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Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

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Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  mark seltman on Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:44 pm

Hi, my name is Mark Seltman. I'm 65 years old and here to share what I've learned about reading hands. I'm working full time at writing and speaking about palmistry and reading thousands of hands. My busiest season is from October through December, so my participation in this forum may be a bit erratic until the new year (2013). I look forward to presenting a whole new approach to hand analysis and palmistry and to learning from your feedback as well.

Meanwhile, check out my website http://www.markseltman.com/ and my blog and feel free to comment and respond. You're welcome to friend me on facebook. I look forward to meeting you in cyberspace.

mark seltman

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:43 pm


Hi Mark,

Your rich experience & input is very welcome!

Thumbs up!



___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

Martijn (admin)
Admin

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  tajender on Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:04 pm

This is quite interesting to read from your blog Mark.

My least favorite modern palmistry book
Posted on 08/23/2012

"I have many unfavorite palmistry books. Some call themselves encyclopedias or guides for beginners. One former # 1 best selling palmistry book on Amazon.com is Palmistry: Apprentice to Pro in 24 Hours by Johnny Fincham (Amazon Sales Rank 49,710 at the time). This is one book that truly can’t be judged by its cover. The front cover describes the content as “the easiest palmistry training course ever written”. The back has five rave sound bites from expert authorities that know little to nothing about reading hands. The Daily Mail described Johnny as “Britain’s leading palmist” on the cover.

I will never recommend this book to anyone who wants to learn palmistry. Johnny begins by telling his readers to ignore hand shape. That’s the # 1 most important factor in reading hands. Knowing hand shapes enables readers to readily identify one of four basic Jungian archetypes (intuitive, thinking, feeling, and sensation) like a Myers Briggs psychological test incarnate.

Johnny confidently instructs readers to ignore anything that appears “normal” in the hands. Until you know what’s “normal”, all details are superficial. Details are important, but trivial without first establishing basic character. Each detail needs to be examined in the context of the whole and all other details at the same time. One danger of interpreting details out of context is in substituting one form of pre-determinism for another by reducing individuality to cookbook formulas.

Traditionally, an index finger is” Jupiter”. Johnny’s version is the “Mirror finger” The middle finger is “Saturn”. Johnny’s is the “Wall finger”. The ring finger is “Apollo” or Johnny’s “Peacock finger”. The pinky finger is “Mercury” or Johnny’s “Antenna finger”. Metaphor is useful, but much better when tied to real mythology. Too much esoteric, clever, and cutesy jargon is very confusing. Johnny peppers his book with pictures of celebrities, and then never really examines them. He mentions two case histories of clients, but then fails to produce relevant background information or basic understanding of their character. Johnny analyzes a variety of details, and then gives his client’s response as to how “wonderful” and how “right” he was. They can’t wait to sign up for his next workshop. Johnny’s “Secret Palmist Assignments” for his readers are superficial at best. If this is a best selling palmistry book for the 21st century, it’s reprehensible for me at age 65, not to take full responsibility for sharing my knowledge and experience with the public."


http://blog.markseltman.com/2012/09/21/my-least-favorite-modern-palmistry-book/


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Link to Mark's blog added)

tajender

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:40 am


Well, I think Mark's analysis includes quite a few interesting points - including some critical observations (most are valide points in my view) regarding Fincham's second book.

By the way, maybe it is interesting to add here that Johnny's second book is currently by far the most popular book about hand reading in the world (with almost 900 copies sold via the Amazon network during the past year).

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5105
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  GM(Ghulam MURTAZA) on Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:41 pm

Sorry PM


regards

GM

GM(Ghulam MURTAZA)

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  tajender on Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:58 pm

Which critical points you are refering Martijn. I have a feeling that somehow you promote Johny's book and in all other boos you find errors. It will be nice if you could also find something not correct in his book too.

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Well, I think Mark's analysis includes quite a few interesting points - including some critical observations (most are valide points in my view) regarding Fincham's second book.

By the way, maybe it is interesting to add here that Johnny's second book is currently by far the most popular book about hand reading in the world (with almost 900 copies sold via the Amazon network during the past year).

tajender

Posts : 43
Join date : 2011-09-18

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:53 pm

tajender wrote:Which critical points you are refering Martijn. I have a feeling that somehow you promote Johny's book and in all other boos you find errors. It will be nice if you could also find something not correct in his book too.

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Well, I think Mark's analysis includes quite a few interesting points - including some critical observations (most are valide points in my view) regarding Fincham's second book.

By the way, maybe it is interesting to add here that Johnny's second book is currently by far the most popular book about hand reading in the world (with almost 900 copies sold via the Amazon network during the past year).

Hi Tajender,

I have described that I actually support Mark's critical observations regarding Johnny's second book: again, I described Mark's observations as valide (= solid & correct) points.

But I can specify...

In general, one should better never ever exclude the 'hand shape' from any hand analysis, for... that is actually the first step to get lost in the details of a hand.

I could add to Mark's observations that many celebrity hand illustrations inside the book are not useful at all... simply because most of them are rather (too) small and often the author refers to characteristics that can not be judged because the palms/fingers are not fully stretched at all.


And despite that I like the author's 'fifth rule' (= read the whole palm)... the themes inside his book are very hard to find due to the missing of an index.

(Regarding this final point, Fincham's 2nd book 'The Spellbinding Power of Palmistry' is much more workable because it does have an index and it does treat the topic hand shape - so for me it is not surprising that many more experts prefered to recommend Fincham's first book, and not his second book)

I hope my position regarding Fincham's 2nd book now is more clear?


wave

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5105
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

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Thank you Mark Seltman

Post  guypalm on Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:26 am

Dear Mr. Seltman,

I am posting this to express my deep sense of relief upon reading your postings.

My personal opinion of Johnny Fincham is that he's a showman and a totally useless source of palmistry knowledge. I have been amazed by the fact that so called 'researchers' and those who look for scientific basis in palmistry recommend his books.

I have long held the belief that most palm readers are of such low calibre that they are unable to identify a bogus author even when his dubious work stares them right in the face.

I registered just yesteday simply to tell you how relieved I am that there is at least one individual who is able to point out Mr. Fincham's books as pieces of entertainment rather than serious reading.

To those who disagree with my view above (& I'm sure there will be lots of them), I'd like to say: Examine your own knowledge & your own assumptions and beliefs. Be skeptical about your own skepticism. Don't imprison yourself in new versions of narrow thought & close-minded paradigms .

I am not here to argue with anyone. This is my personal opinion & also serves as a 'Thank You' note to Mr. Seltman.

Mr. Seltman, I look forward to your posts that will enrich many people's insight into the palm.

Thanks once again.



guypalm

Posts : 34
Join date : 2012-09-26

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Sep 27, 2012 8:44 am


Hello mister 'guypalm',

Wow, I have never heard anyone calling Fincham a 'showman', nor a 'bogus author'.

Not sure that those words cover Mark's review... and actually, I am not sure that those words can be justified in the perspective of the content of Fincham's work.

Unfortunately, you also expressed: 'I am not here to argue with anyone'; maybe this explains why you have not even bothered to explain why you called Fincham a 'bogus author'.... ???

... scratch

(Your choice of words makes me wonder about whether you also support Mark's review of Cheiro's work on his blog - because... if there has been any hand reader in the field of hand reading who can be described as a 'showman' and a 'bogus author', my first association would be Cheiro - due to e.g. his many grandeur stories).


By the way, despite that it appears that you are not interest to exchange arguments... maybe you are willing to share some names of authors that you do like?

wave

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5105
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

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Just sayin....

Post  caledonia on Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:12 am

I like this reply from Martijn...not that my opinion matters to anybody.

Haven't "contributed" in some time and this seemed an opportunity, heh, heh.

May get deleted and you may never see it, though.

Unfortunately I studied probability and statistics, so find it difficult to enter into the spirit of most palmistry and fortune telling.

caledonia

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:01 am

Nice to see you here Mark. Welcome to the group.
Was going thru your blog articles and press releases.
In the case of "instyle-joey-lawrence", you're mentioning that "Lawrence is better at showing his feelings than verbalizing them. Hey, its OK to talk about it.". He has straight heart line.
Do you associate straight heart line to expressing of feelings?
Usually, all authors associate it to being talkative.


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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  Lynn on Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:00 am

catching up with this thread that I couldn't reply to when I was away on holiday.

Thanks for sharing your website & interesting blog Mark. Some interesting comments on this thread. (edit - PS please forgive my lack of manners, I was so keen to get into the discussion, I forgot to say - welcome Mark, it is good to meet you here Very Happy .Your valuable long-term experience would be of great benefit to the forum )

Just to pick up on your first point about Johnny's book "Apprentice to Pro in 24 hours" -
I will never recommend this book to anyone who wants to learn palmistry. Johnny begins by telling his readers to ignore hand shape. That’s the # 1 most important factor in reading hands.
As I understand it, the reason Johnny left handshape out of this second book was because many people have difficulty in assessing handshape. As handshape is usually the first chapter in any book, students can fall at the first hurdle. So, he left it out of his 2nd book so they could get on with other things that they may be less likely to struggle with (after all, it is only a 24 hour course). But he includes handshape in his first book "Spellbinding Power of Palmistry", which personally I prefer to "Apprentice to Pro".

guypalm said
My personal opinion of Johnny Fincham is that he's a showman and a totally useless source of palmistry knowledge.
In a sense I agree about Johnny being something of a showman, in the sense of the definition "a person skilled at presenting anything in an effective manner", and in the sense that he can present palmistry with some drama, bringing it to life. But for sure he isn't a snake-oil salesman type of showman! I completely disagree about him being a useless source of palmistry knowledge. Johnny knows his stuff inside-out, and is a great, lively, interesting teacher. I would be interested to hear more about why you class him as a bogus author.

caledonia said
not that my opinion matters to anybody.......May get deleted and you may never see it, though.
Of course your opinion matters, everyone's opinion is important here. Not everyone will agree with everyone's opinion, but they all play a part in the discussions and all matter! Very few posts get deleted by the mods on this forum. Of course we have deleted a few offensive ones and spammers, and sometimes people delete their own posts, but really very few posts have been deleted/moderated since the forum began.

Kiran said
"Lawrence is better at showing his feelings than verbalizing them. Hey, its OK to talk about it.". He has straight heart line.
Do you associate straight heart line to expressing of feelings?
Usually, all authors associate it to being talkative.

Kiran can you give examples of authors who said a straight heartline is talkative? I honestly can't think of any at this moment! Straight heartline will usually sit low under the mounts, rather than the curved line that comes out between the fingers, thus keeping the feelings inwards & not easily expressed out into the world. I read Mark's blog post as saying that people need to look at what Lawrence is DOING rather than what he is saying as he may not express his feelings verbally, but his actions may give them away. (Mark please correct me if I misunderstood you).

tajender I felt you'd misunderstood Martijn's first post, as he was agreeing with Mark about some critical points. I would be interested to see your response to Martijn's reply to you.

___________________________________________
Lynn
www.handanalysis.co.uk

Lynn

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  Mota on Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:10 am

Mark, you have a very interesting blog. Thank you for your book recommendations. I have always passed on "Hand Psychology" but based on your recommendation I ordered it. I look forward to reading your thoughts.

Mota

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:56 am

Lynn wrote:
Kiran said
"Lawrence is better at showing his feelings than verbalizing them. Hey, its OK to talk about it.". He has straight heart line.
Do you associate straight heart line to expressing of feelings?
Usually, all authors associate it to being talkative.

Kiran can you give examples of authors who said a straight heartline is talkative? I honestly can't think of any at this moment! Straight heartline will usually sit low under the mounts, rather than the curved line that comes out between the fingers, thus keeping the feelings inwards & not easily expressed out into the world. I read Mark's blog post as saying that people need to look at what Lawrence is DOING rather than what he is saying as he may not express his feelings verbally, but his actions may give them away. (Mark please correct me if I misunderstood you).
Hi Lynn, No. Its not talkative. I should have used the term - "Not expressive/do not talk" and that's what I meant here.Thanks for pointing out.

Kiran.Katawa

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So elated

Post  estelle on Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:12 pm

Hi Mark,
I wish I had more time but just had to reply. I am so excited about your quote from the old testament. I thought this to myself many years ago while studying the Bible. I have often looked into my own hand, my husbands, and both of my children. I can see so much and even feel the vibrations. I love the way you write, and look forward to reading your posts. I too have seen lines change and been amazed. I had my palm read when I was nine years old and the reader looked at me in astonishment before she spoke. This experience awed me for the rest of my life and have been sad at times when info was oh so scarce. I have been waiting for a forum like this for such a long time.
Yours sincerely,
Estelle.

estelle

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a quick answer to everyone's comments

Post  mark seltman on Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:39 pm

First of all, I want to apologize for not responding more quickly. September through December is my busiest season and I frequently read as many as 300 sets of hands in a week (five-minute quickies at special events), have private clients during the day, spend as much time as possible writing, in addition to all the mundane stuff that constantly needs to be done. I hope to spend more time being responsive to comments after the new year.

That being said, I'm pleased that so many of you went to check out my website, blog, and press materials, etc. Of all the things to talk about, though, I was surprised that so many chose to respond to a superficial magazine column. You should take everything you read in the mass media with a grain of salt. Much of what I offered the publisher when I looked at the hands of Joey Lawrence and other celebrities was not included, edited until it's unrecognizable, or manipulated to please Instyle's audience. I've been misquoted and misrepresented numerous times over the years. I keep going because I need the $ and publicity. My blog http://blog.markseltman.com/ is the only place you'll get my honesty.

mark seltman

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In support of Johnny Fincham

Post  Lori on Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:35 pm

Johnny Fincham's second book gives the reader a good understanding of palmistry. It is a good book for anyone who is interested in palmistry and after reading the book would have a clear appreciation of the aspects of reading a palm. He does not address the hand shape because so many of us are mixed shapes that do fit a hand shape. My own hand is mixed and I was very confused when first learning when I didn't "fit" into a hand shape and could relate to some qualities in different hand shapes.
Johnny knows palmistry and is a really good teacher through his books and workshops. My own experience learning from Johnny was excellent - knowledgeable, with good examples and stories to illustrate meanings and how to interpret features on the hand as well as, entertaining. I have taken a lot of workshops and have to say Johnny was one of my finest teachers.

Lori

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Re: Greetings from a full-time professional palmist for 35 years

Post  mark seltman on Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:10 pm

Lori wrote:Johnny Fincham's second book gives the reader a good understanding of palmistry. It is a good book for anyone who is interested in palmistry and after reading the book would have a clear appreciation of the aspects of reading a palm. He does not address the hand shape because so many of us are mixed shapes that do fit a hand shape. My own hand is mixed and I was very confused when first learning when I didn't "fit" into a hand shape and could relate to some qualities in different hand shapes.
Johnny knows palmistry and is a really good teacher through his books and workshops. My own experience learning from Johnny was excellent - knowledgeable, with good examples and stories to illustrate meanings and how to interpret features on the hand as well as, entertaining. I have taken a lot of workshops and have to say Johnny was one of my finest teachers.

Really glad to hear of your positive experience. I only read Johnny's "apprentice to pro in 24 hours book", which was apparently a good name for marketing, though it's misleading. We all know that it takes years of diligent practice to become a real professional palmist.

As for mixed hand shape, it's important to figure out the mixture. There is still a dominant element in the hands and it's up the observer to judge what that is.

mark seltman

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