume that it does reach out to the SIDE of the palm).

So, if I had found that handprint in one of my samples, I would have counted it as a 'Suwon crease'.



___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5184
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 11 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 9, 10, 11  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum