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Loop of memory or not?

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Sue Miller on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:23 pm

hehe which tri radii - under index or at neptune, don't see another one on this print of left hand and can't look cos of cast! do see you my bee on venus , i do love music and can sing a bit, but better within a group.
i'll look through my collection and see if i have other prints of mine so i can check the tri radii
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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:34 pm

Sue Miller wrote:hehe which tri radii - under index or at neptune, don't see another one on this print of left hand and can't look cos of cast! do see you my bee on venus , i do love music and can sing a bit, but better within a group.
i'll look through my collection and see if i have other prints of mine so i can check the tri radii

At Neptune.
I did see your bee and wondered about that! I always love getting mail from far off places! I'll send you a PM!
flower
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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Sue Miller on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:40 pm

yes the tri radii is just in that bit at neptune that is not clearly printed
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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  missfreeze on Thu Mar 28, 2013 9:16 pm

Hello Patti,

Love all this info about the loop of memory.
And I couldn't help myself checking all my prints for the loop of memory.
I found, I think, an elongated raja loop in my granddad's hand.
It's hard to see though.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62953866@N03/8597855451/

And he has a normal raja loop aswel.

Can you tell me if this is correct?
I didn't asked him yet if he recognized anything from the Synesthesia symptoms.

Astrid

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:58 am

missfreeze wrote:Hello Patti,

Love all this info about the loop of memory.
And I couldn't help myself checking all my prints for the loop of memory.
I found, I think, an elongated raja loop in my granddad's hand.
It's hard to see though.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62953866@N03/8597855451/

And he has a normal raja loop aswel.

Can you tell me if this is correct?
I didn't asked him yet if he recognized anything from the Synesthesia symptoms.

Astrid

That is so cool! Thank you Astrid! How fascinating to have both loops. It's also interesting that he has the raja loop and the 'humor' loop, but is missing the middle or responsibility loop. Usually the raja appears alone or with the other two interdigital loops. He must be a very interesting person with a keen mind. Looking forward to seeing the results of tracing the main lines!

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:37 am



Astrid, your granddad's ridges are pretty amazing! He has the missing C even though there are two triradii between the ring and little fingers. What's even more interesting is the 'memory loop' is a 2nd raja loop!

Other than mixed senses, I would be curious about keen senses. Can he see in the dark? See infrared? Does/did he think of himself as 'sure-footed'.

With a double 'raja loop' then there'd also be the idea of charisma and natural leadership qualities.

Would love to hear anything you can share!

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  missfreeze on Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:29 pm

Patti wrote:
Astrid, your granddad's ridges are pretty amazing! He has the missing C even though there are two triradii between the ring and little fingers. What's even more interesting is the 'memory loop' is a 2nd raja loop!

Other than mixed senses, I would be curious about keen senses. Can he see in the dark? See infrared? Does/did he think of himself as 'sure-footed'.

With a double 'raja loop' then there'd also be the idea of charisma and natural leadership qualities.

Would love to hear anything you can share!


Hi Patti,

I just phoned my granddad. But he is a no nonsense man.
He laughed about my questions.
He said that he isn't superstitious. So maybe he didn't understand me.
I tried to explain but he did't get it.
He did react positive when I asked him about his keen senses.
But he said: That's not something you say about yourself.

What I know about my granddad is that little children (baby's) alway want to sit at his lap.
They will stop crying when they sat with him.
Except for my son Neutral but he has a normal raja aswel.
And my granddad is not much of a speaker. He's always quiet. Doesn't mind anyone's business.
I think of him as a hard working (84 and still a volunteer at the petting zoo) never complaining man. Sometimes a bit of a teaser. And a great granddad to build huts in the woods with.
Everyone who meets my granddad will say afterwards: What a great man is that!
While he probably didn't say that much.

I will call my aunt. Maybe she can tell me something more.

Thanks for looking at his hand Patti!

Btw in his right hand he has a humor loop and a loop of seriousness.



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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:04 pm

Great feedback Astrid!
What grabs my attention most is his connection with young children and animals.

When he said he wasn't superstitious, I wonder if that was him thinking about this as a metaphysical thing (palmistry) rather than the view as more about a psychological map of the mind.

I'm looking forward to your aunt's response as she would be aware of his gifts and he seems too modest to make any claims for anything special. (which leads me to think there is something special) Wink

Thanks!
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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  kiwihands on Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:45 am

Hi Astrid,

thanks for posting your granddad's hands and feedback! I'm quite fascinated by his case and eagerly await your aunt's response as well. He seems to be a very special guy. In the mean time, would you be able to post his full hands please? I'm particularly interested in seeing his fingerprints...

Thanks!

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  missfreeze on Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:18 pm

Hello Patti and Kiwihands,

Well, I asked my aunt and unfortunately she couldn't give me more information.
But for kiwihands I'll poste his full hands:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62953866@N03/8613457654/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62953866@N03/8613457916/in/photostream/

His fingerprints are hard to see.
Especially his right Jupiter because the top of his finger is missing.
His thumbs and mercury are loops on both hands.
The saturnfinger on the right is hard to see but I guess it's a whorl just like all the other fingers. (except for mercury and the thumbs)

Patti, I have another print with the same kind of loop of memory I think.
It's my stepsisters. I asked her aswel, if she recognized something about the mixed senses.
But she didn't. So, maybe I am not tracing the right ridges or I am not seeing things right.
She does have a very good memory. She knows an awful lot of lyrics. And she doesn't need to hear that song and isn't a musician. Just name a song and she can tell you the lyrics.
She has also a very good memory as far as her childhood concerns.
And people tend to tell all there problems to her without asking. They just do that.
Maybe that has something to do with an alongated raja loop.

I have posted a print of her hand here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62953866@N03/8598958110/in/photostream/

I wonder if this is an alongated raja loop.

Astrid

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  kiwihands on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:18 pm

Thanks Missfreeze!

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:38 pm

missfreeze wrote:Hello Patti and Kiwihands,

Well, I asked my aunt and unfortunately she couldn't give me more information.
But for kiwihands I'll poste his full hands:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62953866@N03/8613457654/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62953866@N03/8613457916/in/photostream/

His fingerprints are hard to see.
Especially his right Jupiter because the top of his finger is missing.
His thumbs and mercury are loops on both hands.
The saturnfinger on the right is hard to see but I guess it's a whorl just like all the other fingers. (except for mercury and the thumbs)

Patti, I have another print with the same kind of loop of memory I think.
It's my stepsisters. I asked her aswel, if she recognized something about the mixed senses.
But she didn't. So, maybe I am not tracing the right ridges or I am not seeing things right.
She does have a very good memory. She knows an awful lot of lyrics. And she doesn't need to hear that song and isn't a musician. Just name a song and she can tell you the lyrics.
She has also a very good memory as far as her childhood concerns.
And people tend to tell all there problems to her without asking. They just do that.
Maybe that has something to do with an alongated raja loop.

I have posted a print of her hand here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62953866@N03/8598958110/in/photostream/

I wonder if this is an alongated raja loop.

Astrid

Hi Astrid! Thank you! I'm enjoying this discussion very much and it's led to some interesting discoveries. So far, with a very small number of examples (from here and other resources), it looks like the mixed senses is not directly related to the raja or memory. I do think there is a difference between the two from the feedback I'm getting, but need more examples and verification. In your granddad I think there's a connection between this loop and his ease with children and animals. I'll write more about it soon.

Thanks for sharing your step-sister's prints and Granddad's full hands!! I'll download them now and look. I may not have time to get back to you until later this evening my time.

Thanks! Thumbs up!
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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:59 am

missfreeze wrote:

Patti, I have another print with the same kind of loop of memory I think.
It's my stepsisters. I asked her aswel, if she recognized something about the mixed senses.
But she didn't. So, maybe I am not tracing the right ridges or I am not seeing things right.
She does have a very good memory. She knows an awful lot of lyrics. And she doesn't need to hear that song and isn't a musician. Just name a song and she can tell you the lyrics.
She has also a very good memory as far as her childhood concerns.
And people tend to tell all there problems to her without asking. They just do that.
Maybe that has something to do with an alongated raja loop.

I have posted a print of her hand here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62953866@N03/8598958110/in/photostream/

I wonder if this is an alongated raja loop.

Astrid

Hi Astrid,
It looks like she has the elongated raja too!! Thanks for sharing about her memory!



(I added the green lines trying to see the approximate area where the other boundary of the loop might be - it's mostly a guess and not important in deciding the origin of the loop)


It is interesting to note that in "Finger Prints, Palms & Soles" they say there are 3 loops that form in the hypothenar area. Those that open from the radial margin, the ulnar margin and the proximal margin. They do not mention from the distal or interdigital area between the index and middle fingers except in the category of interdigital loops, however they do not mention how deep into the palm these loops can go.

Therefore, I would continue to call it an 'elongated raja loop'.

Do the people we've identified with this pattern have any special abilities with charisma and charm? Good people reading skills? Telepathic? Finish other people's sentences? (I think you're granddad is probably telepathic to some degree, but just wouldn't talk about it)

Thanks!
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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:26 am

missfreeze wrote:
And people tend to tell all there problems to her without asking. They just do that.
Maybe that has something to do with an alongated raja loop.

Astrid

I think this probably relates in some way! Thumbs up!

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  missfreeze on Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:07 pm

Hi Patti,

I think this is a very interesting subject.
Thanks for all the information.
I guess 'Finger Prints, Palms & Soles' is a book.
Maybe I should buy that book.
The dermatoglyphics are my favorite.
And I have so much to learn.

I have another subject that keeps me thinking. I don't know if this is worth it. And maybe it has to have a topic of it's own.
But I have seen this several times.
There is no triad under the ring finger and the triad under the pink and the middle finger go in each others direction. They don't reach each other. That would probably even more special.
Well, I dond't know actually.
Here is a print with what I mean.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62953866@N03/8629227864/in/photostream

About my stepsister and granddad I can tell that people like to be with them.
And really like to talk to them. Even when they don't say that much.
They have that in common. And I don't know anybody who hates them or says unkind things about them.

Astrid

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:59 pm

Hi Astrid!
The pattern of rings making a half circle under the ring finger is known as 'missing c' as it's missing the the 'c' triradius under the ring finger. Your granddad has this, too. He has two triradii in the general area, but both are related to little finger.

It's most commonly found under the ring finger, but I have a long time friend who has this under both little fingers.

Some books call it a necklace or a collar because of how it looks.

"Finger Prints Palms & Soles" is long out of print, hard to find and usually very expensive. I think mine was worth every penny I spent on it. It describes the ridges in detail and the frequency of how often various configurations are found. If I were to be allowed to keep one book from my large collection of palmistry books and books about hands, this would be the one I couldn't be without. Next would be "Dermatoglyphics in Medical Disorders" by Schaumann & Alter.
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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  missfreeze on Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:26 pm

Thanks for all of your information Patti.
Yesterday I checked the internet for Finger Prints Palms & Soles.
I thought I was looking in the wrong place.
The cheapest one was $218 and the most expensive $2.098 Shocked
I laughed about it. But now I know it was probably the right price Crying or Very sad

Do you know if the 'missing c' does mean anything?

Astrid

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:50 pm

missfreeze wrote:Thanks for all of your information Patti.
Yesterday I checked the internet for Finger Prints Palms & Soles.
I thought I was looking in the wrong place.
The cheapest one was $218 and the most expensive $2.098 Shocked
I laughed about it. But now I know it was probably the right price Crying or Very sad

Do you know if the 'missing c' does mean anything?

Astrid

Wow! I paid $75 a little more than ten years ago and thought that was expensive! The price printed on the outside cover in my 1961 edition of the paperback book is $1.98!

I think the missing c has something to do with how a person relates to their home environment. Their personal space and how it looks - ambiance - is important to them.

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  missfreeze on Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:14 pm

Hahaha $1.98??? You should make some copies. Or a digital version.
I'll buy one for $75 Wink

Again thanks for the info!

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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:51 pm

Sue Miller wrote:patti, i could send the originals to your address where you live if you want, i can get new prints from my palms when i get the cast off my wrist, whadddya think?
sue

happy move They made it across the great pond yesterday, but I didn't pick up my mail until this morning! yea!!!! Thank you for sharing! I'll write more later when I've had a chance to study them.

Thanks!
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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Sue Miller on Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:26 am

glad you got them,hope they are useful to you, my messages are a bit clipped at the moment, it will be better when i get my pot off my wrist...... which is Monday...hurray!
Sue
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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Patti on Thu Apr 11, 2013 5:16 pm

Sue Miller wrote:glad you got them,hope they are useful to you, my messages are a bit clipped at the moment, it will be better when i get my pot off my wrist...... which is Monday...hurray!
Sue

Good for you to have your wrist healed and freed from restrictions! In the 'there's got to be a reason for that' department - have you wondered what symbolically the universe had in mind to limit your use of your hand? Smile Like did you say you could accomplish something with your hand tied behind your back Wink Very Happy

By the way, I've been searching through my literature on this loop and Cummins & Midlo leave the possibility out of their description of hypothenar patterns, describing only the proximal, ulnar and radial margin loops - not distal. I have found a similar example in literature from 1918 that was described as "peculiar" Smile I think I am the first to point out that this loop is formed differently than the radial memory loop and is also different from the raja loop in that the pattern is on the hypothenar and out of the interdigital zones.

(Coincidentally, I have my ipod playing music randomly and so synchronistically when I typed the word "peculiar" 4 Non Blondes were singing "What's Up" and the word came up in the lyrics about 'feeling a little peculiar' exactly at the same time I typed the word. Too funny! I rarely use that word.)
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Re: Loop of memory or not?

Post  Sue Miller on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:30 am

heheheh i've been racking my brain to understand why this and why now, but so far no revelation
sue
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