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Fourth phalange on my little finger - Page 2 Empty Four Phalanges-Compendium of Interpretation for everyone's benefit!

Post  astrokid on Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:19 pm

Various Interpretations offered for Four Phalanges on Fingers:

1. Enhanced ability of some kind pertaining to that specific finger and phalange. For example, four phalanges in Mercury (little) finger could mean extra communication skills. But this extra ability might come at the expense of some other aspect since the extra phalange is taking away space from the existing phalange.

2. As per an Astro-Palmist, it could mean extra powers to those planets pertaining to the finger. Verify this by looking at Natal chart and D9 chart.

3. According to an Indian palmist, extra phalange in Saturn finger would mean occult powers. Extra phalange in sun finger would mean lateral thinking capacity.

4. Special Interest in Mathematics and Business.

5. Detail-oriented and list making nature. Tendency to over-explain things.

6. Tendency to identify oneself with 2 distinct cultures with equal ease. But behaving differently with each set of friends from those 2 cultures and the need to spend time with both cultures. Basically a very subdued version of split personality.

7. As per some ancient Indian palmists, extra phalange in Sun finger signifies an extra money line.

8. As per some old Indian palmists, Phalanges signify events in life via counting the number and corresponding to that age in life. Extra phalanges should therefore signify some exceptional event in life (career move, relocation etc) at that age.

9. Indicates dysfunctional family background of some kind (questionable birth, missing one or both parents etc).

10. Physical disorder- i.e. Down’s syndrome.

One could have one or more of the above symptoms due to the presence of extra phalanges.

Best Regards,

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Post  Lynn on Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:29 pm

Hi Astrokid, thanks for sending me these interpretations that you've collected from various sources, and thanks for posting them here. Now I see your username, I remember you from PI forum! Welcome to this forum. Thanks!

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:15 pm


Hello Astrokid,

Nice to see you back!


PS. Regarding the last point in your list, Down syndrome is typically featured with features that can be described as 'compressed' manifestations of underdevelopment (seen in both the palm + the fingers). This explains why sometimes one can see only one 'interphalangeal crease' on the pinky finger (usually combined with a short 2nd phalange).

This also explains an why an EXTRA-phalange is not seen in Down syndrome (because that would indicate 'advanced' development - which is not characteristic for the trisomy 21 disorder).

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri May 20, 2011 2:42 am


... just found another clue which confirms that an 'extra transverse digital crease' (ETDC) often is combined with HYPERMOBILITY, because the following study about Marfan syndrome (which is always featured with hypermobility in the hands) also reports the presence of ETDC's:

Palmar Dermatoglyphics in Marfan's Syndrome


PS. The following article includes some photos of ETDC's in Alagille syndrome:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajmg.10628/pdf

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri May 20, 2011 2:49 am


I have just moved this topic to the Multi-Perspective Palm Reading forum, because the 'extra transverse digital creases' concerns a topic that is very suitable to be combined with hand characteristics in other dimensions in order to find a possible diagnosis:

When related syndromes (such as Larsen syndrome, Alagille syndrome & Marfan syndrome) are excluded, then ETDC's can typically indicate:

hyperflexibility of the finger joints (and possibly other body parts).



PS. Joint hypermobility has also been connected with genetic collagen disorders:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1717821/pdf/v080p00188.pdf


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Fri May 20, 2011 2:14 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post  tap on Fri May 20, 2011 11:30 am

I have found a few references to this 'extra transverse digital crease' on the 5th finger associated with class II 1q21.1 deletions.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7RKV-506RN8S-1&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F31%2F2010&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1758457065&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=5c85a32b09f53e95e8256e2e1df8e5e9&searchtype=a

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri May 20, 2011 2:15 pm


Thanks Tap!
Thumb up

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Post  Patti on Fri May 20, 2011 3:35 pm

tap wrote:I have found a few references to this 'extra transverse digital crease' on the 5th finger associated with class II 1q21.1 deletions.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7RKV-506RN8S-1&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F31%2F2010&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1758457065&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=5c85a32b09f53e95e8256e2e1df8e5e9&searchtype=a

tap

That's interesting Tap!
I found a photo. Thank goodness TAR syndrome is very rare!

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Post  tap on Fri May 20, 2011 5:11 pm

Hi Patti Very Happy

Thank goodness. The 5th finger crease has been found on people with class II 1q21.1 microdeletions/deletion syndrome. Some of the other health issues associated with it are Clavicular pseudoarthrosis (the collarbone doesn't develop normally), and Anomalous origin of the coronary artery. It is rare. Here are a few more links.

http://www.enotes.com/topic/1q21.1_deletion_syndrome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1q21.1_deletion_syndrome


tap


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Post  sv-b on Fri May 20, 2011 5:26 pm

Hello patti and tap, Smile

Just would like to make some statements on such diagnostic grounds. There is no least absolute can be seen from this kind of diagnostic ideas. This diagnostic values are just equal to how the author of novel give name to the characters of his story. The sad part of diagnosis is that it has the majority of exceptionals. ie., all simian crease individuals are not having genetic disorder -down's syndrome.

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri May 20, 2011 5:49 pm

Hello Tap & Patti,

I observe there is some miscommunication here:

Because Patti's TAR syndrome is indeed extremely rare: the incidence is 0.42 per 100,000 live births (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TAR_syndrome ).

However, Tap's report is not about TAR syndrome... it's about the much more common 1q21.1 deletion syndrome: which includes e.g. deletions in various regions of the 1q21.1 region, and one of those regions is the same region that is involved in TAR syndrome.


And Tap's 1q21.1 deletion syndrome is much more common than TAR syndrome, because the Wikepedia page reports:

"Due to this research it became clear that 20 out of 1000 autism patients have 1q21.1 deletion syndrome"

And because autism is also known for a higher occurence of 'hypermobility', there could also be a link between autism & 'extra transverse digital creases'... possibly via fragile-X syndrome.

... scratch


PS. I know nothing about TAR syndrome nor the 1q21.1 syndrome... but I tried to understand what both of you reported, and then I observed that each of you was talking about a different topic... Smile

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Post  tap on Fri May 20, 2011 6:07 pm

Hi Stalin and Martijn

I agree Stalin "There is no least absolute can be seen from this kind of diagnostic ideas."

Martijn, you are right. 2 totalty different topics.

The wikipedia link for 1q21.1 deletion syndrome does state " is a rare aberration of chromosome 1" thinking


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Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri May 20, 2011 6:14 pm

tap wrote:Hi Stalin and Martijn

I agree Stalin "There is no least absolute can be seen from this kind of diagnostic ideas."


... Unless when starts considering the neceassary combinations!

For example: 'Multi-Perspective Palm Reading' describes how to recognize when a simian line is an element in Down's syndrome... but it requires knowledge about the other hand characteristics that are typical for Down syndrome, you can see how it works via: http://www.multiperspectivepalmreading.com/palm-reading-themes.htm


wave


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Fri May 20, 2011 6:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  tap on Fri May 20, 2011 6:19 pm

Very Happy
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Post  tap on Fri May 20, 2011 6:27 pm

study Racking up a few for my heart. Whorls ( ? ) extra crease on 5th finger...
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Post  Patti on Fri May 20, 2011 6:33 pm

stalin.v wrote:Hello patti and tap, Smile

Just would like to make some statements on such diagnostic grounds. There is no least absolute can be seen from this kind of diagnostic ideas. This diagnostic values are just equal to how the author of novel give name to the characters of his story. The sad part of diagnosis is that it has the majority of exceptionals. ie., all simian crease individuals are not having genetic disorder -down's syndrome.

Typically hand deformities relate to some sort of altered development at a particular stage of embryology. Knowing when and how these particular features develop is also helpful.

When the digits form, the distal interphalangeal joint forms before the middle interphalangeal joint forms. For a short time there is a long soft pre-bone tissue or cartilage between the metacarpophalangeal and the distal interphalangeal joint.

In my opinion, these extra creases form during this time when the finger is moving and the joint is not yet there.

I have read that this is the only joint in the body that doesn't form in sequence.
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Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri May 20, 2011 6:39 pm

tap wrote:
Martijn, you are right. 2 totalty different topics.

The wikipedia link for 1q21.1 deletion syndrome does state " is a rare aberration of chromosome 1" thinking

Yes Tap, that is correct: I noticed the word 'rare' at the Wikipedia page as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1q21.1_deletion_syndrome

But that page also reports the 2% in autism... and because autism is seen in about 0.2% of people worldwide... the 1q21.1 deletion syndrome is seen in AT LEAST 4 per 100.000 live births.


PS. But I think the number is actually much higher because not all people with the 1q21.1 deletion syndrome have autism; but if the percentage is higher than 10% than that would indicate that the 1q21.1 deletion syndrome is probably seen in not many more or less than 1 in 10.000 live births... which still can be described as 'rare' ... Very Happy

(If you understand how I used the statistics, this should make sense)

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Post  tap on Fri May 20, 2011 6:53 pm

Hi Patti and Martijn

Patti that is really interesting ! Martijn are you saying it is rare? scratch I need to read both pages again.

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri May 20, 2011 7:18 pm

tap wrote:...

Martijn are you saying it is rare? scratch I need to read both pages again.

tap

Well Tap, both syndromes can be described as 'rare'... but while the TAR syndrome is seen in about 0.42 cases in 100.000 live births, the 1q21.1 deletion syndrome is seen about 20x more often than TAR syndrome with close to 10 cases in 100.000 live births.


Anyway, let's not forget that the extra transverse is much more common... because it is seen in many populations, including e.g.: health indivuals!

Smile ...Makes sense now?


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Post  tap on Fri May 20, 2011 7:33 pm

Thanks Martijn, your explanation makes sense now. Very Happy

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Post  sv-b on Fri May 20, 2011 7:33 pm

Hello tap, patti, martijn, Smile

It has no principle in both palmistry and scientific views, as these are based on probability. you could not even prove atleast 1percentage . Then how it can be applicable universally.

@patti, I can submit good number of cases who has good finger joints with extra Interphalangeal crease. Again that is being unscientific. Every cell of our body, beyond metabalism, originated since we are in the womb. Hence, It is no wonder that extra phalangeal creases were present in some cases since they born or during their intra-uterine life. The thing is that what you can say from this crease from the palmistry view point. Again lot of assumption we made than to make it science. science doesnt take palmar crease for diagnostic purpose. Rather, they have made speculation with rarest and least statistic rank results. Again it is being unscientific. Hence, This studies can waste your time much. but, never can give you solution through out.

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri May 20, 2011 7:51 pm

stalin.v wrote:Hello tap, patti, martijn, Smile

It has no principle in both palmistry and scientific views, as these are based on probability. you could not even prove atleast 1percentage . Then how it can be applicable universally.

Stalin, you talk about 'it'... but how can we understand what are you are trying to tell us here?

Please specify what you exactly have in mind...


(For example: are you talking about the relevance of the simian line in Down's syndrome?)

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Post  Patti on Fri May 20, 2011 9:35 pm

stalin.v wrote:Hello tap, patti, martijn, Smile

It has no principle in both palmistry and scientific views, as these are based on probability. you could not even prove atleast 1percentage . Then how it can be applicable universally.

@patti, I can submit good number of cases who has good finger joints with extra Interphalangeal crease. Again that is being unscientific. Every cell of our body, beyond metabalism, originated since we are in the womb. Hence, It is no wonder that extra phalangeal creases were present in some cases since they born or during their intra-uterine life. The thing is that what you can say from this crease from the palmistry view point. Again lot of assumption we made than to make it science. science doesnt take palmar crease for diagnostic purpose. Rather, they have made speculation with rarest and least statistic rank results. Again it is being unscientific. Hence, This studies can waste your time much. but, never can give you solution through out.

I thought you were a medical student? I guess I thought wrong about that?
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Post  sv-b on Fri May 20, 2011 10:14 pm

Patti wrote:
stalin.v wrote:Hello tap, patti, martijn, Smile

It has no principle in both palmistry and scientific views, as these are based on probability. you could not even prove atleast 1percentage . Then how it can be applicable universally.

@patti, I can submit good number of cases who has good finger joints with extra Interphalangeal crease. Again that is being unscientific. Every cell of our body, beyond metabalism, originated since we are in the womb. Hence, It is no wonder that extra phalangeal creases were present in some cases since they born or during their intra-uterine life. The thing is that what you can say from this crease from the palmistry view point. Again lot of assumption we made than to make it science. science doesnt take palmar crease for diagnostic purpose. Rather, they have made speculation with rarest and least statistic rank results. Again it is being unscientific. Hence, This studies can waste your time much. but, never can give you solution through out.

I thought you were a medical student? I guess I thought wrong about that?

Hello patti, Smile

The term modern palmist is out of existence. still, some claim themselves they are. However, your sarcasm sounds meaningless unless or until you make scientific discussion . However, we have wasted 3 pages of discussion with no use already. Smile

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Post  Patti on Fri May 20, 2011 10:54 pm

stalin.v wrote:
Patti wrote:
stalin.v wrote:Hello tap, patti, martijn, Smile

It has no principle in both palmistry and scientific views, as these are based on probability. you could not even prove atleast 1percentage . Then how it can be applicable universally.

@patti, I can submit good number of cases who has good finger joints with extra Interphalangeal crease. Again that is being unscientific. Every cell of our body, beyond metabalism, originated since we are in the womb. Hence, It is no wonder that extra phalangeal creases were present in some cases since they born or during their intra-uterine life. The thing is that what you can say from this crease from the palmistry view point. Again lot of assumption we made than to make it science. science doesnt take palmar crease for diagnostic purpose. Rather, they have made speculation with rarest and least statistic rank results. Again it is being unscientific. Hence, This studies can waste your time much. but, never can give you solution through out.

I thought you were a medical student? I guess I thought wrong about that?

Hello patti, Smile

The term modern palmist is out of existence. still, some claim themselves they are. However, your sarcasm sounds meaningless unless or until you make scientific discussion . However, we have wasted 3 pages of discussion with no use already. Smile

Yes Stalin you did annoy me with your response. Especially since I did think you said you were a medical student. Which should mean you have access to medical literature and an understanding of human anatomy.

Although the developmental aspects are not important to you, that does not lessen their value to myself or others.

My comment that the distal interphalangeal joint formed before the proximal interphalangeal joint is not in regards to a defect, it is the normal process of limb development.



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