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chirognomy

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chirognomy

Post  yogiman on Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:07 pm

Hi everyone, I am new here. A girlfriend of mine inspired me recently into palmistry. First of all I have done some research into which book would be the best introduction, and my choice fell upon "the language of the hand" by Cheiro. It seems to me that of the western palmists he is the most faithful to the ancient indian art of palmistry. I am especially interested in the psychology, so I have studied the first chapters, that deal with chirognomy, thoroughly.
Now, there is rather scarce material on the internet about this topic, so I have been observing some hands around me and on the internet, but in most cases I have difficulty to determine the type of hand. I like to pose the following remarks:

  • Is hand shape as reliable as hand lines?
  • The meanings of the mounts in Cheiro's "Language of the hand" are different in "Palmistry for all". Is he going to far in the latter?
  • In the vast majority of the cases, I see round fingertips. Is round the same as conic?
  • Is the hand of Einstein artistic?Is the hand of Obama philosophic?
  • Isn't it effeminate for a male to have a psychic hand?
  • An inside tending thumb points to a dependant nature, in contrast to an outside tending thumb. Can you measure this by pressing the thumb subtly down?
  • In what sense can you  measure intelligence by means of the second phalange of the thumb. In my mother's case it is about the same as mine, but, though she can be sly,  unlike me she's got a low intelligence.
  • Most people have smooth joints, but most people are not impulsive.
  • According to my girlfriend the apollo finger refers to art and science. Cheiro's definition of the apollo finger is the ambition for wealth and fame by artistic means.
  • The significance of the mounts at the fingers is not very different from the significance of the fingers themselves.
  • Putin, Obama, the present and past leaders of my own country (Netherlands) have a straight little finger, whereas mine is a little bit bent. But I am pretty straightforward.

I don't expect an answer to every question, but I am grateful if you can elucidate some important ones.

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Re: chirognomy

Post  pravin kumar on Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:36 pm

It will be better if you Learn Palmistry from some Expert.

P.K.

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Re: chirognomy

Post  Lynn on Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:37 pm

hello yogiman

D'Arpentigny's system of hand classification, as used by Cheiro, isn't easy to follow. In any case, it was only designed for the hands of men. Many palmists these days are using the earth-water-fire-air handshape system. I find the element system more reliable.

In "Palmistry for all" Cheiro is combining mounts with astrology, zodiac types.

Conic is slightly more tapered than rounded fingers, but not as tapered as pointed fingers.

re : "Isn't it effeminate for a male to have a psychic hand?" I'm not sure what you are asking. Do you consider art, poetry, music, spirituality, intuition, sensitivity etc to be effeminate interests / traits?

re "Most people have smooth joints, but most people are not impulsive." I think you made 2 generalisations there  Laughing Also look at the length of the fingers, size of hand, and other hand factors to see how much they act without thinking. You always need to look at each feature in conjunction with every other hand feature.

re "Cheiro's definition of the apollo finger is the ambition for wealth and fame by artistic means." He also talks about apollo finger with regard to risk taking & gambling. I associate Mercury finger more with science & Apollo more with the arts.

re "The significance of the mounts at the fingers is not very different from the significance of the fingers themselves." I agree.

Hope my replies make sense to you?

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Re: chirognomy

Post  yogiman on Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:54 pm

Lynn wrote:
re : "Isn't it effeminate for a male to have a psychic hand?" I'm not sure what you are asking. Do you consider art, poetry, music, spirituality, intuition, sensitivity etc to be effeminate interests / traits?


Hope my replies make sense to you?

Thank you very much for your reply.

What I mean is that to me the psychic hand shape doesn't seem to be handsome to a man.

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Re: chirognomy

Post  yogiman on Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:58 pm

pravin kumar wrote:It will be better if you Learn Palmistry from some Expert.

P.K.

My girlfriend is quite advanced, but she doesn't pay much attention to hand and fingershape.

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Re: chirognomy

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:33 pm

yogiman wrote:
pravin kumar wrote:It will be better if you Learn Palmistry from some Expert.

P.K.

My girlfriend is quite advanced, but she doesn't pay much attention to hand and fingershape.

Hello Yogiman,

The more you read, the more you will discover that in the fields of hand reading there is very little consensus about any aspect of the hands.

However,I think the hand shape is the first aspect to consider in a general hand reading assessment - especially when your interest is focussed on the personality/psychology of a person, as hand shape represents the 'core' aspect of a person. This also explains why hand shape has been linked with one of the most important dimensions of the human personality - referring to the Big Five dimension 'Extraversion', see:
http://www.handresearch.com/diagnostics/extraversion-hand-chart-extraverts-ambiverts-introverts.htm

Secondly, one can use the principle that hand aspects become less important when they relate to a smaller part of the hand. But always try to be aware of the full spectrum, for example: an individual fingerprint should never be considered in isolation as it actually represents an aspect of the dermatoglyphic scope in the full hand.

Finally, never put too much value on theories about (small) individual hand features as these are by principle never reliable... because such features can by principle always get neutralized or compensated by other features of the hand.

I hope this is helpful?

 wave 

PS. Though some hand readers today 'like' Cheiro's theories, other have become aware that Cheiro's theories may appear 'appealing' at first sight... but it actually represents the outdated 'superstitious' approach where far too much value is putten on individual tiny little details of the hand. For example: his theory regarding the length of the life line and longevity concerns a typical example that has been debunked by scientific research... and as a matter of fact, Cheiro outlived the length of this own life lines with many years:
http://www.handresearch.com/news/cheiro-line-of-life-longevity-research-life-line-lifeline.htm#cheiro-handprint


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:47 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: chirognomy

Post  yogiman on Wed Jun 18, 2014 1:47 pm

It is what I expected. Palmistry is no exact science. 

PS. Though some hand readers today 'like' Cheiro's theories, other have become aware that Cheiro's theories may appear 'appealing' at first sight... but it actually represents the outdated 'superstitious' approach where far too much value is putten on tiny little details of the hand. For example: his theory regarding the length of the life and longevity concerns a typical example that has been debunked by scientific research... and as a matter of fact, Cheiro outlived the length of this own life lines with many years:
http://www.handresearch.com/news/cheiro-line-of-life-longevity-research-life-line-lifeline.htm#cheiro-handprint[/color]

I hope Cheiro at least hinted in the right direction.  His way of reading was very intuitive. From some of his personal notes I get the impression that he was not corrupt.

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Re: chirognomy

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:57 pm

yogiman wrote:It is what I expected. Palmistry is no exact science. 

PS. Though some hand readers today 'like' Cheiro's theories, other have become aware that Cheiro's theories may appear 'appealing' at first sight... but it actually represents the outdated 'superstitious' approach where far too much value is putten on tiny little details of the hand. For example: his theory regarding the length of the life and longevity concerns a typical example that has been debunked by scientific research... and as a matter of fact, Cheiro outlived the length of this own life lines with many years:
http://www.handresearch.com/news/cheiro-line-of-life-longevity-research-life-line-lifeline.htm#cheiro-handprint[/color]

I hope Cheiro at least hinted in the right direction.  His way of reading was very intuitive. From some of his personal notes I get the impression that he was not corrupt.

Few people are aware that Cheiro was convicted as a fraud, so there can be no doubt that he was sensitive for being corrupt; e.g. he got 'busted' for deceiving rich old ladies - he got convicted in 1909 (+ there were also more charges), the details are inside this 1909 document:
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/28870892/

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Re: chirognomy

Post  Lynn on Wed Jun 18, 2014 11:10 pm

I can't get that link to work without a subscription Martijn. But I was aware of Cheiro being convicted for fraud. Here's a link when warrants were out for his arrest. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19090108&id=PPsgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dnUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4029,664950

He does make some other dubious claims (eg he adopted the title "Count" Louis Hamon).
Of course this is not relevant to his skills as a hand reader. Smile

anyway yogiman, as you are interested in psychology, perhaps some of the more modern authors would suit your interest? I think palmistry literature has become more inclined towards psychology than prediction over the last century.  wave 

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Re: chirognomy

Post  yogiman on Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:22 pm

dear Lynn,

I am not sure about his indian adventure either, but he does show reverence for the indian culture in a time that India was still under english rule. The fact that he was from low irish descent might be another reason for which he might have been scapegoated. In my imagination I see his mother tell him about those creepy english, who starved the irish and rampaged the american indians. As a way of compensating he might have adopted the title "count", which was  fashionable in those days, as Aleister Crowley did the same thing. So he could have perpetrated something, but that  was likely blown up by a corrupt elite.

Yes, I am interested in psychology, but also in the "superstitious" part of palmistry. Maybe you could advice me some good book. My girlfriend borrowed me the book of M. Bashir.

By the way, here is the "broken" OCR text of the newspaper article:

soon became known as the palmist to New York society He was consulted by hundreds of women and the rich and fashionable bad him at their homes for private readings and made him It was not long before Cheiro had learned from the women who consulted him secrets which he is - said to have turned to account by demanding pay for silence and about six years ago he returned to London richer It is said by 1200000 4 Countess Festetics in New York While in this country Chelro folio wed society to Newport and Florida during tne seasons at these points ana was never without clients who paid well for the palm readings and consultations For a time Chelro seems to have been In eclipse and then he blossomed out tc Paris as Count Hamon Count Featettcs who was mulcted to the tune of 1000000 francs by Chelro Is a very wealthy Hungarian nobleman and undoubtedly a member of the family of Count Rudolphe Festetics who married the daughter of Louis T Haggln and granddaughter of James B Haggln the multimillionaire Count Rudolphe came from Hungary and the family is one of the strongest and wealthiest of that country The marriage of Count Rudolphe and Miss Haggln did not turn out to be a happy one and they were divorced some years later The Countess Festetics now lives In New York CELL AWAITS CHEIRO Palmist Once Society Pet Convicted in Paris Court SWINDLED COUNT FESTETICS Adventurer Who Used Secrets of Prominent New York Women to Extort Money a Fugitive With Sentence of 13 Months in Prison Hanging Over Him Three Cities His Field New York May 7 Vance Thompson sends the following dispatch from Paris to the New Tork American Count Louis Hamon better known to New York as XThelro the Palmist has been sentenced to hirteen months imprisonment and ordered to pay a fine of 500 francs In restitution to Count Festetics of sums of which he had swindled that Hungarian nobleman amounting to nearly 1000000 francs Chelro who was originally a servant in a Belfast hotel and whose real name is Warner was sentenced by1 default He left Paris for London abruptly on Christ mas eve when he leaxird that a war rant for his arrest was about to be issued at the instance of two American women MNs Pomerov and her sister from whom he had obtained bonds and stocks valued at nearlj J90COO Chelro and his associates succeeded In settling this case but Count Festetics in sisted upon prosecuting Other complaints against Cheiro are still to be heard and the police hop to secure his extradition Chelro some years ago had a tremendous vogve In New York as a palmist He published liooko on the subject which in creased Ms reputation Tried to Collect Blackmail Ambng his visitors were some of the net - jcnown society people Some of the information he extracted from woman clients seemed so valuable to him that he attempted to force their husbands to - pay money Complaints were made to the police and though Chelro was not arrested he was driven out of town Similar experiences had nut an tena to tils career as a palmist in Lon don His career as a banker in Paris had been equally inglorious Chelro was lat heard from in London where he was found on January 7 last one day after he had been missed from Paris The authorities did not know that he had fled until they tried to serve papers in the complaint of Mr George Baldwin Newell widow of a New York lawjer and her sister Aliss Josephine Pomery At the time Count Hamon as he styled himself said he was In London simply on business He insisted that the complaint of the wealthy American women was all a mistake and could be explained He said that the transaction was a legitimate one and would have been settled In London or New York without trouble He pretended that he was not In the least frightened and would return here without delay

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Re: chirognomy

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:30 pm

Lynn wrote:I can't get that link to work without a subscription Martijn. But I was aware of Cheiro being convicted for fraud. Here's a link when warrants were out for his arrest. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19090108&id=PPsgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dnUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4029,664950

He does make some other dubious claims (eg he adopted the title "Count" Louis Hamon).
Of course this is not relevant to his skills as a hand reader. Smile

anyway yogiman, as you are interested in psychology, perhaps some of the more modern authors would suit your interest? I think palmistry literature has become more inclined towards psychology than prediction over the last century.  wave 

Hi Lynn,

The text is available for anyone at the bottom of that page (no need to subscribe at all).
Anyway, thanks for adding the other link.


 Thanks! 

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Re: chirognomy

Post  Lynn on Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:48 pm

thanks yogiman & Martijn, I hadn't scrolled through that OCR script.

(and sorry yogiman, you obviously saw my post before I edited it. When I re-read it, I thought my comment about Cheiro being more like the European palmists of the time rather than Vedic palmistry, and my questions about his Indian adventure, sounded unintentionally rather brusque, so I deleted it  Laughing )

Cheiro adopted the title "Count" because he said his ancestry went back to nobility of Normandy. He changed his name to Hamon by deed poll. Yes it was fashionable at the time - Compte de St Germain who wrote 'Practice of Palmistry..." and set up U.S. Chirological Society wasn't a count either.  Smile 
I wish I could find previous discussion we had about Cheiro, I find him fascinating!

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Re: chirognomy

Post  yogiman on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:34 pm

Thank you both for your replies. I find it a pity that I didn't recognize the value of this marvellous discipline much earlier. You will hear from me again, when I have equipped myself.

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