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Hands: is this guru real?

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Hands: is this guru real?

Post  yogiman on Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:02 pm

Most people who do yoga will recognize  this guru. When I would rely on outer appearance and behaviour, and I had to choose, he would be my guru. However, his life line seems to end prematurely, and for an "embodiment of love" I would have expected his heart line to cross his entire palm. Is he real?


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Title modification)

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Lynn on Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:24 pm

who? is there a link / photo ?

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:07 pm

yogiman wrote:Most people who do yoga will recognize  this guru. When I would rely on outer appearance and behaviour, and I had to choose, he would be my guru. However, his life line seems to end prematurely, and for an "embodiment of love" I would have expected his heart line to cross his entire palm. Is he real?


Hello yogiman,

I don't want to speculate about whether Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is a fraud, but there are sources which claim that he does use certain tricks, see:
http://nirmukta.com/2012/08/06/pseudoscience-unchallenged-at-iit-kanpur/

Here's Nita's answer to your question:
http://palmistryforyou.com/2010/01/hand-reading-of-sri-sri-ravi-shankar.html


 wave


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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  yogiman on Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:40 pm

Lynn wrote:who? is there a link / photo ?

image hosting

I read you have your own service here? I am going to find out.

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Lynn on Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:55 pm

sorry yogiman I didn't see any change in font colour on "this guru" so missed your original link.  Thanks! 

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Lynn on Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:09 pm

Martijn, regarding
I don't want to speculate about whether Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is a fraud, but there are sources which claim that he does use certain tricks, see:
http://nirmukta.com/2012/08/06/pseudoscience-unchallenged-at-iit-kanpur/

It's not even a trick, just a version of the classic "unbendable arm", which anyone can easily learn. My friend who did ki-aikido taught me how to do this years ago. It's just about relaxing the muscles. You don't need to use any oil. (PS although I think the sceptic doesn't exactly understand this simple technique?).

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  pravin kumar on Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:40 am

I have a hardened glass piece which do many wonders as compared to what Sree Ravi Shankerji has done. We sell this product and this product also energises an old person making him young instantly within a matter of a couple of minutes. There are many other advantages of this and mostly it is to cure you of many diseases and it is scientific. I do not claim myself to be any Guru. Those who are gullible will fall for it. We always explain the technique to our clients how this works.

I have my Guru and Sadguru but they do not claim any Great Powers. When you sit with them you will start seeing miracles which you cannot explain but as you get to know them you will realise how it is done. This is a very long matter so I will end it here. The best part of this Guru is his breathing techniques which brings you relief and gives you tremendous energy. Even Pranayam gives you tremendous life enhancing energies.

P.K.

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  yogiman on Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:41 am

Judging your commentary and seeing Martijn's picture, there is reason for suspicion. Furthermore, Nita's answer seems unreliable. Only two things in the article do make sense to me, namely about his good middle finger and thick strong thumb. His middle finger and thumb might be responsible for his ability to establish a spriritual movement. However, his fate line is forked, and his lifeline is broken, which is strange. Has he got a double life line?

img host

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Lynn on Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:11 am

I have never heard of this guru before. I've been reading about him and it seems he does a lot of good work and positivity in the world.
yogiman I am not sure why you would doubt him because of the length of his lifeline? (tho I see his lifeline breaks and re-starts with an overlap, so it does not look like a short lifeline to me). I'm not sure why it concerns you with regard to his credibility?
1)re double lifeline (or as I see it overlapping lifelines) - apparently he does a lot of travelling, so he probably has 2 bases to his life
2) why do you think  forked fateline is a problem? Main fate line is long and strong, very good. At top one fork goes to index finger which is an ambitious fate line.

Does he have "mallet finger" (sorry I forgot the word, it's not clinodactyly, but something like it) of index finger, it always appears to be bent forward? (*edit - I think the word I was looking for is "Camptodactyly" )  It also appears short which does not show natural leadership ability. was he bullied in youth?
His little finger (mercury) appears straight and honest looking.
Anyway it seems he is promoting a stress-free mind and a violence-free society, he started the Art of Living Foundation. It all sounds good to me Smile


Last edited by Lynn on Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:04 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:48 pm


Let's not overvalue the meaning of the word 'Guru', it's basically a culture related phenomenon:

"In the West some derogatory interpretations of the word have been noted, reflecting certain gurus who have allegedly exploited their followers' naiveté, due to the use of the term in certain new religious movements."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru


And let's also be aware of the psychological mechanism that is ALWAYS involved in a techer-disciple relationship:

"Psychological aspects

Rob Preece, in The Wisdom of Imperfection, writes that while the teacher/disciple relationship can be an invaluable and fruitful experience, the process of relating to spiritual teachers also has its hazards.

As other authors had done before him, Preece mentions the notion of transference to explain the manner in which the guru/disciple relationship develops from a more Western psychological perspective. He writes:

In its simplest sense transference occurs when unconsciously a person endows another with an attribute that actually is projected from within themselves.

Preece writes that when we transfer an inner quality onto another person we may be giving that person a power over us as a consequence of the projection, carrying the potential for great insight and inspiration, but also the potential for great danger.

In giving this power over to someone else they have a certain hold and influence over us it is hard to resist, while we become enthralled or spellbound by the power of the archetype."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru-shishya_tradition#Psychological_aspects

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  yogiman on Sun Jul 27, 2014 12:54 pm

It can be no coincidence that Martijn is posting his message while at the same time I wanted to post mine:
From a guru (sanskit gu=darkness, ru=dispeller) I would expect a hand that in one way or the other is very different from other human beings, and this is not the case. I've spent many years on researching hinduism, and I've never seen a guru who was a real yogi instead of a bhogi. Nevertheless, outside the guru bogus I hold the traditional yoga teachings and sanskrit language in very high regard.

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Lynn on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:11 pm

Teachers are still human  Wink 
What would class as 'a real yogi' ?

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:05 pm

Lynn wrote:Teachers are still human  Wink 
What would class as 'a real yogi' ?

Uhmmm...a 'real yogi' probably qualifies for being smart (next to being an excellent 'spiritual' performer, of course); Yogi Bear would qualify, as his favorite self-promotion is:

"I'm smarter than the av-er-age bear!"

(And his spiritual life advice is: "Life is a Pic-a-Nic")

 geek






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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:42 pm



Uh-oh... guess what?

Yogi Bear just got caught while performing one of his 'tricks'; anyway, his 'disciple' still appears to be backing him... I guess most 'yogis' find themselves multiple times in a likewise situation???

(Osho rejected materialism... but held a Rolls Royce for every day of the year; Sai Baba said he rejected money... but not the money & gold that was found in his residence very soon after his death. In a way, the end of the story is that every yogi might be described to represent just a 'life-artist' who tries to add 'value' to other people's life.)





Osho & his Rolls-Royces:

"Rajneesh was notorious for the many Rolls-Royces bought for his use, eventually totalling 93 vehicles; this made him the largest single owner of Rolls-Royces in the world at that time. His followers planned to expand his collection to 365: a Rolls-Royce for every day of the year."

"Osho was known as the "sex guru" in India and the "Rolls-Royce guru" in the United States."


(More about the hands of Osho available in this topic:
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t1177-osho-into-the-hands-of-bhagwan-shree-rajneesh )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho#U.S._years:_1981.E2.80.931985















The money & gold report after Sai Baba's death:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sathya_Sai_Baba#Opening_of_residence

(More about the hands of Satya Sai Baba available in this topic:
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t762-sri-sathya-sai-baba-1926-2011-hands-of-a-guru )





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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Lynn on Sun Jul 27, 2014 5:53 pm

haha Martijn, yogi bear  lol! 

I think maybe the first part of the webpage answers my question about 'what makes a true yogi'
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/hby/hby11.htm

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:13 pm

Lynn wrote:haha Martijn, yogi bear  lol! 

I think maybe the first part of the webpage answers my question about 'what makes a true yogi'
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/hby/hby11.htm

Well Lynn, yes... looks like Christ did meet most of the criteria listed there; though the Bible does report some moments of anger while being surrounded by his disciples, etc.

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  yogiman on Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:28 pm

At least Sai Baba had a normal hand Gna...gna 

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  pravin kumar on Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:26 am

Yogiman,

My Guru has a Heart Line starting from left and ending at the other end. But my Sadguru (they are on a very high stage of spiritual attainment than Guru) had a Fate Line going from the base of the wrist from the rascatte right upto the Saturn Finger and the Sun Line starting from middle of the palm (cannot recollect whether it was from below or above the head line or from the head line), head line going across and curving downwords gradually, fingers thick. Osho had thick fingers and quite a few other great Saints had this thick fingers. My Sadguru also had a heart line of common sense starting from between the Jupitor and Saturn Mount and beautifully curving across to the other end below the mercury finger.

yogiman wrote:Most people who do yoga will recognize  this guru. When I would rely on outer appearance and behaviour, and I had to choose, he would be
my guru. However, his life line seems to end prematurely, and for an "embodiment of love" I would have expected his heart line to cross his entire palm. Is he real?

All the lines were equally prominent, clear deep lines. Nobody knew who HE was, from where HE came, who HIS Parents or Brothers/Sisters were. It is said a Sanyasi does not ever reveal HIS past. HE was a Rajyogi who did Penance for hours daily and had a body of steel. When I met HIM I was told HE was 287 years old. Someone said HE is 400 years old. I am telling you all this because the palm of a Sanyasi can never be read.

P.K.

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  yogiman on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:27 am

pravin kumar wrote: I am telling you all this because the palm of a Sanyasi can never be read.

Sorry to say so, but this is part of the recipe of wasting a whole life under the dictatorship of the ideology of a stray light.

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:04 am

pravin kumar wrote:Yogiman,

My Guru has a Heart Line starting from left and ending at the other end. But my Sadguru (they are on a  very high stage of spiritual attainment than Guru) had a Fate Line going from the base of the wrist from the rascatte right upto the Saturn Finger and the Sun Line starting from middle of the palm (cannot recollect whether it was from below or above the head line or from the head line), head line going across and curving downwords gradually, fingers thick. Osho had thick fingers and quite a few other great Saints had this thick fingers. My Sadguru also had a heart line of common sense starting from between the Jupitor and Saturn Mount and beautifully curving across to the other end below the mercury finger.

yogiman wrote:Most people who do yoga will recognize  this guru. When I would rely on outer appearance and behaviour, and I had to choose, he would be
my guru. However, his life line seems to end prematurely, and for an "embodiment of love" I would have expected his heart line to cross his entire palm. Is he real?

All the lines were equally prominent, clear deep lines. Nobody knew who HE was, from where HE came, who HIS Parents or Brothers/Sisters were. It is said a Sanyasi does not ever reveal HIS past. HE was a Rajyogi who did Penance for hours daily and had a body of steel. When I met HIM I was told HE was 287 years old. Someone said HE is 400 years old. I am telling you all this because the palm of a Sanyasi can never be read.

P.K.

Well Pravin Kumar... I am not sure what you are trying to tell use, because Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's parents & birthplace are known:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravi_Shankar_(spiritual_leader)#Life

By the way, I have the impression that you have been told 'fairy tales' about the hands of a Sannyasin ... likely told by people who tried to protect their Sannyasin against the (hidden) truth.

This type of 'mystery' can easily get used to mislead or scam other people!


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Correction: 'tales' (instead of 'tailes'))

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  pravin kumar on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:53 am

Martijn,

I am speaking about a Great Sanyasi whose Palm I had seen. A Sanyasi is one who never marries and I happen to see HIS palm sitting next to HIM. HE is no more and I am HIS faithful follower. I am also speaking of OSHO whose palm I have seen on T.V. when he was giving discourses as also quite a few others whose palm. I am not saying anything that is Fairy Tale. What ever gave you that impression I do not know.

My Guru is still there in body and I have seen his palm, read it and in fact someone told him when he was only 16 or 17 years old by looking at his palm that he will turn out to be a spiritual person with good following. This is personally verified.

When I say of other spiritual Guru's I see them on Religious Discourses on T.V. and  have found most of them have thick fingers and long ones. You can check that out on T.V.

P.K.

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Jul 28, 2014 12:50 pm


Pravin,

Let me explain explicite why I used the word 'fairy tales':

Inside your previous message you had informed us that your 'great sanyasi' was said to be 287 years old... and you also informed us that others claimed he was 400 years old.

Now, both claims are very likely 'fairy tales', but for sure...according simple logics at least one of those claims has to be a fairy tale!

But maybe have I misunderstood your words?
Or are you now going to claim also that both numbers are actually correct...???


 scratch

PS. Also,.. the pictures below clearly shows that Osho didn't have 'thick fingers' at any age, his fingers were actually a bit slender - though I would prefer to described the width of his fingers to be ordinary. So, your impression from TV is very likely incorrect... and thus telling people that Osho had 'thick fingers' is in my perception also a fairy tale






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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  pravin kumar on Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:41 pm

Martijn,

If you are going to use logic when you speak about Great Saints then you will most of the time go wrong. Why and how they are able to certain things nobody can explain. There are so many diseases in the body which no science has been able to explain. These Saints know what affects you as they can scan through through Inner Power and rectify the problem.  Where Science ends these Saints work beyond that. If you look at the snap of this Saint I bet anybody to predict what age HE was then as HE had a body that defied all age. There are many stories about HIM maybe true maybe make believe but nobody can deny HIS powers. Christ was nailed. How did he bear the Pain. He had no pain absolutely. Why? What is the logic? You know there was case where the waters parted to make way for His followers. Where is the logic? I will never say that it is Fairy Tale .

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Pravin,

Let me explain explicite why I used the word 'fairy tales':

Inside your previous message you had informed us that your 'great sanyasi' was said to be 287 years old... and you also informed us that others claimed he was 400 years old.

Now, both claims are very likely 'fairy tales', but for sure...according simple logics at least one of those claims has to be a fairy tale!

But maybe have I misunderstood your words?
Or are you now going to claim also that both numbers are actually correct...???


 scratch

PS. Also,.. the pictures below clearly shows that Osho didn't have 'thick fingers' at any age, his fingers were actually a bit slender - though I would prefer to described the width of his fingers to be ordinary. So, your impression from TV is very likely incorrect... and thus telling people that Osho had 'thick fingers' is in my perception also a fairy tale






Now I will tell you things that I have seen with my own eyes, not the ones I have heard. I met HIM for the first time. HE had paralysis in HIS left hand and left leg for 3 weeks. HE claimed to a Doctor follower that HE had just slight problem in his left hand and left leg and will be all right within 3 days. The Doctor did not comment as he knew anything is possible with this Saint. HE (this Saint) asked me to pull his paralysed hand while HE was sitted on top of a cot and I was seated down. Very easy to pull a much older person than me downwards as even Gravity helps me. I could not even move HIS left palm. That is a Siddhi. There are some 8 or 9 Siddhis and one of them is a man who has those Siddhis can make himself so heavy and rock like that nothing can move HIM.

I won't go into details of the discourse HE gave me to change me but yes at the end of our visit to pay our respects to HIM we got up to Leave and were outside the Ashram. HE got up from the Cot for the first time and though paralytic in both left hand and left leg he walked with a walking stick and came at the Door to wave us Good Bye and asked us to come again. How can a person having paralysis get up from the cot and walk? No Logic supports it. HE healed a person whose both kidney failed. I met that person many times and he confirmed. IF HE is present in HIS Ashram HE will be found thousands of miles away elsewhere too. This you know is Astral Travel and HE did it many times. HE made my travel so comfortable in Train that previously (before I met HIM) I would have difficulty in getting bookings in Trains but after meeting HIM I had most of the time Ticket Checkers or persons helping me with a Berth in the Train and that too when there was hardly any space to stand in the bogie but for me there was one Berth which was offered by another person, he himself sleeping with his friend on another Berth.

There are many other incidents which logic will defy and I have seen it with my own eyes.

P.K.


Last edited by pravin kumar on Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:15 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:59 pm


Sorry Pravin, I think you misunderstood why I referred to logics (basically only because two completely different ages were mentioned).

In my perception your report only suggests that you believe the statements made to represent truth - but the verified reports about the oldest people alive ever indicate the the validity of the statements should get questioned... as the longest verified longevity reported ever so far is actually less than only 123 years, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people

The claim regarding HIS age is obviously far, far... far away from what can be described as realistic. He probably is not aware that he lost lost counting, assuming that he did not deliberately try to fool or impress you anyway with his stories & tricks, etc. His use of the word 'paralyzed' appears to have been inappropriate anyway.

I think it's just a story, but a story without any clue that could suggest it to represent a verified claim. Apparently you get impressed by people easily... but I think you underestimate that people often tend to tell others what they want them to believe.

Anyway, thanks for your response.

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Re: Hands: is this guru real?

Post  pravin kumar on Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:09 am

Martijn,

What I saw of Osho on T.V. He had thick fingers. The image you have posted maybe of much earlier years. Quite a few other Saints who I have met personally or seen on T.V. have thick fingers.

As for Age what is recorded is what is known to them. There are so many Saints ( this is what I have heard and there is a way how they do it ) who are even over 500 years. How they do it. Death comes to a person at a time and place which is fixed in your destiny. They come to know where they are going to Die and where they are going to Die and when the time comes they leave their body temporarily half an hour before and come back half an hour after that time in their body. How do they leave the body. When a person dies his soul is separated from his body and then death occurs. When you meditate your soul is far far away from your body.

Do you believe all that is written about Jesus Christ or is that all hearsay? Or whosoever you believe in do you believe they do all that is claimed by people and written in books. It is natural to get carried away by what you see and the rest gets added up but here the discussion was about the thick fingers of the Saints. You have 1,000 members. They spread the word that this forum is so good etc. and then another 10,000 come to know about and they spread their stories adding up something of their own. Does it mean that your website does not exist and is not good. When Saints do things which we do not understand we call it miracles and there are so many instances where they have brought Dead to Life. I have not spoken of that though HE too brought two persons back to life. One person's son told me besides so many others told me but I have not mentioned that. On so many occasions I saw persons being beaten and on simple prayer I saw right in my front those very persons being spared immediately. One child fell down from top in the train and got heart and his forehead started bleeding (I am witness to it). I prayed for his well being. Another person came and did the dressing of this child with antiseptics lotion and cream and the child was calm. All this is not hear say. When such things happen you tend to believe things which may not have happened. Everything in this life is not 2 plus 2. When a boy meets a girl and instantly falls in love is there any logic. Both do not know why it happened but when something pleasant happens nobody looks for logic. So is the case with these Saints. We all know that HE will always do good to others so any thing you get to hear about HIM has to be something really good. HE HAD NEVER CLAIMED ANYTHING THAT I HAVE MENTONED. They are too humble to speak of themselves.

But talking about HIS fingers yes HIS fingers were thick and long, Even Osho's fingers in that image you have given is long but it got thick maybe later on because this is the observation I have made personally and I think if you try to get his DVD of his speeches you will verify it. What is the meaning of Thick Fingers: Intuitive person. What is the meaning of Thin long waisted fingers: Selfish Nature. Correct me if I am wrong.

The part of a family member being admitted to Hospital in a Death like situation and then coming being normal is an instance that happened in my house and these Saints have a way of sending you hints 2/3 months before the incident. When I sat before HIS Samadhi 1 month before the incident HE spoke with me just like any other normal person though HE had left HIS body and HIS samadhi lay there (which means HE had already Died at least 7 years before this happened) . In that HE told certain things and one of them was to remove the Dog we had in our house  before Diwali. I did not do it and 7 days after Diwali this person was serious and was admitted to Hospital , revived within 6 weeks and is back to normalcy. The Doctors, nurses and all those who saw this person were puzzled. My Guru told me that the hair of the dog had entered the food and this got pumped into the brain thus causing the rupture of arteries over there. The Doctors tried to find how did this happen through angiogram but could not find the cause of the damage done initially. Now this is not hearsay.

Even if you come across a person who is good sincere and jolly don't you think when you speak of him to others you change the truth slightly, unknowingly, and pass it on. This is done by almost all human being and that is how the truth gets distorted but here the truth does not turn into something damaging. This happens with all people all over and hence whatever we read about them is fairly tale or whatever you say but it happens. That does not make that person less important.

Do you think whatever information we get on Google is final and complete of all things that have ever happened even in this century. So many things are not even mentioned or reported for eg. crime. All criminals are not caught, many crimes are committed but not even reported and so many others happen which may not get reported but does that mean that such and such thing did not occur?

Ravi Shanker is a Saint but what is his standing. Many people know him and he is famous world over but the Saints I am talking about do not even come on T.V. or are reported in newspaper. They shun publicity. If you go to meet them you may not meet them at all if they do not want to meet you. Only the ones they want to meet can reach them. This too I had first heard but then got it verified and I can give you instances but you want proof which I cannot give you. Any Saint hungering for publicity is not the Saint who has reached the top. They welcome you with open arms if you really desire to follow the path to God. Politicians went to HIM but HE got to know well before and would leave HIS ashram only returning when these people have left. All these things are heard and some of them I have experienced. So we believe what we have not experienced for you know HE is capable of doing anything.

P.K.

pravin kumar

Posts : 3604
Join date : 2010-09-30
Age : 68
Location : Bombay

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