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The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition!

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The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Empty Re: The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition!

Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:46 am

Lynn wrote:
In my analogy it's enough for the 3 people to 'meet around the table' or in fingerprints for the 3 ridge fields to 'join at the grooves' (cafe table in my analogy being white space where the grooves join) to fulfil the criteria of 3 ridge systems meeting. Then to trace the radiants we have to move to the ridge.
(Patti, you and I are so nearly understanding each other!) Thumbs up!

Yes, I can completely agree with you.

I did stop using the visuals, until I realized that Penrose, the FBI and now Wilder all pointed out we should visualize these ideas.

I think what I have drawn with the green and yellow lines is exactly what Wilder has drawn in most of the illustrations of triradii in hand examples in the book.

I think when he drew the triradii with the colored in triangle with the radiants out the corners, that was the 3 ridges meeting at the corners, a Delta. When he drew the 3 ridges meeting like a Y, that was the Star.

But, you are saying we are in agreement as long as I don't draw in something that isn't visibly there? Right?



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Post  Lynn on Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:48 am

OK I just cleared my cache & now I can see your picture Patti. In my mind I was only meeting with friends for coffee, not conducting a seance! Very Happy
but I see what you are saying. Remember my headline is shorter and straighter than yours, so you go one step further into the imaginative realm, things that would never occur to me & sometimes I have difficulty comprehending! But I am understanding & agreeing with most of what you said recently on these discussions. Thumbs up!

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:55 am

Lynn wrote:Here is yet another definition of triradius.....

http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~bobh/research/fingerprints/Yanchep2006_bobh.pdf

2. A triradius or delta is formed when three fields surround a point, leaving a gap in the centre.

what do you think they mean by "leaving a gap in the centre." ?

Lynn, this definition for a triradius is not accurate (basically he described an 'empty' triradial area).

And for example, take a look at what he describes for a tented arch.

"A tented arch is similar to the plain arch, but contains one ridge with a high curvature and contains one loop and one delta."

( confused ... Sounds like sonsense to me: 'he heard the bell ringing... but probably never saw it ringing')

The author is obviously a computer scientist, but do you think that is very experienced in the field of fingerprints?

(Sorry, I don't think so... )

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Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:57 am

Lynn wrote:OK I just cleared my cache & now I can see your picture Patti. In my mind I was only meeting with friends for coffee, not conducting a seance! Very Happy
but I see what you are saying. Remember my headline is shorter and straighter than yours, so you go one step further into the imaginative realm, things that would never occur to me & sometimes I have difficulty comprehending! But I am understanding & agreeing with most of what you said recently on these discussions. Thumbs up!
Thanks!
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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:03 am

Lynn wrote:Martijn said
Patti, I now offically welcome you in... 'Bifurcation land'!!

OK, now I read Wilder, Mrtijn will be pleased to know that I am also happy to take an extended vacation in Bifurcation land.Very Happy

With the same reservations as Patti: bifurcation looks like a star triradius, but the ridge flow is different. bifurcation definition is one ridge that divides, but can also look like 2 ridges abutting. Whereas a 'true' 'star' triradius is 3 radiants coming from (or meeting at) a central point. BUt I concede that it looks like a bifurcation with a wider angle.

Patti said
Hopefully you'll soon join Lynn and me in the land of triangles, too.

@Patti - rolling on the floor


Okay Lynn, sounds great news... you're welcome!

(And I will inform the F.B.I. to book a double 'cancelation insurance' for each of you... so that you can leave their country at anytime, whenever you want... hand dance )

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sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
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Post  Lynn on Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:04 am

Patti wrote:
Lynn wrote:
In my analogy it's enough for the 3 people to 'meet around the table' or in fingerprints for the 3 ridge fields to 'join at the grooves' (cafe table in my analogy being white space where the grooves join) to fulfil the criteria of 3 ridge systems meeting. Then to trace the radiants we have to move to the ridge.
(Patti, you and I are so nearly understanding each other!) Thumbs up!

Yes, I can completely agree with you.

I did stop using the visuals, until I realized that Penrose, the FBI and now Wilder all pointed out we should visualize these ideas.

I think what I have drawn with the green and yellow lines is exactly what Wilder has drawn in most of the illustrations of triradii in hand examples in the book.

I think when he drew the triradii with the colored in triangle with the radiants out the corners, that was the 3 ridges meeting at the corners, a Delta. When he drew the 3 ridges meeting like a Y, that was the Star.

But, you are saying we are in agreement as long as I don't draw in something that isn't visibly there? Right?

(hi Patti, you posted while I was writing, maybe I already answered your qustion before you asked it?! :-)

Yes! I think we are in agreement as long as you don't draw in something that isn't visibly there!! :-)
eg The problem I have with this
The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Delta_17
is that - whilst I can relate to the yellow lines as being the innermost ridges of the 3 fields converging, the green lines may not exist in every case, also they seem to be drawn coming from the grooves between the yellow lines (whereas radiants are ridges). Wilder is just drawing your yellow lines with space between coloured in black. The way I see it... your yellow lines are the borders of the triradial area, and the triradial point is in the centre of that area.

sorry tired now.... zzzzz g'nite.... Sleep

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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:07 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:You are also incorrect about the FBI. The triangular plot is all over the place in the figures. Including the first one with the 2 fields and the lake.

They explain you must get this concept of the delta or you'll mess up.

You're still messing up.

lol

Hi Patti,

I think nowhere in the F.B.I. is any comment made about any 'triangular' shape in the ridges. So the examples where there is any such shape seen... they allows simply follow the path of the rules (+ the principles related to the river delta) - which are unrelated to any 'triangular' shape at all.

But agian, also in the work of Schaumann & Alter the concept of the 'triangular plot' is not seen at all.

And you should really not underestimate the fact that in Cummins & Midlo the concept of the 'triangular plot' is only described in the perspective of Galton's theory, and on page 58 they describe in their comments about the definition that in the (practical) usage they do not discriminate the 'triangular plot' from your 'star-triangle':

"In the usage here adopted no discrimination is made between these two main forms of structural organization. Since a triradius is present even when there is no true delta, the term triradius is used througout this work."

Therefore formally one should better not speak about just 2 'different' types of triradii - because none of the books have made such a recommendation.


I think it makes sense if we continue in our discussion to use the label 'triangular triradius', but I am not going to adopt your suggestion of a 'star-triradius'... because that sounds to me quite like describing a... 'round ball'.

I hope you understand.


Schaumann & Alter describe this triangular shape on page 34 regarding Fig. D, E & F.

The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Schaum10
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Post  Lynn on Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:15 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Lynn wrote:Here is yet another definition of triradius.....

http://www.csse.uwa.edu.au/~bobh/research/fingerprints/Yanchep2006_bobh.pdf

2. A triradius or delta is formed when three fields surround a point, leaving a gap in the centre.

what do you think they mean by "leaving a gap in the centre." ?

Lynn, this definition for a triradius is not accurate (basically he described an 'empty' triradial area).

And for example, take a look at what he describes for a tented arch.

"A tented arch is similar to the plain arch, but contains one ridge with a high curvature and contains one loop and one delta."

( confused ... Sounds like sonsense to me: 'he heard the bell ringing... but probably never saw it ringing')

The author is obviously a computer scientist, but do you think that is very experienced in the field of fingerprints?

(Sorry, I don't think so... )

re "The author is obviously a computer scientist, but do you think that is very experienced in the field of fingerprints?"
yeah, I wondered about the same thing. But I also "heard the bell ringing" when he described
"2. A triradius or delta is formed when three fields surround a point, leaving a gap in the centre."

it describes C&M delta, and also Wilder's & my way of looking at diverging ridges, and Schaumann & Alter's (from Penrose) 3.5 E

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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:20 am

Lynn wrote:
Patti wrote:
Lynn wrote:
In my analogy it's enough for the 3 people to 'meet around the table' or in fingerprints for the 3 ridge fields to 'join at the grooves' (cafe table in my analogy being white space where the grooves join) to fulfil the criteria of 3 ridge systems meeting. Then to trace the radiants we have to move to the ridge.
(Patti, you and I are so nearly understanding each other!) Thumbs up!

Yes, I can completely agree with you.

I did stop using the visuals, until I realized that Penrose, the FBI and now Wilder all pointed out we should visualize these ideas.

I think what I have drawn with the green and yellow lines is exactly what Wilder has drawn in most of the illustrations of triradii in hand examples in the book.

I think when he drew the triradii with the colored in triangle with the radiants out the corners, that was the 3 ridges meeting at the corners, a Delta. When he drew the 3 ridges meeting like a Y, that was the Star.

But, you are saying we are in agreement as long as I don't draw in something that isn't visibly there? Right?

(hi Patti, you posted while I was writing, maybe I already answered your qustion before you asked it?! :-)

Yes! I think we are in agreement as long as you don't draw in something that isn't visibly there!! :-)
eg The problem I have with this
The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Delta_17
is that - whilst I can relate to the yellow lines as being the innermost ridges of the 3 fields converging, the green lines may not exist in every case, also they seem to be drawn coming from the grooves between the yellow lines (whereas radiants are ridges). Wilder is just drawing your yellow lines with space between coloured in black. The way I see it... your yellow lines are the borders of the triradial area, and the triradial point is in the centre of that area.

sorry tired now.... zzzzz g'nite.... Sleep

I understand and agree in that perspective.

That's why the missing pieces. I don't really think both the green and yellow lines are present as I've drawn them. But, it's a concept of if there isn't a Star, there is a Delta. But even in the Star pattern there are still 3 curving fields just outside - that w/o the Star, would be just the Delta. That's why I think C & M say a triradius is always there. There is always the 3 fields converging. Sometimes there is a Y in the center and sometimes not, but there are always the 3 fields.

I see the innermost ridges of these 3 fields when the Star is missing as a Delta.

Shocked

As I write this I realize more so what you might be pointing out. Idea

The Delta is always there colored in yellow. But inside the yellow triangle is not always the green lines. They are however always at the corners and as you say following a ridge out as a sci. type line.

I need to think of a way to illustrate that...

By drawing the green radiants inward to meet in the center as well as line up to flow right out the corners was to me, an illustration of the 'geometric center'. The two configurations could 'visually' always be seen as an 'idea' or template, but one wasn't to expect to see a complete Star Delta in combined fashion.

Wilder's sketches were a better illustration of 2 types.
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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:32 am

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:
You just don't get it.

Patti, you've managed to communicate your 'idea' very well.

But I can not accept it, because it includes an element of a phantasy: illustrated by the representation of only 'two meeting ridges' in the left bottom example (in the picture below).

You are ignoring the fact that there is a 'bifurcation'.

'Simples!'


The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Delta_15

The bifurcation or Star is on the right.

In this illustration I am combining a lot of resource information.

Newer models designed for biometrics describe the formation of the triradius as the last group of ridges to form. The 3 fields close in on each other.

This closing in of 3 fields is shown by the yellow triangles.

As more pressure is applied and/or less space is available at the time that the developmental stage is where the 3 innermost ridges are located they may form as a triangle Delta shape, in yellow, or completely pressurized or narrowed down in space to a Star shape, in green.

Biometrics and other developmental sources describe a wave of development in ridges - waving toward the triradius. In reality it takes days or weeks for the volar pad to rise and deflate - but *imagine* this slow motion process speeded up. (as in one of the graphics you uploaded)

There is a time and place that this wave comes to an end at the triradial point and the ridges are no longer formed of 'individual units' (Wilder) but the units have merged into rows. These individual units are formed after the Merkel cells form hexagon shaped groups and then in a 'connect the dot' fashion, create the rows, or merged units.

These rows form perpendicular to the tension from the nail bed, distally and laterally as well as the interphalangeal crease proximal to the fingertip.

These tensions and the flow results in only two configurations or 'variants' of these two. The two are the Star and the Delta. A 3 pointed star or a triangle.

"Some" examples of a 3 pointed Star as incomplete are found in the column on the right and some examples of the triangular Delta is shown on the left.

The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Delta_16

Did either of you have an opinion about what I've written here?
Patti
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Post  Lynn on Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:34 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Lynn wrote:Martijn said
Patti, I now offically welcome you in... 'Bifurcation land'!!

OK, now I read Wilder, Mrtijn will be pleased to know that I am also happy to take an extended vacation in Bifurcation land.Very Happy

With the same reservations as Patti: bifurcation looks like a star triradius, but the ridge flow is different. bifurcation definition is one ridge that divides, but can also look like 2 ridges abutting. Whereas a 'true' 'star' triradius is 3 radiants coming from (or meeting at) a central point. BUt I concede that it looks like a bifurcation with a wider angle.

Patti said
Hopefully you'll soon join Lynn and me in the land of triangles, too.

@Patti - rolling on the floor


Okay Lynn, sounds great news... you're welcome!

(And I will inform the F.B.I. to book a double 'cancelation insurance' for each of you... so that you can leave their country at anytime, whenever you want... hand dance )

hey Martijn, whilst I appreciate your humour... talk of 'travel insurance' is too close to scary tonight ...affraid....I am freaked out by news of the bomb in Marrakech, in Argana cafe where I was sitting 2 months ago!!
Can we make "bifurcation land" a more peaceful place in my mind tonight please? After seeing the carriage in the Royal Wedding today, "Disneyland" comes to mind, and fits in perfectly with our dermatoglyphic discussions. Thanks!

The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Wish-u10

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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:52 am

Lynn wrote:[
hey Martijn, whilst I appreciate your humour... talk of 'travel insurance' is too close to scary tonight ...affraid....I am freaked out by news of the bomb in Marrakech, in Argana cafe where I was sitting 2 months ago!!Can we make "bifurcation land" a more peaceful place in my mind tonight please? After seeing the carriage in the Royal Wedding today, "Disneyland" comes to mind, and fits in perfectly with our dermatoglyphic discussions. Thanks!

The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Wish-u10

Wow!!!!!! OMG

and yes Disneyland is a fine place for a Friday night!
Patti
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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:54 am

Lynn wrote:
The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Wish-u10

Oh, I think I get it! A converging bright wave of a field with a really bright star...? Um, no?

scratch
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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:42 am

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:You are also incorrect about the FBI. The triangular plot is all over the place in the figures. Including the first one with the 2 fields and the lake.

They explain you must get this concept of the delta or you'll mess up.

You're still messing up.

lol

Hi Patti,

I think nowhere in the F.B.I. is any comment made about any 'triangular' shape in the ridges. So the examples where there is any such shape seen... they allows simply follow the path of the rules (+ the principles related to the river delta) - which are unrelated to any 'triangular' shape at all.

But agian, also in the work of Schaumann & Alter the concept of the 'triangular plot' is not seen at all.

And you should really not underestimate the fact that in Cummins & Midlo the concept of the 'triangular plot' is only described in the perspective of Galton's theory, and on page 58 they describe in their comments about the definition that in the (practical) usage they do not discriminate the 'triangular plot' from your 'star-triangle':

"In the usage here adopted no discrimination is made between these two main forms of structural organization. Since a triradius is present even when there is no true delta, the term triradius is used througout this work."

Therefore formally one should better not speak about just 2 'different' types of triradii - because none of the books have made such a recommendation.


I think it makes sense if we continue in our discussion to use the label 'triangular triradius', but I am not going to adopt your suggestion of a 'star-triradius'... because that sounds to me quite like describing a... 'round ball'.

I hope you understand.


Schaumann & Alter describe this triangular shape on page 34 regarding Fig. D, E & F.

The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Schaum10

Patti, in the underlined comment Schaumann & Alter are clearly referring to figure 3.5 E + F... and in both examples there is no 'triangular plot'!

And there is no 'triangular shape' in figure 3.5 D either.


(Your choice suggests that you associate the word 'triangular shape'... with a 'triradial area', which you called a 'triradial shape' ... but both are not the same at all.)

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:47 am

Lynn wrote:
hey Martijn, whilst I appreciate your humour... talk of 'travel insurance' is too close to scary tonight ...affraid....I am freaked out by news of the bomb in Marrakech, in Argana cafe where I was sitting 2 months ago!!
Can we make "bifurcation land" a more peaceful place in my mind tonight please? After seeing the carriage in the Royal Wedding today, "Disneyland" comes to mind, and fits in perfectly with our dermatoglyphic discussions. Thanks!

The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Wish-u10

I am sorry to hear about that news Lynn, I don't know what to say... I am speachless.

Crying or Very sad


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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:58 am

Patti wrote:
Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:
You just don't get it.

Patti, you've managed to communicate your 'idea' very well.

But I can not accept it, because it includes an element of a phantasy: illustrated by the representation of only 'two meeting ridges' in the left bottom example (in the picture below).

You are ignoring the fact that there is a 'bifurcation'.

'Simples!'


The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Delta_15

The bifurcation or Star is on the right.

In this illustration I am combining a lot of resource information.

Newer models designed for biometrics describe the formation of the triradius as the last group of ridges to form. The 3 fields close in on each other.

This closing in of 3 fields is shown by the yellow triangles.

As more pressure is applied and/or less space is available at the time that the developmental stage is where the 3 innermost ridges are located they may form as a triangle Delta shape, in yellow, or completely pressurized or narrowed down in space to a Star shape, in green.

Biometrics and other developmental sources describe a wave of development in ridges - waving toward the triradius. In reality it takes days or weeks for the volar pad to rise and deflate - but *imagine* this slow motion process speeded up. (as in one of the graphics you uploaded)

There is a time and place that this wave comes to an end at the triradial point and the ridges are no longer formed of 'individual units' (Wilder) but the units have merged into rows. These individual units are formed after the Merkel cells form hexagon shaped groups and then in a 'connect the dot' fashion, create the rows, or merged units.

These rows form perpendicular to the tension from the nail bed, distally and laterally as well as the interphalangeal crease proximal to the fingertip.

These tensions and the flow results in only two configurations or 'variants' of these two. The two are the Star and the Delta. A 3 pointed star or a triangle.

"Some" examples of a 3 pointed Star as incomplete are found in the column on the right and some examples of the triangular Delta is shown on the left.

The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Delta_16

Did either of you have an opinion about what I've written here?

Yes Patti, I have a short thought to add:

Your model is problematic because it suggests that it doesn't matter all what is going on outside the yellow ridges... which is quite unrealist.

(Your assocation with the lowest left example with Kiwihands fingerprint confirms for me that this model doesn't work: because in her case you indeed ignore the fact that there is a complete 'bifurcation'... and then the lowest left is a inaccurate representation for what is really seen in her fingerprint)


PS For the same reason I have described earlier tonight a problem in Wilder's illustration example b. Sorry that I didn't respond: I agreed with your first sentence about what you described about figure b... but then you jumped to thoughts that relate to other books, etc. So I felt that you did not really answer my question regarding the little dot in figure b.

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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:04 am

Thank you for your thoughts.

The lower left example is like Kiwi's in the sense that Kiwi has a triangular triradius of 3 ridges meeting at the corners. The distal corner has merged. The other two corners, the marginal and the proximal are in the form of pairs of diverging ridges.
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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:09 am

The bifurcation in Kiwi's fingerprint is disqualified as it has two lower ridges with an angle of less than 90 degrees (unless you use your deceptive method of bending your lines down to the true location of the radiants)
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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:15 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:You are also incorrect about the FBI. The triangular plot is all over the place in the figures. Including the first one with the 2 fields and the lake.

They explain you must get this concept of the delta or you'll mess up.

You're still messing up.

lol

Hi Patti,

I think nowhere in the F.B.I. is any comment made about any 'triangular' shape in the ridges. So the examples where there is any such shape seen... they allows simply follow the path of the rules (+ the principles related to the river delta) - which are unrelated to any 'triangular' shape at all.

But agian, also in the work of Schaumann & Alter the concept of the 'triangular plot' is not seen at all.

And you should really not underestimate the fact that in Cummins & Midlo the concept of the 'triangular plot' is only described in the perspective of Galton's theory, and on page 58 they describe in their comments about the definition that in the (practical) usage they do not discriminate the 'triangular plot' from your 'star-triangle':

"In the usage here adopted no discrimination is made between these two main forms of structural organization. Since a triradius is present even when there is no true delta, the term triradius is used througout this work."

Therefore formally one should better not speak about just 2 'different' types of triradii - because none of the books have made such a recommendation.


I think it makes sense if we continue in our discussion to use the label 'triangular triradius', but I am not going to adopt your suggestion of a 'star-triradius'... because that sounds to me quite like describing a... 'round ball'.

I hope you understand.


Schaumann & Alter describe this triangular shape on page 34 regarding Fig. D, E & F.

The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Schaum10

Patti, in the underlined comment Schaumann & Alter are clearly referring to figure 3.5 E + F... and in both examples there is no 'triangular plot'!

And there is no 'triangular shape' in figure 3.5 D either.


(Your choice suggests that you associate the word 'triangular shape'... with a 'triradial area', which you called a 'triradial shape' ... but both are not the same at all.)

Cummins & Midlo, Schaumann & Alter, Penrose, Wilder, Wentworth, Galton and the FBI all describe a triangular shape in the triradial area. You are the only one who can't see it (or doesn't want to see it). Loesch could see it but chose not to work with it for her specialized purposes.
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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:48 am

The FBI's bifurcation has an angle of about 25 degrees.

The FBI's diverging ridges, diverge at an angle about 56 degrees.

Diverging ridges are at the corners, of 3 ridge fields meeting, at angles of 120 degrees. The inside measurement of these corners, if equilateral, is 60 degrees.

The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Fig01510

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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:11 am

2000 Research:

Dermatoglyphic Analysis of Total Finger Ridge Count in Female Monozygotic Twins Discordant for Sexual Orientation.

Dermatoglyphics

Fingerprints were taken of the right and left hands of all of the twins according to the techniques described by Hauser (1990) and the American Dermatoglyphics Association (ADA Ada, city, United States
Ada (ā`ə), city (1990 pop. 15,820), seat of Pontotoc co., S central Okla.; inc. 1904. It is a large cattle market and the center of a rich oil and ranch area. : 1990). A ridge count was ascertained for all fingers following the procedures described by Cummins and Midlo (1943) and the ADA (1990). Finger ridge count is determined by drawing a line from the triradius (a point at which ridges come together forming a triangular configuration) through the center of the finger print pattern and counting each ridge which crosses the line. Total finger ridge count is determined for each hand separately by adding the ridge counts for each finger. Ridge counting is an objective procedure, but it is tedious and counter error can occur. To verify counts, all subjects were counted twice by the investigator, at different times. About one quarter of the subjects were randomly recounted a third time, and a random sample of ten subjects were counted by a graduate student instructed by the investigator. Counts which were off by more than 2 ridges were recounted again until agreement was made. This only happened in a few cases in which it was difficult to determine whether some marks constituted a ridge or cracked skin.
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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:20 am

Look up: Triradius

triradius
Type: Term

Pronunciation: trī-rā′dē-ŭs

Definitions:
1. In dermatoglyphics, the figure at the base of each finger in the palm, produced by rows of papillae running in three directions so as to form a triangle.

Synonyms: Galton delta2

Stedman's Medical Dictionary. Copyright © 2006 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins. All rights reserved.





Medical Term:
Galton delta
Pronunciation: gahl′tŏn

Definition: a more or less well-marked triangle, in a fingerprint, on either side where the straight ridges near the joint of the distal phalanx are succeeded by arches, loops, or whorls;

Synonym(s): triradius

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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:35 am

I just came across a great quote in a Cummins & Midlo book!

"As an expedient of brevity, the terms (hand and foot, palm and sole, palmar and plantar,) are used without regard to objections which might be made by terminological purists."

Replace the words in parenthesis with "delta, triradius, bifurcation"

rolling on the floor

They were all geeks then too!
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Post  Patti on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:49 am

Cummins & Midlo "Palmar & Plantar Dermatoglyphics in Primates"


The TRIRADIUS in a fingerprint: how it develops, it's characteristics + a definition! - Page 11 Trirad17
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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:21 pm

Patti wrote:The bifurcation in Kiwi's fingerprint is disqualified as it has two lower ridges with an angle of less than 90 degrees (unless you use your deceptive method of bending your lines down to the true location of the radiants)

Patti, what you call a 'deceptive method'... is formally what Penrose told us to do: measuring the angle between the radiants. And the radiants do not stop at 1 mm from the bifurcation!

So formally, Kiwihands' bifurcation has all typical charteristics of a 'triradius' - except for that two of the radiants start with a angle a bit smaller than 90 degrees, but the angle becomes wider as their path continues.... and that is really THE essential of a triradius... because this is how the 'confluence' of three ridge systems typically is created.


Therefore I say:

Kiwihand has an almost perfect triradius... and this issue with the angle relates to what Loesch described in her work about the difference between the theory and reality:

"The triradius... (in pratice, however, singularities in the lines of greatests curvature on a surface may produce unsymmetrical triradii so that the angles between the radiants may not be equal)."

So, I think it is reasonable to say that we should solely focuss on the 'direction' of the radiants within the full 'triradial zone'; because one could never speak about unsymmetrical triradii if one focusses just on a zone 1 mm outside the triradial point.

And none of the books have made any suggestion that regarding the angles we should focuss on just a small part of the 'triradial area'!


MY CONCLUSION:

Kiwihands has a normal triradius, with a 'triradial point' located in the center of the bifurcation.

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