"MUSIC BEE"

**Upendrasingh Bhadoriya** Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:45 am

Respected All members
I would like share something on palmer ridges particular The “Bee” of music.
I have read from various sources as below about this pattern as below-
Lori Reid –The art of hand reading-
Whorl of Music- A very rare find, the whorl enclosing a patch of horizontal ridges on the Venus mount is called a “Bee” because it resembles in insect. It denotes strong music talent.
Nathaniel Altman- Palmistry (The Universal Guide) The Bee- The bee is found on the people who have a strong love for music made by stringed instruments such a guitar, cello or violin. Located near the center of Venus mount, It is sometimes found on the professional musicians.
Beverly Jaegers Beyond Palmistry-The art and science of modern hand analysis
The Musical “BEE”- Looking closely at the skin…at right angles to those normal lines. When this is seen, it indicate an individual who has a genius for music and harmony it is with an oval line completely enclosing it, but may be found just as if floating on the curving lines, but completely different in direction. The reason we call it the bee is that it looks like the back end of a honey bee.
Beryl Hutchinson- Your life in your hands
‘Bee’ string- Should there (Venus Mount) be cross patterning rather like an insect bee, the response may well be felt most strongly to stringed instruments.

But it is very clear, I have seen in this formation in many hands and collected photos of a few but I didn’t get any reliable result as mentioned above. None of them is a musician or playing any stringed or other musical instruments. They are not singer or stage artist. Only one of them like to listen music so what is signification of this. On the contrary I have gone though palms of instrument players and musicians but I did not find music bee on their palms. If you have any other idea you are requested to share with us.

"MUSIC BEE" Dsc01510

**Kiran.Katawa** Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:14 am

Namaskar Upendrasingh ji.

Have you also looked into the book "The spellbinding Power of Palmistry" by Johnny Fincham?
He describes the Whorl on Venus and loop of rhythm to be 2 separate things.
I don't have diagrams of the same. However, you can see the sample sections( in which these loops are covered) in book.google.com.

According to him: A loop on Venus indicates a need to create a mobile or unconventional household. For ex: Caravans and boat houses, perpetual travellers etc.

Loop of rhythem is a loop which raises from the base of the Venus, goes up and curves down in the middle zone of Venus and returns to base of the Venus( like a loop). And this indicates a sense of ruhytm and love for musical harmony. This doesn't necessarily reflect a musical talent. Its more of physical manner(drummers, dancers etc) than of intellectual attraction

Hope, this was helpful.

Namaskar,
Kiran

**Upendrasingh Bhadoriya** Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:44 am

Kiranji Namste
Thank you for your prompt reply; it is different than Fincham has mentioned his book. He has mentioned whorl you can see it in picture taken from his book.
"MUSIC BEE" Dscn9013

**Lynn** Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:06 pm

But it is very clear, I have seen in this formation in many hands and collected photos of a few but I didn’t get any reliable result as mentioned above. None of them is a musician or playing any stringed or other musical instruments. They are not singer or stage artist. Only one of them like to listen music so what is signification of this. On the contrary I have gone though palms of instrument players and musicians but I did not find music bee on their palms. If you have any other idea you are requested to share with us.

hi Upendrasingh, I have only seen Music Bee about 3 times, but none of them could play an instrument or had any special interst in music. Same with the music loop, I never found any correlation to music or rhythm.
I think only the first photo you shared is a 'music bee', the other two are whorls.

**Ramann** Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:12 pm

Upendra Ji,

Greetings from my side.It is really good to see something from your own and personal collection at this forum Thumbs up!

.A query that I I have is that can you confirm the presence of musical abilities in all the palms posted above?A brief background of their abilities.Is that a confirmatory signal and what are the degrees to judge that particular ability if we want to rank them based on the particular skin ridge pattern?

Would like to hear from you.

Thanks again and my regards

Raman

**anand_palm** Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:54 pm

Hello all

The corresponding palmar pattern have to be attributed to the corresponding mounts. people who are good in singing or music seem to have good ring finger charecterstic with respect to patterns and finger shape. Since the loop in venus mount would take in strong attributes of venus mount or thenar mount is what i would think. what attributes does venus have iam not sure, from whatever i have read venus indicates about sex ect.. and other aspects but after reading other palmistry books mercury finger would indicate that aspect.

Thanks
Anand

Patti Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:23 pm

The pattern that is known as the bee is called a "vestige" in the medical/science dermatoglyphic books. The ridges tend to be enclosed by other ridges and are lined up in a different direction than the surrounding ridges. A whorl is not a vestige.

I see these fairly often, usually in combination with a courage loop at one end and a rhythm loop at the other.

About half of the people will have some special interest in music, singing, dancing or playing an instrument. Some just like music a lot and tend to have a tune in their heads.

I have found the whorl pattern fits with the definition of having an unusual life style and abilities to work with their hands, especially hand crafts. But the vestige does not carry this indication.

**Upendrasingh Bhadoriya** Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:28 pm

Respected Lynn
Namaste.
First two is very clear music bee and last one is also music be according to Beverly Jaegers Beyond Palmistry-II definition of bee.
Ramanji ,
Vidvan bhavh
I checked not only these palms but many more, which are not in my collection. After analysis them I have made statement as above. I have not found any particular characteristic or ability or quality common among them. Hence I did not conclude any thing.
Anandji
pranam,
There are lot of controversy about mounts and their significations so just now it is not proper platform to discuss about mounts and their relationship with respect to loops and whorls.
Respected Pattiji
Namste,
Thanks for good information given by you that bee is vestige and whorl is part of our skin.
We have to remember a very useful statement given by Arnold Holtzman “Everything modifies everything else. Everything has an influence on everything else and everything is influenced by everything else”

Patti Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:43 pm

Upendrasingh Bhadoriya wrote:Respected Pattiji
Namste,
Thanks for good information given by you that bee is vestige and whorl is part of our skin.
We have to remember a very useful statement given by Arnold Holtzman “Everything modifies everything else. Everything has an influence on everything else and everything is influenced by everything else”

Hi Upendrasingh!
Namaste sunny

You're welcome. Both the whorl and the vestige are skin ridge patterns.

I smiled at your quote from Holtzman, I said nearly the same words to someone in a PM response a few minutes ago!

**Upendrasingh Bhadoriya** Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:04 am

Respected Pattiji
Pranam,
Dictionary meaning of 'Vestige- a still existing small part or amount of something larger, stronger or more important that existed in the past but does not exist now'. Hence “BEE” could be considered as vestige skin ridge patterns.
Thanks!

**zaobhand** Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:40 am

Namaste Upendrasingh,

Nice photos. Do the people associated with figures 2 &3 have an unusual life style? perhaps good skills with their hands? Thanks

**Upendrasingh Bhadoriya** Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:55 am

Zaob
Thanks
To be frank with all of you, all living normal life they have nothing special quality or ability to use their hand to do some thing unique.

**anand_palm** Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:52 pm

Hello Patti, Upendra

Sorry upendra ji this might be a question more on the meaning of music bee (i do know you wanted a different discussion) and its interpretation but what confuses me about these loops meaning is partly because of scientific enquries. According to charlotte wolfe the meaning of zones have been divided as ulnar, radial, median and since thenar falls into median nerve zone and functionallity would be following into conscious zone how would you decipher the meaning of thenar zone. like for example hypothenar is linked to subconcious zone and similalrly the correspinding mercury finger which is also part of the zone is also related to subconcious. how would you relate the thenar be related to the conscious zone, i think this should provide the answer to the question and what really is the meaning of music loop ect..

charlotte wolfe mentions about different function of this nerve. Also what she mentions is that thenar dominance with strong line line would indicate more energitic person with physical activiites. probably the loops or whorls would make it more energitc (learnt from patti response on the forum which i had aksed her a question).

Thanks
Anand

**Lynn** Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:40 am

Upendrasingh Bhadoriya wrote:Respected Lynn
Namaste.
First two is very clear music bee and last one is also music be according to Beverly Jaegers Beyond Palmistry-II definition of bee.

Hello Upendrasingh, I only see the first one as a true 'music bee' the other two have clear whorls. I would appreciate input from others about this. Although, I still have no real idea how to interpret any of these patterns, as I did not get much positive feedback from the book interpretations! I have seen whorls on Venus mount in people who lived in unusual homes/circumstances as Johnny Fincham said, especially on people who had mental illness or mental handicap and lived in residential care homes.

**zaobhand** Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:49 am

Hi Lynn,

The b&w photo seems to clearly show a whorl, with a triradius signature, however the color photos seem like whorls with an opening toward the wrist/thumb. Any whorl should indicate an isolation, here I guess with respect to some physical attributes such as unique life style / home etc.

**Lynn** Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:01 am

Thanks for confirmation Boaz, yes I see the B&W pic and the 2nd and 3rd colour photos as whorls, but the first colour one seems to be a true 'music bee' as in the books (I see no whorl there).

**zaobhand** Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:05 am

Hi Lynn, Yes, I meant the 2nd and 3rd color photos. They seem somewhat like peacocks not full whorls.

Patti Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:44 am

Lynn wrote:
Upendrasingh Bhadoriya wrote:Respected Lynn
Namaste.
First two is very clear music bee and last one is also music be according to Beverly Jaegers Beyond Palmistry-II definition of bee.

Hello Upendrasingh, I only see the first one as a true 'music bee' the other two have clear whorls. I would appreciate input from others about this. Although, I still have no real idea how to interpret any of these patterns, as I did not get much positive feedback from the book interpretations! I have seen whorls on Venus mount in people who lived in unusual homes/circumstances as Johnny Fincham said, especially on people who had mental illness or mental handicap and lived in residential care homes.

In Finger Prints Palms and Soles pages 104 and 105 there is a description of the vestige in the thenar/1st Interdigital area.

I have found the whorls to be on capable normal people who are not in institutions.

**Kiran.Katawa** Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:56 am

zaobhand wrote:
Any whorl should indicate an isolation, here I guess with respect to some physical attributes such as unique life style / home etc.

Hi Boaz,
This explanation is very good. Thanks!

**Magda van Dijk-Rijneke** Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:58 pm

Hello all,
In my opinion, the 3rd photo is truly a whorl in the Loop of harmony rising from the thumb base angle but stronger of character, because it also a flame with a whorl, like the whorl of isolation.
It means that these people have a natural feel for music and a great musical ear. They want self-perfection and harmony. Have the intention to help people with their special use intuitive.
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**Kiran.Katawa** Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:48 am

The pictures are removed now.

What would the "whole" signify w.r.t. the sexual aspects of the person?
Considering a well developed mount of Venus, can it be said that: "The person is intense, passionate etc? And on the bad side, it can also add to the stressed sex life? some secret about his sex life"?

**Martijn (admin)** Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:33 am

Lynn wrote:Thanks for confirmation Boaz, yes I see the B&W pic and the 2nd and 3rd colour photos as whorls, but the first colour one seems to be a true 'music bee' as in the books (I see no whorl there).

Yes Lynn, I think you're absolutely right:

A true 'music bee' should not be featured with a large loop or whorl (though I should add that usuallly a 'music bee' will be featured with some kind of an isolated vestige shape - without the presence of any complete loop or whorl).

But I think these details have never been described by detail in the palmistry literature... so I also think that at the end there is plenty of room for others to disagree, especially since the validity of the name 'music bee' has never been established/researched well (according my own standards).

**Martijn (admin)** Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:45 am

Patti wrote:

In Finger Prints Palms and Soles pages 104 and 105 there is a description of the vestige in the thenar/1st Interdigital area.

I have found the whorls to be on capable normal people who are not in institutions.

Thanks Patti for mentioning Cummins & Midlo's observations.

The text describes that the thenar/first interdigital 'vestige' can sometimes be observed as an isolated configuration. From my point of view the isolated configuration is the only variant that should be recognized as a true 'music bee'... though, I would prefer not to describe picture 78 nor 77(a+ b) as a true 'music bee' - because there is a clearly distinguishable loop seen at the top.

Patti Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:30 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:

In Finger Prints Palms and Soles pages 104 and 105 there is a description of the vestige in the thenar/1st Interdigital area.

I have found the whorls to be on capable normal people who are not in institutions.

Thanks Patti for mentioning Cummins & Midlo's observations.

The text describes that the thenar/first interdigital 'vestige' can sometimes be observed as an isolated configuration. From my point of view the isolated configuration is the only variant that should be recognized as a true 'music bee'... though, I would prefer not to describe picture 78 nor 77(a+ b) as a true 'music bee' - because there is a clearly distinguishable loop seen at the top.

If you study how they coded the pattern you will see they include the zigzag ridges as a vestige with the loops and with the whorl. I have seen stand alone vestiges in this area, though rarely. More often than not they have a loop at both ends.

I agree, it is only the vestige that is the bee. But that bee is not any less bee-ish because of the whorl or the loops.

**zaobhand** Thu Mar 15, 2012 4:27 am

Found this comment in Fincham's book:

"If there are more than three whorls on the fingers or one whorl pattern on the palm - there's distinct oddness, alienation, individualism, energetic, talented, original .... etc. "

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