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is there an ideal fingerprint

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is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  jeanette on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:13 pm

I am wondering. You know how there are descriptions for all the lines saying what is the ideal way to have them, eg the heart line which curves between the first two fingers and the others have descriptions of the way they ideally should be. Is there the ideal fingerprint type. Are loops the way they should be. Thanks,
Jeanette.


Last edited by Lynn on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : edited by Lynn - moved to Dermatoglyphics & fingerprints section)
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Patti on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:46 pm

jeanette wrote:I am wondering. You know how there are descriptions for all the lines saying what is the ideal way to have them, eg the heart line which curves between the first two fingers and the others have descriptions of the way they ideally should be. Is there the ideal fingerprint type. Are loops the way they should be. Thanks,
Jeanette.

Hi Jeanette,
I think this is the question you said you would direct to me from the post in the Disney thread.

I'm wondering if actually you are asking about the formation of fingerprints and what creates the different prints.

That's a favorite subject of mine. I always think of the developmental process involved when studying peoples creases and ridges.

The dermatoglyphics form based on the terrain/surface (environmental factors) they are forming on as well as following a genetic code (genetic factors).

Speed, order and timing play a role in the final shape of the print. In development, there are several processes that can happen at slightly different times. They can happen at slightly different times and order and the result is the arch, loop, whorl and all the combinations or variations.

An arch forms on a smooth surface of the volar pad (finger tips and pads in the palm) Which means that an arch forms early before the swollen volar pad develops a dimple in the center and deflates. Or an arch can form late when the volar pad is smooth again. The loop and whorl type family of prints form in between the time period the surface is smooth.

There really isn't any more of a perfect fingerprint than there is a perfect human. But that is another subject, eugenics.

There is however a progression of prints from arches to whorls. This chart might help you there:



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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  jeanette on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:18 pm

Hi Patti,
Do all fingerprints start from being arches, if so it looks to me that some just stay at arches,some go onto tented arches, loops and then whorls. If this is the case it is like the hand shapes eg the square (down to earth) like the arch fingerprint.
What I meant by the question was if you were only to see a persons fingerprints, nothing else,would an assessment be possible of their intelligence.
Thanks for the chart and reply.
Jeanette.
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  jeanette on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:41 pm

I was thinking again. We are all born with earth hands, some stay earth hands and others change, so do we all start with simple arches. Is it known if people with proper earth hands have simple arch fingerprints. Maybe to explain better what I meant by the original question is, say for example highly intelligent people were required for specialised work, say some type of research would by just looking at their fingerprints indicate those suitable.
Jeanette.
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Patti on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:23 pm

jeanette wrote:Hi Patti,
Do all fingerprints start from being arches, if so it looks to me that some just stay at arches,some go onto tented arches, loops and then whorls. If this is the case it is like the hand shapes eg the square (down to earth) like the arch fingerprint.
What I meant by the question was if you were only to see a persons fingerprints, nothing else,would an assessment be possible of their intelligence.
Thanks for the chart and reply.
Jeanette.

The embryology of the fingerprint, which I shared earlier the illustration, demonstrates that the center of the pattern forms first.

Loops and Whorls are much more common in the human population than are arches. So actually the opposite is true. An arch isn't really a pattern, it's a plain field of ridges. Like seen in areas of the palm. As you can see in the chart below, at most it is seen at a level of 10% and then on the index finger.

This illustration from "Finger Prints Palms & Soles" shows some statistics as to the frequency of fingerprints of a population recorded at Scotland Yard in the UK.







Last edited by Patti on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:52 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Patti on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:34 pm

jeanette wrote:Hi Patti,
What I meant by the question was if you were only to see a persons fingerprints, nothing else,would an assessment be possible of their intelligence.
Thanks for the chart and reply.
Jeanette.

Well, I can offer an opinion. But, I'm biased....I have double loop whorls on both thumbs, all other fingers a whorl, little fingers I'm undecided as the ridges are too fine. I've magnified them, scanned them as huge files, microphoto photography and of course ink printing and I just can't tell. They fold over - but like the tented arch/loop debate - there is much to discuss about the folded over loop counting as a whorl, even when you can see two triradii. Anyway, I'm a little partial to whorls.

There are statistics about intelligence and other physical and psychological characteristics applied to the different fingerprints. - Martijn is good with statistics.

Some fingerprints are more commonly found in relation to birth defects and syndromes. - This is one of Lynn's specialties.

<edit> and I should also include Pamelah and other of Richard Unger's students, and followers of his school of thought about your fingerprints and Life Purpose!! (sorry I omitted you guys)

This discussion probably should be moved to another category, speaking of Lynn and Martijn. wave


Last edited by Patti on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Patti on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:39 pm

jeanette wrote:I was thinking again. We are all born with earth hands, some stay earth hands and others change, so do we all start with simple arches. Is it known if people with proper earth hands have simple arch fingerprints. Maybe to explain better what I meant by the original question is, say for example highly intelligent people were required for specialised work, say some type of research would by just looking at their fingerprints indicate those suitable.
Jeanette.

Ok??? Where did you get the information that we are all born with "earth hands"?

Wonder if they were talking about the 'hand pod'. A stage of the hand in it's earliest stage of development, but that is only 6 weeks after conception. I've seen narrow, wide, round and square new born hands. Short fingers and long fingers, too.
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  jeanette on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:53 pm

Hi Patti,
Just shows how ignorant I am on this subject. I thought we were all born with earth hands. I now just think I will have to read up and study on this before making any further comments.I was thinking a few things, but I now realise I am not educated enough in this field to comment further. Thanks again and I am so glad I mentioned about us all being born with earth hands and have now been enlightened on this. Thanks a lot.
Jeanette.
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Patti on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:07 pm

jeanette wrote:Hi Patti,
Just shows how ignorant I am on this subject. I thought we were all born with earth hands. I now just think I will have to read up and study on this before making any further comments.I was thinking a few things, but I now realise I am not educated enough in this field to comment further. Thanks again and I am so glad I mentioned about us all being born with earth hands and have now been enlightened on this. Thanks a lot.
Jeanette.

This is how you become educated!

There are very, very, very few hand analysts that are even interested in understanding the actual "scientific" aspects of studying the hands. I began down that path when I began to question how could I be so accurately reading about people's lives from the markings in their hands. I searched backwards and discussed with others (and there were much more heated debates with the members of the former Handreading Cyber Cafe - whose members included Martijn, Lynn, Richard Unger, Christopher Jones, Ed Campbell, Liz Hallows Jennifer Hirsch, and Johnny Fincham, to name a few; than you just saw on the Disney thread).

In that search I discovered something that to me was a very enlightening insight and that was about being at the very cellular level of human development - but in particular (for us) limb development. The source of the cells for the upper limbs comes from a place in the fetus' spine near where the heart is located. And more important each stem cell as it approaches it's work zone to become something - tissue - bone....nail, it sends out a signal that says "I am, I exist".

Much of what we are reading in people's hands began forming around 7 weeks after conception.
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Is there and ideal fingerprint?

Post  Roberta on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:19 pm

Hi Patti, sunny

The subject of fingerprints utterly fascinates me. Could it be my 8 whorls and 2 Peacock's eyes? Anyway... you are so very knowledgeable on the subject and I appreciate you so much. Are there any particular books you might recommend to further my studies regarding this?

Many thanks!
Roberta

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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Lynn on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:22 pm

Jeanette, I know where you got the idea that babies are all born with earth hands - Johnny's book! I have discussed this with Johnny as I disagree with him. I've seen newborns with long thin fingers / rectangular palms. Once they start to put on weight, the hands appear more 'podgy' & earthy. Johnny admitted he hadn't seen many newborns and was talking about older babies.

Patti thanks for pointing out that this topic is in the wrong (sub)forum, I'll move it now!
(edit - moved to dermatoglyphics section)

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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  jeanette on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:46 pm

Hi Patti,
So much to learn but that chart you posted does it show no.1 as a whorl. So are we starting with whorls and developing into the others. Sorry if this is a silly question. As I have said before I know very little about the computer and I wish I knew how to post my fingerprints, but all I can say is complicated things have to be explained to me over and over again, but once I eventually get to understand the situation I am good at discovering further. Only problem is, as I say, getting the initial understanding.
Jeanette.
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Lynn on Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:50 pm

jeanette wrote:Hi Patti,
Do all fingerprints start from being arches, if so it looks to me that some just stay at arches,some go onto tented arches, loops and then whorls. If this is the case it is like the hand shapes eg the square (down to earth) like the arch fingerprint.
What I meant by the question was if you were only to see a persons fingerprints, nothing else,would an assessment be possible of their intelligence.
Thanks for the chart and reply.
Jeanette.

jeanette wrote:I was thinking again. We are all born with earth hands, some stay earth hands and others change, so do we all start with simple arches. Is it known if people with proper earth hands have simple arch fingerprints. Maybe to explain better what I meant by the original question is, say for example highly intelligent people were required for specialised work, say some type of research would by just looking at their fingerprints indicate those suitable.
Jeanette.

Patti knows more than I do about how fingerprints form (I used to know it when we had the discussions years ago, but forgotten!). Yes Jeanette, in the 5 element system the arch is ruled by earth element, like the square palm with short fingers is an earth hand. But not all people with earth hands have arch fingerprints, you can find arches on all handshapes.

No, you can't tell someone's intelligence just by looking at their fingerprints.
But fingerprints do tell us something about our modes of thinking & our basic motivations in life. Re the specialist work eg research, again I don't think you could tell from the fingerprints - whorls can be good at research, but so can arches! As you know, we have to look at everything on the hand in conjunction with everything else!

related discussion here about DMIT IQ test
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t431-thumbrule-dmit-iq-test-does-intelligence-correlate-with-fingerprints-dermatoglyphics?

Martijn has been making some studies on intelligence in the hand, related to the lines
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t146-new-insights-how-your-primary-palmar-lines-relate-to-your-intelligence?

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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  jeanette on Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:57 pm

Hi Lynn,
Thanks, a lot to try and understand, will take a very long time. I have thought better to describe what I am like. I could never invent anything but could develope it.
Jeanette.
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Patti on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:53 am

Roberta wrote:Hi Patti, sunny

The subject of fingerprints utterly fascinates me. Could it be my 8 whorls and 2 Peacock's eyes? Anyway... you are so very knowledgeable on the subject and I appreciate you so much. Are there any particular books you might recommend to further my studies regarding this?

Many thanks!
Roberta

Thank you so very much Roberta! hug

Bet all those whorls play a huge role! The peacocks are a subcategory of whorls so that makes 10 whorls! That's not so common as 90% of people have loops on their little fingers. (as seen in the chart above)

There are books I'd recommend, but that's the problem, each book only contains a few paragraphs or even sentences to work with. Only a few palmistry books have the correct information, or interpretation of the correct information.

I just pulled off the shelf my favorite Palmistry book with developmental information. It's an older book (and my first palmistry book) "The New fortune in Your Hand" Elizabeth Daniels Squire. She quoted from research and from sources such as Cummins & Midlo.

The accurate information is mostly found in developmental biology references. The late Chris Plato and his teams of researchers (whose names are repeated in almost all references on limb development) have several books (expensive to purchase, but in the U.S. your local library will have them delivered from University libraries and you can borrow them for weeks) "The State of Dermatoglyphics"

When I was posting back to Jeanette earlier, I thought about what books to recommend to her and realized there really wasn't just one book. Many are rare and out of print.

Then there was that flash of insight! Liz Hallows has been inspiring and motivating me to write about limb development for about 8 years now! I do believe it's time!

sunny

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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Patti on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:16 am

jeanette wrote:Hi Patti,
So much to learn but that chart you posted does it show no.1 as a whorl. So are we starting with whorls and developing into the others. Sorry if this is a silly question. As I have said before I know very little about the computer and I wish I knew how to post my fingerprints, but all I can say is complicated things have to be explained to me over and over again, but once I eventually get to understand the situation I am good at discovering further. Only problem is, as I say, getting the initial understanding.
Jeanette.

The way I look at that chart and it's progression is a mix of genetics. Mom might have a whorl and Dad has an loop and maybe the kids gets a double loop. Or Mom's genes might be more dominant...etc. In that sense there can be a progressive movement to or from a pattern through the generations.

Currently, research is being done on rodents because of how quickly they can reproduce several generations and study the effects on the patterns on the paw pads.

From how you describe yourself and from communicating with you since last summer, I'm going to make a guess. Arches and low loops would fit the need to have things explained over. Arches tend to be more pragmatic and methodical. They may not see the picture to a jig saw puzzle until it's almost complete. Loops are inquisitive and are fascinated and inspired by the world around them. They may more often look outside themselves for information.

If you have whorls, I'd think they are on your thumbs. Whorls center in on things quickly, tend to grasp the whole picture from the pieces. Arches would see that as making risky assumptions, but whorl's visualization abilities allow them to build from abstract data. Whorls love research and detail. Arches have patience with detail.

What are your fingerprints?
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Patti on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:27 am

Lynn wrote:
jeanette wrote:Hi Patti,
Do all fingerprints start from being arches, if so it looks to me that some just stay at arches,some go onto tented arches, loops and then whorls. If this is the case it is like the hand shapes eg the square (down to earth) like the arch fingerprint.
What I meant by the question was if you were only to see a persons fingerprints, nothing else,would an assessment be possible of their intelligence.
Thanks for the chart and reply.
Jeanette.

jeanette wrote:I was thinking again. We are all born with earth hands, some stay earth hands and others change, so do we all start with simple arches. Is it known if people with proper earth hands have simple arch fingerprints. Maybe to explain better what I meant by the original question is, say for example highly intelligent people were required for specialised work, say some type of research would by just looking at their fingerprints indicate those suitable.
Jeanette.

Patti knows more than I do about how fingerprints form (I used to know it when we had the discussions years ago, but forgotten!). Yes Jeanette, in the 5 element system the arch is ruled by earth element, like the square palm with short fingers is an earth hand. But not all people with earth hands have arch fingerprints, you can find arches on all handshapes.

No, you can't tell someone's intelligence just by looking at their fingerprints.
But fingerprints do tell us something about our modes of thinking & our basic motivations in life. Re the specialist work eg research, again I don't think you could tell from the fingerprints - whorls can be good at research, but so can arches! As you know, we have to look at everything on the hand in conjunction with everything else!

related discussion here about DMIT IQ test
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t431-thumbrule-dmit-iq-test-does-intelligence-correlate-with-fingerprints-dermatoglyphics?

Martijn has been making some studies on intelligence in the hand, related to the lines
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t146-new-insights-how-your-primary-palmar-lines-relate-to-your-intelligence?

Thank you Lynn!! Thanks!
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Is there an ideal fingerprint?

Post  Roberta on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:51 pm

Hi Patti,

Thanks so much for your thoughtful and very helpful response. I will look for a used copy of Elizabeth Daniels Squire's book on Amazon. I priced the used Cummins and Midlo book a few days ago but it is way out of my price range. And I will definitely have my dear little library get The State of Dermatoglyphics for me from the U of UT. You are a fountain of information and wisdom!
And I certainly hope you do write your book on limb development! It is much needed. I'll be at your book signing party!

Many thanks, Thanks!
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Parender on Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:03 pm

Roberta wrote:Hi Patti, sunny

The subject of fingerprints utterly fascinates me. Could it be my 8 whorls and 2 Peacock's eyes? Anyway... you are so very knowledgeable on the subject and I appreciate you so much. Are there any particular books you might recommend to further my studies regarding this?

Many thanks!
Roberta


Are you sure you have such whorl patterns on your fingertips, Roberta?

Ten whorls are too much. Too much of everything is bad. This will turn ‘service’ into ‘servitude’. In good hands the persons with whorls patterns on their fingertips find pleasure in doing “helpful activities” doing or performing services. Actually they are providers. They can provide divine, spiritual services too to public. These are self-confident, much of the time found self employed persons and follow their own whims and are quite secretive too. However, they would not be vulnerable as compare to their Arch brothers.

In rather not so good hand, however, if found accompanied with a short supple flexible thumb than it is a sign of infidelity and immorality especially in women. In traditional palmistry the whorl patterns with a simian line commonly considered to be found on certain types of criminals too that indicated some defect of moral perception that would attribute to some psychological deficiency.

A short straight Head Line and short critical nails would make him a criminal, a rebel, perhaps even a beatnik. They are raw. It involves a sort of nakedness of the mind. Whorl patterns belong to those who like to be in control and in charge of situations. They have their own way of doing things and dislike conforming to other people’s views and opinions.

I strongly believe that palm lines and dermatoglyphics are made for each other. Fingerprints must be analyzed accordingly.

For nice persons, their Life Fulfillment Formula will depend upon their answering to this question.

How much should you do for family and friends before a healthy concern turns into grossly inappropriate self-sacrifice?


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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Lynn on Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:58 am

Thanks Patti, I 've never seen Elizabeth Daniels Squire's book, but ordered a used copy from Amazon associates last night. BUT only after I placed the order did I notice that I've bought " Fortune in Your Hand" instead of "The New Fortune in Your Hand" Oh...nooo! We'll have to compare notes when it arrives, to see if it is a re-print of the same book or whether I ordered the wrong one!

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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Lynn on Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:08 am

Roberta wrote:The subject of fingerprints utterly fascinates me. Could it be my 8 whorls and 2 Peacock's eyes?

Yes Roberta I think your whorls / peacocks eyes (especially on Mercury finger) would bring this ability to be fascinated, even obsessed, by some kind of specialist subject.

Parender wrote:
Are you sure you have such whorl patterns on your fingertips, Roberta?

Ten whorls are too much....... This will turn ‘service’ into ‘servitude’. ...... (edited/snipped out much of Parender's reply) ....How much should you do for family and friends before a healthy concern turns into grossly inappropriate self-sacrifice?

Great observations & questions Parender Thumbs up! I am guessing that Roberta's already learnt this lesson re service vs servitude, helping others vs self-sacrifice by her response to Jeanette on this other discussion.
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t624-why-are-people-so-thoughtless#5257

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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Patti on Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:49 am

Thanks! Roberta!!

nice thread

Parender, I too find your words that Lynn quoted good food for thought! Thank you!
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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  Parender on Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:06 am

Patti wrote: Thanks! Roberta!!

nice thread

Parender, I too find your words that Lynn quoted good food for thought! Thank you!


Sounds great!

Thanks a lot Lynn, thanks a lot Patti.
Thanks a lot Roberta for asking question.

Greetings from India!

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Re: is there an ideal fingerprint

Post  jeanette on Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:19 pm

Lynn wrote:Thanks Patti, I 've never seen Elizabeth Daniels Squire's book, but ordered a used copy from Amazon associates last night. BUT only after I placed the order did I notice that I've bought " Fortune in Your Hand" instead of "The New Fortune in Your Hand" Oh...nooo! We'll have to compare notes when it arrives, to see if it is a re-print of the same book or whether I ordered the wrong one!
Hi Lynn,
So annoying to have ordered the wrong book. I did that once and what a carry on I had cancelling it, due my lack of computing skills. I must order it too. I don't seem to know what book I am reading at the moment. I go from one to the other and something else has turned up to take up my attention. I think Patti should write her book. By the time she writes it hopefully I will be free to give it the attention it will deserve. I think it will be so interesting. Something else to learn.
Jeanette.
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Is there and ideal fingerprint

Post  Roberta on Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:45 pm

Parender--

Yes, I'm quite certain that my fingerprints are all whorls! Why would you think that I wouldn't know?

FYI--I've never been anyone's door mat.

Thanks!
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