Your opinion & share...
Latest topics
» Palm reading please reply.
Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:47 pm by Keeperlit19

» Seeking Medical Palmistry Author
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:11 pm by jezlucky

» Travel Lines
Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:12 am by kalki

» Simian Line / Single Transverse Palmar Crease
Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:26 pm by Martijn (admin)

» Hasta Samudrika Shastra - the most ancient palmistry system!
Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:13 am by Martijn (admin)

» Hands & the Major Factor of Personality!
Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:41 pm by Martijn (admin)

» best way to learn
Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:00 pm by Martijn (admin)

» THE MOST CHALLENGING HAND: Simian Lines, Murderer’s Thumbs & Radial loops
Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:05 am by lawrencerook

» Palm is blackish
Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:57 am by pravin kumar

» Worries and stress
Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:03 pm by bmcgowra

» is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry
Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:49 pm by nuttyprofessor

» wheel sign on the palm
Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:53 pm by appanna

» White spots on palm
Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:05 am by Lynn

» What Does Broken Life Line Indicate?
Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:50 am by amit_plawat

» Discover Multi-Perspective Palm Reading!
Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:55 pm by Martijn (admin)

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Who is online?
In total there are 39 users online :: 2 Registered, 0 Hidden and 37 Guests

Alex90, wilsonhao

[ View the whole list ]


Most users ever online was 293 on Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:22 am
Moderators & partners

• Discover the Modern Hand Reading Forum partners:

Would you like to see your website listed?

Modern Hand Reading Forum Partners

Pointing finger: check this out!

Statistics
We have 5223 registered users
The newest registered user is Alex90

Our users have posted a total of 43287 messages in 4302 subjects
Top posting users this week
Juno
 
pravin kumar
 
kalki
 

Recommendations

• The FREE hand reading services at the Modern Hand Reading Forum are being continued in 2015 with the assistance of Google adsense!


Pointing finger: check this out!



Google+
MAJOR HAND READING SYNONYMS
Palmistry, Palm Reading, Hand Analysis, Chirology & Chiromancy.

Learn how to read hands according the Modern Hand Reading paradigm & you can use this forum as your palm reading guide!

III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Page 3 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:52 am


Here's another likewise franchise-website trying to make money by making nonsense claims about dermatoglyphics & fingerprints:

genebook.com.my


Quoted from their homepage:

"ABOUT GENEBOOK
No, Our fingerprints are as invariable as they are unique. Between year 1626 and 1690.Spanish Dr.Malphigi pioneered the scientific research on fingerprints. He was also the first professor or anatomy to utilise the microsope to examine fingerprints and record them. In his research , he discoverd the individual fingerprintsare unique."



It's incredible to see how these 'francise guys' even spread incorrect info about the history of fingerprints.

For example, not withstanding the quote above... the truth is that Marcello Malphigi (1628 - 1694) from Italy only studied the skin and it's markings; and he did not discover at all (nor describe) the uniqueness of fingerprints in an individual. Nor did he suggest any applications of the fingerprints.

Regarding the details about Malphigi's work, I can suggest the following credible sources:
http://ridgesandfurrows.homestead.com/early_pioneers.html
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Forensic/fingerprints/History/BriefHistoricOutline.pdf

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5207
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:08 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:

Here's another critical 'Silly Beliefs' review of the dermatoglyphic multiple intelligence test (focussed on the website www.mind-tech.in and this Dec 2008 TheJakartaPost article ):

See the post from october 14, 2010:
http://www.sillybeliefs.com/blog016.html#blog016-7

Quote from the report:

"So in conclusion, DMIT is most likely a scam because:

• There is no scientific evidence that it works (1)
• They tell blatant lies in its promotion (2)
• They make misleading claims (3)
• The provide testimonials, not evidence (4)
• They speak in the language of pseudoscience (5)
• Even the affluent and often gullible West hasn't accepted it (6)"


...

After some time evolved... I have now multiple reasons to share an update about this 'dermatoglyphics - multiple-intelligence' topic:


Basically, not much has changed from my point of view - e.g. I have just found 2 more 'fraud-reports', dating from last summer:
- http://thumbrulefraud.blogspot.com/2011/07/dmit-is-not-scientific-test.html
- http://www.complaintboard.in/complaints-reviews/246602-l145469.html

Additionally to the one that I reported earlier this year: http://www.consumercomplaints.in/complaints/thumbrule-dermatoglyphics-pvt-ltd-surat-gujarat-c559849.html

(Again, the 'silly believes' review mentioned in the quote above is also very helpful in order to understand the doubtful nature of this type of fingerprint application: http://www.sillybeliefs.com/blog016.html#blog016-7 )


I also would like to make people explicitely aware of the following:

Consulting/joining any of these projects ALWAYS requires people to make an investment of a huge amount of money (varying from hundereds of dollars for a personalized report, up to tousands of dollars in order to become a franchisee).

They might explicitely say that you will pay the money for their time & efforts - this argument basically is used just to 'suggest' that you will never acquire any right to get (even a part) of your money back. It's seems always a matter of money...! thinking


And I would like to point out here... that in my earlier posts in this topic I have explained with quite a few details why this is certainly not a 'scientifically validated method' at all - as SUGGESTED by it's developers & the many franchise spin-offs!!!




___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5207
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Patti on Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:15 pm

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating." Very Happy

I have been studying some of the materials involved in marketing this concept and have hesitated to get more involved because there are no results of success. The field is too new.

At the same time, I am watching it with great interest. This system is very similar in a way to Richard Unger's system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglypics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people's self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.

Hopefully, in the coming years as these systems are used by more people, the developers (or competitors) could provide data to support (or discredit) their claims.

This is where my interest lies - results.

Perhaps the cries of fraud and lack of scientific evidence will help to inspire these developers to provide credible evidence to support their claims. So to that end, I would not wish to discourage these systems to be actively used.

avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:32 pm


I have just made another shocking discovery:

Last summer I have informed Ed Campbell about the unscientific nature of these commercial projects. I have e.g. shared with him the review presented at Sillybelieves.com - which points out:

"...So dermatoglyphics is a real scientific study and unusual fingerprint patterns can be an indicator for some genetic disorders, but not for the intelligence and talents of children without genetic disorders, ie your average child. Likewise the Wikipedia entry on 'Fingerprints' also makes no reference to this intelligence test.

Some claims made on websites promoting DMI are completely false:

Dermatoglyphics is commonly used to recognize one's innate capability; this includes the inborn learning style and brain function.
Nearly two centuries ago since year 1823, scientists discovered the relevance of fingerprints and multiple intelligence of human

While these idiots may use dermatoglyphics to try and 'recognize one's innate capability', there is no scientific evidence to suggest it works, nor is there a link between fingerprints and 'multiple intelligence of human'. Certainly some people may say these methods work, but they are no different to astrologers and faith healers, they are pushing a business that is bogus."



And I have even warned Ed that his IBMBS has been used as a 'stage' for promoting a purely commercial product - remember, earlier in this topic I pointed out I have noticed that some francisees of this product even use suggestive 'immoral' statements to young parents that without the D.M.I.T. product their child could potentially become one of the many kids who commit suicide in their teenage years due to expectations of the parrents, etc.

In this perspective... it is quite shocking for me to see that Ed Campbell recently became a francise of the D.M.I.T. product.

Ed's name is now also mentioned at the Thumbrule.in website:
http://www.thumbrule.in/contactus.htm


Very disappointing that Ed - despite his rich experience - did not recognize that this D.M.I.T. method is up to the bone a commercial product - which could best be described as a non-scientific method which tends to suggest that it is just trying to be 'helpfull' (for parents and their young children).

But the marketing technique includes not only immoral claims, it also includes false claims about it's scientific validation: the method is basically nothing more than a theoretical 'construct' using a vocabulary taken from a scientific context that only relates to the history of dermatoglyphics. But there is huge gap between what has been established in the history of scientific field of dermatoglyphics, and the D.M.I.T. claims.

Also, despite that D.M.I.T. claims to be validated product - the truth is probably that there is no (independent) scientific evidence for that at all.

(On the website there is e.g. a reference to a Spanish study and a Chinese study - regarding the Spanish study I can add that the result certainly do not provide any basis for the assumption that dermatoglyphics can be ussed for the assessment of any type of intelligence in individuals. I have not been able to track back the Chinese study - not sure that the details are displayed correctly, but they are copied to quite a few of website in the fancise network anyway.)


... Oh...nooo!

PS. I will inform Ed about this statement, and of course... Ed is very welcome to respond and share his thoughts. I hope he will... but last summer Ed informed me that he somehow kept losing his password, etc.

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5207
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:44 pm

Patti wrote:"The proof of the pudding is in the eating." Very Happy

I have been studying some of the materials involved in marketing this concept and have hesitated to get more involved because there are no results of success. The field is too new.

At the same time, I am watching it with great interest. This system is very similar in a way to Richard Unger's system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglypics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people's self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.

Hopefully, in the coming years as these systems are used by more people, the developers (or competitors) could provide data to support (or discredit) their claims.

This is where my interest lies - results.

Perhaps the cries of fraud and lack of scientific evidence will help to inspire these developers to provide credible evidence to support their claims. So to that end, I would not wish to discourage these systems to be actively used.


Hi Patti,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this topic.

Yes, I understand the things you mention - though you are right about that there is no validation, the developers & francisees certainly do make claims in that direction at their websites.


PS. The quote you mentioned, I have heard Ed using those words as well - but I wonder whether such verbal rethorics are justified. Because when one starts thinking about those words... one could wonder whether accepting the suggestion "eating is the proof of the pudding" might actually have a side-effect: because in any perspective these words can be perceived as a suggestive FIRST STEP in order to get people involved with ANY product/method.

So, even those words could result from a desire to get people involved.
Additionally, independend research requires a proper state of mind - e.g. without being bordered by unwanted financial consequences, etc..

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5207
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Patti on Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:43 pm

Hi Martijn,
Yes, as an afterthought I can see it sounds like the phrase means the proof is in the self reporting rather than statistics which is want I wanted to convey.
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Why I chose Thumbrule program

Post  Handreadered on Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:05 pm

Below is an explanation of my involvement with programs commonly called DMIT programs. I believe they are an the right track, providing information that will grow mor useful to the world as time goes by. They are in embryonic stages in many ways, but they will grow in importance through the years and take on the respect now accorded the DSM, CPI, MMPI and Briggs-Meyers assessments. It depends on whether one believes in the science of biometric correspondences to behavior and character or whether one takes the view like Stewart A Kirk and Herb Kutchins that challenges the DSM rhetoric of the Science in Psychiatry. (The Selling of DSM, The Rhetoric of Science in Psychiatry ©1992). I have come through study and practice over the last thirty years to believe in that biometric and more particularly dermatoglyphic correspondences are to be found to human behavior and character (and health)..

In August of this year I entered a contract with Asian Dermatoglyphics Research Centre Pte. Ltd of Singapore (ADRC) and my company, Amida Biometrics, L.L.C. of Washington State to represent the ThumbRule Dermatoglyphic Multiple Intelligence Testing program (DMIT). The ThumbRule program is found in India, Malaysia, Singapore, and Dubia and I am representing it throughout North America (Canada and the US). It is one of several programs that depend upon fingerprints, palm patters and in one case even foot patterns for behavioral, aptitude and character correspondences that I have examined over the last nine or ten years. They have all been developed in Asia. ThumbRule’s assessment reports are easy for the western mind to grasp, and are available in both Chinese and English. Other competing programs are available in Taiwan, Mainland China and Hong Kong, Thialand, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Africa, the UK, Israel and in a Chinese community in a suburb of Los Angeles. Most of these have grown up in the last four to five years and more intensely in the last two to three years. I have just been consulted by a group from Italy on whether they should represent Thumbrule in Italy. I will cover the subject of Dermatoglyphic Biometric Aptitude Analysis more thoroughly in my upcoming book on Fingerprints and Behavior due for release before the end of the year. One competing program in Malaysia, GeneCode, has grown in this country of around 27 million people since 2006 from nothing to having more than 250 representatives conducting assessments. That country is smaller by almost ten million people than California. The North American market is immense. ADRC now has affiliates in or being developed in India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Singapore, UAR and now in the US and Canada and possibly in Itally.

The program was first designed for child behavior, aptitude and teachable assessments, so that no child would be left behind but each could have the opportunity to realize his or her maximum potentials. Mary Lai, the Taiwanese pioneer working in the field for over a quarter of a century, said she liked to see the children before the age of two. This was because their brains are still so plastic and she could work to avoid many problems she had encountered with autistic, Asperger’s syndrome, and other children with apparent challenged learning or behavioral problems. Theoretically, when the scanning hardware is good enough, we could scan the new born’s hands (and feet) and provide aptitude reports when the mother checks out of the maternity ward. I will be working on this.

These programs have expanded to being useful in the later years of education, in human resource selections and is moving towards use in forensic profiling. In one presentation at her conference in 2010, a pilot trainer with both commercial and military experience in his thirty years in the field, said that her test were the most reliable predictors in his experience of who would succeed in the training and thrive in the field of aviation.

Besides Karan Behl, the driving young man from India who sparks ThumbRule’s sales, others such as Marcus Leng, a young medical tech. from Singapore, Kusum Vig, a seasoned educator in India with a masters in clinical psychology and M.Phil. in Guidance and Counseling, and Sivaraj PPN, with 35 years experience in fingerprints identification science; Ex- Assistant Registrar of Criminal fingerprints for Malaysia and Singapore; member of the Royal Malaysian Police Force, Criminal Investigation Department; and Chief Lecturer in dermatoglyphic sciences, are helping formulate and manage the ThumRule assessment program. For more on ThumbRule and its associates try http://www.thumbrule.in/contactus.htm. Our own newly revised web site should be up soon: www.amidabio.com.

I have not seen the GeneCode (http://www.genecode.com.my/v2/cn/home.aspx) report sample and have not examined the data bases for that program or the other programs. So far they are all closely guarded trade secrets, except for my own which I seek to protect through copyright and patent. I could only begin to give a reasoned evaluation of any of the programs if I could see the data bases, what variations in the fingerprints are used and what and how does each variation relate to assessments in the data base. I believe that Marcus Leng and ADRC give about as much information as is currently available on the web. I have more information on Mary Lai's program because I have several of her books and have spent more time with her and her colleagues and am qualified to use it. Unfortunately, most of her written work is in Chinese. I know that each DMIT relies on counting the ridge lines, and on several variations of the prints. Mine only relies on variations of the prints, but far more variations.

Lysander Poon of GeneCode studied under Mary Lai but he says his program does not strictly follow hers. Neither he nor Thumbrule use the foot prints. Lysander appeared to still be close to Mary when he attended her 2010 conference in Taipei and my class after the conference. Mary considers the foot prints important and I would like to add them in the future. I look forward to full body biometric analysis. I believe I will have to do much of the theoretical testing for improvements here in North America, though so far I have had good relationship with Karan Behl. Perhaps Martjin and his friends may prove me wrong. I know of others interested, even in Siberia. I would expect to make continuous improvements to these programs and add other biometric programs as time and funds permit. One of my first goals is to find a reliable scanner that can be used in clinical settings that will give clear detail to the ridge formation of the feet and hands of newborns. It may be possible to do that with RF (radio frequency) scanners but are they safe to use with newborns? I don't know.

I have my own program. I do not call it DMIT as I do not like the term. I have coined the more accurate term of Dermatoglyphic Biometric Aptitude Assessments (DBAA). I published my program for the first time a year ago in a class in Taipei after one of Mary's Lai's conferences and after I applied for patent protection. My book will detail it more thoroughly and I hope to publish that privately soon, possibly before the end of the year. Karan Behl and ADRC offers me the opportunity of making my program available though out the world by furnishing inexpensive manual pattern recognition labor in India. This is how his program is supplied to current assessors who are not required to know the prints or how to count the ridges but only measure atd angles.

In addition to sharing the reference manual to the ThumbRule assessment program which I shared with Martjin and some others, I have been seeking to confirm continued interest in these projects, asking those who are qualified counselors or HR evaluators whether they may be interested in becoming a licensee to administer these assessments, or if they might be interested in making any loan to the company, Amida Biometrics, L.L.C... We are new and it will take some time to build up the cash flow to cover the expansion expenses and operational costs we will face over the next twelve to eighteen months. So we are actively seeking loans for three years to help defray the start up costs. I have invested thousands over the past years traveling to Asia six times, and also hosting two conferences in Las Vegas and one in Budapest, covering the significant costs of intellectual property rights protection, and my funds are low, so I cannot make it to the finish line without some additional help. We welcome your questions and suggestions. We want to build up more of a track record before considering any type of public offering or seeking any venture capital investments. Obviously we hzave to overcome such nay sayers who really do not use the product as Martjin. If he gets tired of knocking oour work, he can go back and knock the Big Five Inventory, the CPI, MMPI, Briggs-Myers and DSM and perhaps join such luminaries as Kirk and Kutchins, professors at Columbia University and California State University at Sacramento, respectively. For me, I had waited for academically approved “scientific proof” I would have never been a palmist and never learned much about the subject.

I am not ashamed of thecommercial connections for this work. I have been advocating them for years. This is the only way the field can be financed. The field will have Dons and receive academic finances after it can generate enough jobs to attract graduates and financial contributions to academic institutions to attract the interest of those institutions. That is the way the modern system works, at least in the west and in market driven economies. Wake up Martjin, you are trying to stop a train by standing on the railroad tracks. Best hope that there is a cow catcher so you will not be crushed under the wheels.

I have invited you, Martjin, to every conference sponsored by IBMBS and I pleaded with you to come to Kuala Lumpur last year and present any paper you cared to present. You have always failed and refused to attend, even the conference in Budapest. I don’t think that was to far from the Netherlands as two of your fellow countrywomen attended. I do not believe you are qualified to discuss what takes place in the IBMBS conferences.

As my work shows, and that of Richard Unger, Jennifer Hirsch and Ronelle Coburn and works going back to Noel Juaquin in the 1930's you are completely ignorant of what may be discovered from fingerprints and are not a qualified judge in the area. You really lack basic knowledge to be considered a serious hand researcher.

Statistics? When Mary Lai started her public work she had built up a data base of 10,000. It now exceeds 100,000. If you had attended her 2006 or 2010 conference you would have seen presentations of studies and statistics. Unfortunately, most of the information was in Chinese. Lysander Poon of GeneCode was at the 2010 conference and attended my class on fingerprints after the conference. The Asians are seriously studying together. They are not waiting for western academic validations Anyone can be capable of applying “scientific methods. The Chinese, and I believe the Indians, can put men and women in space.

Neither licensees administering the program nor consumers receiving the reports are facing investment[s] of a huge amount of money (varying from hundreds of dollars for a personalized report, up to thousands of dollars in order to become a franchisee). The normal license fee that Amida Biometrics is charging is $600.00 to use the software. The normal report costs at retail is geared to be competitive with the cost if a Brigg-Meyers report, about $150.00. Amida Biometrics does not intend to control what other charges its licensees may make for any additional services. We intend to go head to head with the most common aptitude assessment reports, CPL. MMPI and Briggs-Meyers. It is a competitive market out there. By the way, you mentioned you found no one able to get their money back. I do not see any of these three making money back offers if you don’t like their test results. Did you ever get a money back offer on an SAT test, or an MMPI, CPI or Briggs-Meyers assessment?
avatar
Handreadered

Posts : 26
Join date : 2010-07-26
Age : 80
Location : Little Rock, Arkansas, USA

http://www.edcampbell.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:57 pm


Hi Ed,

For, the moment: thank you for posting your thoughts & sharing background details about your 'deal' with Thumbrule. At a later moment I will try to share a few more thoughts in response.


PS. You mentioned the work of Richard, Ronelle & Jennifer, but I don't recognize how any aspect of their fingerprint-work can be associated with the 'Dermatoglyphic Multiple Intelligence Test' (DMIT) - because as far as I know they did not get involved with this test. So I don't understand why you started mentioning their names in the perspective of this topic.

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5207
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Fingerprints are a form of Dermatoglyphics

Post  Handreadered on Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:29 pm

When you start attacking all people who look to fingerprints as correspondences for atributes to behavior, character and perhaps intelligence, you are not only attacking that terrible eastern DMIT, but those terrible western hand analists who find those correspondences in fingerprints, such as Unger, Hirsch, Coburn and myslef and all those back to Noel Jaquin, including those such as Fred Getttings, Beryl Hutchinson, Duke Alley (Elizabeth Peckman), Bevy C. Jaegers, and Paul Tseng. Sorry, but that is the long and short of it.
avatar
Handreadered

Posts : 26
Join date : 2010-07-26
Age : 80
Location : Little Rock, Arkansas, USA

http://www.edcampbell.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:59 am

Handreadered wrote:When you start attacking all people who look to fingerprints as correspondences for atributes to behavior, character and perhaps intelligence, you are not only attacking that terrible eastern DMIT, but those terrible western hand analists who find those correspondences in fingerprints, such as Unger, Hirsch, Coburn and myslef and all those back to Noel Jaquin, including those such as Fred Getttings, Beryl Hutchinson, Duke Alley (Elizabeth Peckman), Bevy C. Jaegers, and Paul Tseng. Sorry, but that is the long and short of it.

Ed, I have no idea why you think that I have 'attacked' the work of any of the people that you mentioned - including your own work. Because I certainly have not disputed the efforts made by Richard, Ronelle & Jennifer... nor did I question their experience & marketing strategies.

Regarding your own work (beyond your recently acquired position as a ThumbRule partner), please remember: over the years I have promoted & supported your work many times at my website(s) - e.g. at this forum I have made many times recommendations for your very informative web-article about dermatoglyphics & your valuable book.

(Again, I am only disappointed to see that you decided to become a partner of the DMIT-program. I have started sharing my worries with you earlier this year - regarding the validity of the DMIT product & it's marketing strategies. Remember, my worries resulted from studying the details presented by various related websites, which I have listed in the first post of this topic, and my conclusions are also the result of studying multiple sample-reports that are presented at those websites)


So, again, Ed can you please explain:

What made you think that I have 'attacked' the work of Richard, Ronelle & Jennifer???

(Again, I have not questioned their works at all!)

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5207
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Patti on Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:29 am

Hi Ed,
Thank you for sharing more detail about these new methods of potential human assessment.

I think there might be some miscommunication between you and Martijn. Although he can speak for himself here, from what I've read and recall from past posts, I thought Martijn disagreed with associating fingerprints with intelligence and/or IQ, and identifying the fingers to particular brain lobes. You do not seem to be defending or promoting that aspect of the DMIT and you even say you created a name for your program that more aptly describes your approach.

Handreadered wrote:

The program was first designed for child behavior, aptitude and teachable assessments, so that no child would be left behind but each could have the opportunity to realize his or her maximum potentials. Mary Lai, the Taiwanese pioneer working in the field for over a quarter of a century, said she liked to see the children before the age of two. This was because their brains are still so plastic and she could work to avoid many problems she had encountered with autistic, Asperger’s syndrome, and other children with apparent challenged learning or behavioral problems. Theoretically, when the scanning hardware is good enough, we could scan the new born’s hands (and feet) and provide aptitude reports when the mother checks out of the maternity ward. I will be working on this.

The area that I underlined and put in bold raises a lot of questions. If the brain is so pliable, or as you say - plastic, before the age of two, then there is a large possibility that the brain is being (and can be) rewired or programmed to match Mary's program.

Perhaps I've been reading too much about Agenda 21 and the New World Order plans but the thought of infants being precategorized using learning platforms (wired like robots without free choice/will) to be trained to become competent and compliant workers of the future - horrifies me.

Yes, it's good to recognize and bring out the best in each human, but the random serendipity and synchronicity of what the environment brings when 'uncontrolled and unmanipulated' could be phased out of human life and potential.

Lysander Poon of GeneCode studied under Mary Lai but he says his program does not strictly follow hers. Neither he nor Thumbrule use the foot prints. Lysander appeared to still be close to Mary when he attended her 2010 conference in Taipei and my class after the conference. Mary considers the foot prints important and I would like to add them in the future. I look forward to full body biometric analysis.

I understand copyrights would force variations in the programs and criteria different developers use, but I think it's important for there to be repetitive results. If developers evolve competitively in their own directions, and this program at its heart involves applying a system to the fingerprints - there could someday be completely conflicting reports. In other words, some could say a fingerprint pattern is extroverted and another would say it is introverted - and probably in truth it is neither as it may have nothing to do with introversion and extroversion.

I have my own program. I do not call it DMIT as I do not like the term. I have coined the more accurate term of Dermatoglyphic Biometric Aptitude Assessments (DBAA). I published my program for the first time a year ago in a class in Taipei after one of Mary's Lai's conferences and after I applied for patent protection. My book will detail it more thoroughly and I hope to publish that privately soon, possibly before the end of the year.

Congratulations on publishing your work, I remember when you were discussing your vision of this at the Handreading Cyber Cafe group a decade ago!! cheers


Statistics? When Mary Lai started her public work she had built up a data base of 10,000. It now exceeds 100,000. If you had attended her 2006 or 2010 conference you would have seen presentations of studies and statistics. Unfortunately, most of the information was in Chinese. Lysander Poon of GeneCode was at the 2010 conference and attended my class on fingerprints after the conference. The Asians are seriously studying together. They are not waiting for western academic validations Anyone can be capable of applying “scientific methods. The Chinese, and I believe the Indians, can put men and women in space.

Ok, now this is no excuse! (in bold above)

With all the accusations of this being a scam or pseudo-science, and without statistics, without published studies showing comparisons of controls compared to program results, it would seem reasonable that someone would have been able to translate relevant excerpts from her work to counteract the attacks.

If this program has only been used on children since 2006, they wouldn't yet have adult test cases to see how they as children were affected as only a few years have gone by since then.

Ed, I think you know that I support the concept that the fingerprints have relevance in human consciousness as the paper that I presented showed information from various published research studies illustrating the nature of the dermatoglyphics relationship to the developing nervous system.

So I hope you know I'm not attacking the concept or theories, but have the questions and concerns as outlined above. When I received your emailed invitation to be a part of the initial take off of your program I felt very honored to be asked. But, after considering it for a while, I felt I needed to wait until the program was out there for some time and I had a chance to personally study results before I could actually be able to market it myself.

avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:35 pm

Patti wrote:Hi Ed,
Thank you for sharing more detail about these new methods of potential human assessment.

I think there might be some miscommunication between you and Martijn. Although he can speak for himself here, from what I've read and recall from past posts, I thought Martijn disagreed with associating fingerprints with intelligence and/or IQ, and identifying the fingers to particular brain lobes. ...

Yes Patti, what you describe/summarize is true: those were indeed the first fundamental points that made me suspicious about the nature of DMIT.

(Later I had to add various aspects that relate to the marketing techniques used, and I was confronted with complaints reported by former franchise)


PS. I like the additional points that you've shared - but for the moment I will wait and see what Ed's answer will be regarding my question (about why Ed perceives that I have 'attacked' beyond DMIT the works of others as well - because his assumption about this is not correct at all - Patti I am glad that you tried to make Ed aware of this as well Thumbs up! )

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5207
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Martjin is down on the Palmists

Post  Handreadered on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:46 pm

Martjin, You said: “This system is very similar in way to Richard Unger’s system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglyphics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people’s self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.” You could also make the same remarks about my work, that of Jennifer Hirsch, Ronelle Coburn and works going back to Noel Jaquin in the 1930's . You basically call us all liars or stupid. The fact is you consistently demonstrate through such disparaging remarks about the legitimacy of all dermatoglyphic and palmistry work, your real feeling of contempt for this work and everyone involved in it. You have said that the entire literary history by palmistry and hand analysis is useless and those of us who have contributed to it have conspired to commit fraud or mislead the public..

The quote you gave of Sillybelieves.com shows total ignorance. I have no high regard for IQ as it tends focus on narrow matters. The statement on talents is baseless and refuted by centuries of hand analysis and the basis of western hand analysis. But that is unscientific and I suppose you would not use that just like you probably do not use the unscientifically approved aspirin. I don't believe it has ever met the FDA requierments.

I also do not hold with the theories of ties between lobes of the brain though I have found credible evidence of possible lesions in the brain stem from broke prints. I happen to use a good deal more of the hand to understand possible enate abilities, but I can derive some enate characteristics of people from the ridge patterns of the fingerprints.

I do believe that our work, applied to children, has proven in Taiwan and other places, to improve their chances. Suicide is not unknown and is endemic in many parts of the world, as studies in rural India on failing farmers has shown. When the child’s future is narrowly focused and he or she may fail in meeting entry into that focused goal, that child can see no future and suicide is the only option left as he can't feed himself or help support his family. Martjin, you speak without knowing the culture where these programs are offered. You are trying to impose your ideas of morality on cultures you do not even belong to.

As far as the history of “scientific dermatoglyphics” goes it has suffered from great ignorance. Many of its researchers seem to have accepted that all patterns of the same kind, have the same meaning and weight, no matter on what finger they are found. This was a ridiculous assumption to begin with but the arrogance of the western scientists in their disdain for the arts of palmistry made them fail to see that each finger and each hand had separate meanings. So much of the “scientific dermatoglyphics” in the twentieth century is junk science. Cummins and Midlo had fun quoting the Chines proverb of counting whorls to determine character and fell into the same trap. It helps to understand how carpenters and masons did things before you design a new form of building.

As far as history goes, I would not be surprised if we in the West have not made a few errors in Asian history. I am not looking for perfection but for useful knowledge. What we do today with the DMIT of DBAA as I call it, will lay the groundwork for the future, groundwork that has been largely not laid and unappreciated in the academic west. This is not the case in the East where I have been invited into and shared at their highest academic conferences in the field.

Finally, you mention that “independent research requires a proper state of mind - e.g. without being bordered by unwanted financial consequences, etc.” Tell that to General Electric, or General Dynamics, or Daimler Benz, or your chemical companies such as Akzo Nobel/Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI), your software developers, pharmaceutical and medical device companies. How is all their scientific research supported? See how far your pencil would have been replaced by a computer with your current naive outlook That is blind elitism.
avatar
Handreadered

Posts : 26
Join date : 2010-07-26
Age : 80
Location : Little Rock, Arkansas, USA

http://www.edcampbell.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:24 pm

Handreadered wrote:Martjin, You said: “This system is very similar in way to Richard Unger’s system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglyphics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people’s self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.”

You could also make the same remarks about my work, that of Jennifer Hirsch, Ronelle Coburn and works going back to Noel Jaquin in the 1930's . You basically call us all liars or stupid. The fact is you consistently demonstrate through such disparaging remarks about the legitimacy of all dermatoglyphic and palmistry work, your real feeling of contempt for this work and everyone involved in it. You have said that the entire literary history by palmistry and hand analysis is useless and those of us who have contributed to it have conspired to commit fraud or mislead the public..

Dear Ed, you've made a terrible mistake here, because you have quoted words that were written by Patti ... not me, see her post from last saturday:
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t431p45-thumbrule-dmit-iq-test-does-intelligence-correlate-with-fingerprints-dermatoglyphics#14091

PS. Ed, are you sure that the thoughts that you shared here (and in your earlier post)... were caused by MY words???


___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5207
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Patti on Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:16 pm

Handreadered wrote:Martjin, You said: “This system is very similar in way to Richard Unger’s system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglyphics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people’s self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.” You could also make the same remarks about my work, that of Jennifer Hirsch, Ronelle Coburn and works going back to Noel Jaquin in the 1930's . You basically call us all liars or stupid. The fact is you consistently demonstrate through such disparaging remarks about the legitimacy of all dermatoglyphic and palmistry work, your real feeling of contempt for this work and everyone involved in it. You have said that the entire literary history by palmistry and hand analysis is useless and those of us who have contributed to it have conspired to commit fraud or mislead the public..


lol!

Yes you have quoted from my post.

I don't think any of the authors you list mention statistics, but some do mention their vast collections of prints or images. So they could have if statistics were an interest to them.

If you take a look at Richard Unger's Life Prints page 277-278, you will see although he writes respectfully of Jaquin's and other's work and contributions, but has a lot of criticism for their methods and interpretations.

Bruce Lipton in his book The Biology of Belief writes about how pharmaceutical companies now have developed tests to weed out the huge portion of people who are easily susceptible to the placebo effect. It seems that about 50% of the population is involved. Therefore tests done could frequently show at least a 50% success rate when there is really no effect at all. The power of belief.

I'm not criticizing these developers of palmistry systems. I just have one of those minds that likes to look at charts of data. I am forever telling people that have a radial loop on the index that it's found in about 25% of the population and a whorl or arch on the little finger is quite rare as compared to a loop. Some people like hearing they have something in common with others or that they have a unique or rarely seen feature.





avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Patti on Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:20 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Handreadered wrote:Martjin, You said: “This system is very similar in way to Richard Unger’s system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglyphics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people’s self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.”

You could also make the same remarks about my work, that of Jennifer Hirsch, Ronelle Coburn and works going back to Noel Jaquin in the 1930's . You basically call us all liars or stupid. The fact is you consistently demonstrate through such disparaging remarks about the legitimacy of all dermatoglyphic and palmistry work, your real feeling of contempt for this work and everyone involved in it. You have said that the entire literary history by palmistry and hand analysis is useless and those of us who have contributed to it have conspired to commit fraud or mislead the public..

Dear Ed, you've made a terrible mistake here, because you have quoted words that were written by Patti ... not me, see her post from last saturday:
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t431p45-thumbrule-dmit-iq-test-does-intelligence-correlate-with-fingerprints-dermatoglyphics#14091

PS. Ed, are you sure that the thoughts that you shared here (and in your earlier post)... were caused by MY words???


Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:"The proof of the pudding is in the eating." Very Happy

I have been studying some of the materials involved in marketing this concept and have hesitated to get more involved because there are no results of success. The field is too new.

At the same time, I am watching it with great interest. This system is very similar in a way to Richard Unger's system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglypics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people's self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.

Hopefully, in the coming years as these systems are used by more people, the developers (or competitors) could provide data to support (or discredit) their claims.

This is where my interest lies - results.

Perhaps the cries of fraud and lack of scientific evidence will help to inspire these developers to provide credible evidence to support their claims. So to that end, I would not wish to discourage these systems to be actively used.


Hi Patti,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this topic.

Yes, I understand the things you mention - though you are right about that there is no validation, the developers & francisees certainly do make claims in that direction at their websites.

PS. The quote you mentioned, I have heard Ed using those words as well - but I wonder whether such verbal rethorics are justified. Because when one starts thinking about those words... one could wonder whether accepting the suggestion "eating is the proof of the pudding" might actually have a side-effect: because in any perspective these words can be perceived as a suggestive FIRST STEP in order to get people involved with ANY product/method.

So, even those words could result from a desire to get people involved.
Additionally, independend research requires a proper state of mind - e.g. without being bordered by unwanted financial consequences, etc..

Martijn, it seemed you were in agreement with my thoughts about the lack of statistics...?
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Misquote

Post  Handreadered on Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:59 pm

Sorry for the misquote. Probably does not matter as I don't hink ayone is paying much attention to us anyway.

Ed
avatar
Handreadered

Posts : 26
Join date : 2010-07-26
Age : 80
Location : Little Rock, Arkansas, USA

http://www.edcampbell.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Patti on Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:08 pm

Handreadered wrote:Sorry for the misquote. Probably does not matter as I don't hink ayone is paying much attention to us anyway.

Ed

Very Happy I think there's more interest in this topic than you realize.
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:18 pm

Patti wrote:
Handreadered wrote:Sorry for the misquote. Probably does not matter as I don't hink ayone is paying much attention to us anyway.

Ed

Very Happy I think there's more interest in this topic than you realize.

Yes Patti, sure, you're right again... because this topic has today arrived at the no.2 position in the TOP 10 of the 'most viewed topics' at this forum, see:
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/statistics

Over 10.000 views for this topic already!!!


PS. Probably because Google sends quite a lot of people who seek info related to the 'Dermatoglyphic Multiple Intelligence Test', etc.

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5207
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  jeanette on Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:07 am

Handreadered wrote:Sorry for the misquote. Probably does not matter as I don't hink ayone is paying much attention to us anyway.

Ed
Hello Mr Campbell.
What are you talking about? What a statement!. So you are saying this is a forum where people do not pay attention. Of course we do. We are all very serious about learning anything to do with palmistry therefore we read every post.
I bought your book and the first thing that put me off was the print was too small. However, I proceeded, thinking the book, reading with a magnifying glass, might be prove informative. Well I was disappointed to say the least, but in saying that I only scanned it , as it just did not get my interest.Maybe your negative vibes came through.
I don't know where the field of palmistry has taken you, but, assuming you came from the stages of learning like everybody else, you have definitely lost touch
Hope you find your way back and remember how to communicate with those you now seem to think of as inferior thinkers.
Mrs Jeanette Elder.

P.S. Never trust a Campbell. I have edited this and just want so say I don't expect a reply, as I think, you will think I don't merit one.


Last edited by jeanette on Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spellng mistake and further post)
avatar
jeanette

Posts : 568
Join date : 2010-07-27
Location : scotland

Back to top Go down

Thumbrule and Print Size in the Encyclopedia of Palmistry

Post  Handreadered on Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:10 am

Jeanette: Also heard recently that Terry Stokes finds the print too small. But he has a different impression of the quality of the work than you do. Perhaps he read it rather than trying to absorb its vibes. Did you try putting it under your pillow at night for the vibe inspection? Robert Hale published two editions in the U.K.: A hard bound and a soft bound edition. I find I can read either edition, if I remember to put my glasses on. The print is a lot easier to see than many of the fingerprints I regularly read with the ade of a 5x magnifier, strong light and my glasses. If you can't read the print, then I suggest you do not take up the study of dermatoglyphics. But thanks for looking in on my conversation with Martjin.
avatar
Handreadered

Posts : 26
Join date : 2010-07-26
Age : 80
Location : Little Rock, Arkansas, USA

http://www.edcampbell.com

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Lynn on Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:42 am

Jeanette, your Scots reference re "Never trust a Campbell" made me laugh. my ancestors were also from Scotland, and we have Campbells in our family Laughing

Ed, just to let you know I am also reading this, and I think you have completely misunderstood where Martijn is coming from in his arguments. Martijn was only talking about IQ....and it seems to me that you actually agree with him about IQ and fingerprints? I also think you underestimate Martijn's knowledge, in my opinion he is one of the most serious hand researchers in the world!

(edit) Ed, you know I applaud your efforts to get hand analysis recognised as a science in the international community, but I have the same doubts as Patti & Martijn about some of the claims made by DMIT.


Last edited by Lynn on Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total

___________________________________________
Lynn
www.handanalysis.co.uk
avatar
Lynn

Posts : 2408
Join date : 2010-07-24
Location : Devon, England

http://www.handanalysis.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Patti on Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:15 am

Handreadered wrote:
I also do not hold with the theories of ties between lobes of the brain though I have found credible evidence of possible lesions in the brain stem from broke prints.

I find this very interesting. Particularly that you say the brain stem is involved and not particular lobes. I hope you will share more about this!


As far as the history of “scientific dermatoglyphics” goes it has suffered from great ignorance. Many of its researchers seem to have accepted that all patterns of the same kind, have the same meaning and weight, no matter on what finger they are found. This was a ridiculous assumption to begin with but the arrogance of the western scientists in their disdain for the arts of palmistry made them fail to see that each finger and each hand had separate meanings. So much of the “scientific dermatoglyphics” in the twentieth century is junk science. Cummins and Midlo had fun quoting the Chines proverb of counting whorls to determine character and fell into the same trap. It helps to understand how carpenters and masons did things before you design a new form of building.

This Spring and Summer I read through quite a bit of documentation on dermatoglyphics from researchers in the 1800's through the 1900's, in particular work prior to Chris Plato's series of books.

What many may not have noticed is how the political/social/religious/cultural climate of the time periods influenced the research and what was written - just as research is messed with today (global warming, autism-vaccinations). Cummins and Midlo supported an idea that personal characteristics could be interpreted from fingerprint patterns, but the forensics field dominated the science and they had no use for psychology. Forensics websites mention Purkinje's discovery but make note, as if it's important, that he didn't associate them with individual identification. They fail to mention he did however suggest they could relate to individual characteristics.

Just as much of the funding that helped to study the fingerprints of aborted fetuses came from the anti-abortion Right to Lifers, researchers in the past probably had to do their work based on the available funding resources as well. Forensics, Darwinism and Eugenics were strong influences in early dermatoglyphic research of the twentieth century.

I hope I don't come across as patronizing with what I'm about to write. This reminds me of a particular tarot card in the Rider Waite deck. The 7 of Wands. A guy stands on the edge of a ledge holding a stick in a shielding way against what appears to be an unseen crowd all pointing more sticks at him challenging his ideas.

There's more to it than this but basically he either stands his ground or backs away. When this comes up in a reading it often represents an opportunity to be able to see where your weaknesses and strengths are and from there make yourself stronger.

If you can answer the questions of those of us who have studied dermatoglyphics for as long and seriously as you have then you can stand up to anyone.





Last edited by Patti on Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:53 am

Lynn wrote:Jeanette, your Scots reference re "Never trust a Campbell" made me laugh. my ancestors were also from Scotland, and we have Campbells in our family Laughing

Ed, just to let you know I am also reading this, and I think you have completely misunderstood where Martijn is coming from in his arguments. Martijn was only talking about IQ....and it seems to me that you actually agree with him about IQ and fingerprints? I also think you underestimate Martijn's knowledge, in my opinion he is probably the most serious hand researcher in the world!

(edit) Ed, you know I applaud your efforts to get hand analysis recognised as a science in the international community, but I have the same doubts as Patti & Martijn about some of the claims made by DMIT.

Hi Lynn,

Thanks for responding to Ed's comments.
And nice to hear that you share our doubts about the DMIT claims.

Thanks!


PS. After I observed that Ed had Patti's words in mind (which he assumed to be my words), one can wonder which other parts of his recent input resulted from this obvious mistake. I can only speculate about this because Ed only made a quick apollogy... without considering the implications of his terrible mistake.... because now it has become quite unclear (even up to confusing) whether there is any solid ground behind his 'personal' judgements...!!!?

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
avatar
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5207
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

DMIT

Post  karanbehl on Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:25 am

Hi Martinj,

Its an interesting debate going on here about DMIT.

My comments will be regarding the consumer forum complaints which Martinj has mentioned. These 3 are fake complaints mentioned in your blog

http://www.consumercomplaints.in/complaints/thumbrule-dermatoglyphics-pvt-ltd-surat-gujarat-c559849.html

In this, you can see our company reply as well. we dont have any franchise in surat which is being mentioned in this complaint and person who posted this complaint could nt reply after we clarify ourself.

http://thumbrulefraud.blogspot.com/2011/07/dmit-is-not-scientific-test.html

This blog was taken created after reading your blog and does not specify anything about the complaint.

http://www.complaintboard.in/complaints-reviews/246602-l145469.html

This is by our ex-employee who was fired on disciplinary ground and after involving in malpractice's. Our company has initiated legal action on this.

In your blog, you have mentioned about 20 websites but you have used the name Thumbrule DMIT instead of criticizing the concept of DMIT. I would like to clarify that Thumbrule is our brand name and its not the name of concept. Since our brand name seems so generic that every one has started calling the concept as Thumbrule DMIT especially you started discussion on your blog.

My another comment will be regarding the marketing of DMI in east by using an example of suicide rate. We are a country of 1.2 billion people and most of the parents want their kids to become doctor or engineer and no scope for other fields. Even in sports, only cricket is the only option but again you have to do well in maths & science, no matter what you do..If you score less than 95% of marks (in your countries, its grading system but here we have percentage), you will not get admission in your wishlist colleges. In this kind of competitive environment, children with learning disabilities are left with no option but to suicide. They are unable to cop up with the pressure coming from the competition..In this case, if thumbrule can help them identifying their preferred way of learning, their learning sensitivity & their main potential and suggest career and activities for kids (we have lot of live examples to support this), I think we are not doing anything wrong with the society but just helping them and ya of course, I am proud to say that we are a commercial company but at the same time, doing free test of socially underprivileged children. In sales, greed and fear sell and we are a country where creams which promise to whiten your complexion sells in huge numbers (although no customer has really claimed that it works) and brand like unilever selling it and no one ever question insurance companies, why are you playing with the emotions of people by showing them after death consequences because we know they are selling fear & greed (MLM companies like Amway selling both). Only a marketing person can understand this and this is not the right platform to talk about it and we can not expect academician to understand it.

and of course, any new theory coming from east will surely have to face lots of debates from west..and vice versa is not true..Indian yoga coming from USA to India is more acceptable than Indian yoga..there are lot of examples..

We have done test on few of the Top CEO of the country, actors, singers and sportspersons and their feedback speak about our product. We have parents coming to us and going with a satisfaction after the report. Our product speaks for us and I request anyone who is interested in taking a demo test can send us their finger print scans and see the results before commenting on the subject.

karanbehl

Posts : 4
Join date : 2011-11-29

Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 5 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum