Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:58 am

Patti wrote:Martijn, don't include me! There is plenty of 'published' material available with keywords associating the little finger with the 'inner self' (or equivalent terminology) such as this from Charlotte Wolff:

Thanks Patti, but can you please specify what you have in mind... which key-word for the pinky has Wolff presented that we can connect with the inner world?

(I think Wolff's most descriptions here are made in the perspective of sexuality... which relates to the outer world)

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:04 am

subconscious and passive

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:06 am

made in the perspective of sexuality... which relates to the outer world

Not in my world? Which one are you on?

**Lynn** Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:06 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Lynn wrote:...

because Dukes described that each aspect of the hand possesses an inner and an outer aspect... and additionally he has also described in the chapter 'The fingers' (p. 80) how for the fingers the dorsal side relate to 'public' and the palmar side of the fingers relates to 'private' - so this could implicate that Dukes described how the dorsal side of the hand to 'outer world' and the inner side of the hand to 'inner world'!!)
Yes, correct that Dukes said that and I agree with it.

...

Lynn, if we combine both elements presented by Dukes in the quote above... then one could say that Dukes sort of has described how every aspect of the hand has an 'inner' (represented by the palmar side) and an 'outer' (represented by the dorsal side).

But if you accept this as the starting point of the elemental system... then I think it becomes troublesome when one also adopts any view regarding radial- and ulnar side, simply because by principle this creates a contradiction regarding that starting point!

OK, just stop for a moment. Who said that this is a "starting point" ?
Yes it is the first thing we might notice about people's hands when we're walking down the street, but it is not a starting point for the 5-element system!

Martijn (admin) wrote:Are you able to visualize what I am saying here?

(Let me explain... if you would put a thin layer of yellow paint on the palmar side of the hand + a thin layer of blue paint on the dorsal side of the hand... and then do the same for in respective the radial side [palmar radial side + dorsal radial side] and the ulnar side of the hand [palmar ulnar side + dorsal ulnar side]... then some parts of the hand would become GREEN - which represent the zones where the contradiction becomes manifest! Does this make sense?)

OK please stop again for a moment.
Earth = yellow, fire = red, water = blue, air = white.
If you colour each part of the hand accordingly, then the hand is probably mostly coloured brown, with maybe some green, purple, pale blue, pink, orange, turquoise,....etc.... It is all a reflection of all elements viewed in different ways. It is not a contradiction, it is the combination of the elements.

Martijn (admin) wrote:Then Lynn, I also would like to point out the following:

I understand your theory regarding the thumb as an 'integrator' as a starting point.

However, with this starting point I think one can still apply the inner vs outer them on the other four fingers. Then, if you associate communication with air... it would make sense to associate the pinky + the palmar air quadrant with the outer world - because these represent the air zones of the hand and communication is by principle a matter that directly relates to the outer world!!!

but what are we communicating in this area? it includes eg. relationships, sex, intimacy, the start of the heartline - our innermost and childhood emotional experiences, the passion line, the relationship lines - do most people make this kind of thing public knowledge? do we wear it on our sleeves and show it to the outer world? Or is it a more private (inner) thing for most people? (edit) also the healing lines/medical stigmata, the lines under apollo mount relating to our passions for artistic & self expression - is this 'inner' or 'outer'?(/edit)

Martijn (admin) wrote:And in this perspective, it would not make sense to associate the ulnar side of the hand with the inner world... because in the perspective of your starting point regarding thumb, you would have to specify that to that all four fingers + the palm sort of represent the inner world... so then you would not be speaking of the ulnar side, you are then speaking about the full hand except for the thumb!

Are you able to visualize what I am saying here?

hmmm, sorry I'm a bit confused what you are saying here. But I think you are basing it on some assumptions that I do not share.

Martijn (admin) wrote:NOTICE: Patti & I have searched for key-worlds in the hand analysis literature that associate the pinky with the inner world (because the classic key-words associated with the pinky finger - e.g. communication, relationships, intimacy - all appear to relate to the outer world).

But so far it appears that Patti & I could not identify any CLASSIC 'inner world' key-words that have been associated in the hand reading literature with the pinky finger. Maybe you are able to name one 'inner world' key-word that relates to the pinky? Or the archetype of mercurius?[/color]

Sorry, having been away I am not fully up to date with this discussion, but I notice Patti says "Don't include me" in her reply. I think I have mentioned in my last paragraph why the pinky might relate more to our inner (private) than outer (public) world.

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:16 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Thanks Patti, but can you please specify what you have in mind... which key-word for the pinky has Wolff presented that we can connect with the inner world?

(I think Wolff's most descriptions here are made in the perspective of sexuality... which relates to the outer world)

I just recalled my visit to Amsterdam and the tour bus trip through the red light district many years ago....so maybe it's a cultural viewpoint....this sexuality is an outer world thing?

**Lynn** Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:28 am

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Thanks Patti, but can you please specify what you have in mind... which key-word for the pinky has Wolff presented that we can connect with the inner world?

(I think Wolff's most descriptions here are made in the perspective of sexuality... which relates to the outer world)

I just recalled my visit to Amsterdam and the tour bus trip through the red light district many years ago....so maybe it's a cultural viewpoint....this sexuality is an outer world thing?

Patti we were posting at the same time. Your comment kinda backs up what I said about

do most people make this kind of thing public knowledge? do we wear it on our sleeves and show it to the outer world? Or is it a more private (inner) thing for most people?

If I were to be so bold as to say "OK then Martijn, if it's an outer world thing, tell us about your sex life", I would completely understand if you replied "oh no, that's private". Laughing

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:30 am

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Thanks Patti, but can you please specify what you have in mind... which key-word for the pinky has Wolff presented that we can connect with the inner world?

(I think Wolff's most descriptions here are made in the perspective of sexuality... which relates to the outer world)

I just recalled my visit to Amsterdam and the tour bus trip through the red light district many years ago....so maybe it's a cultural viewpoint....this sexuality is an outer world thing?

... Wikipedia starts describing 'human sexuality' as:

"Human sexuality is the capacity to have erotic experiences and responses. Human sexuality can also refer to the way someone is sexually attracted to another person... "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexuality

Patti, your association with Amsterdam is a perfect illustration of that people tend to 'go out' to get it... or give it away, etc.

(Religeous books usually tell people first to get married... before getting involved, etc.)

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:33 am

I received Holtzman's new book a few days ago and just today had some time to look at it from the beginning. Interestingly I see he has used a circular form showing shading from dark to light for the varying degrees of physicality over mentality, or the reverse. I haven't read the details but glancing at the illustrations, that concept is exactly what I've been describing in regards to the multi-dimensional, multi-directional spectrum. And illustrates that you should not attempt to draw a line, (lines/boxes) somewhere across the hand, that works across the board for every hand type. happy move

and

for Holtzman!

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:36 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Thanks Patti, but can you please specify what you have in mind... which key-word for the pinky has Wolff presented that we can connect with the inner world?

(I think Wolff's most descriptions here are made in the perspective of sexuality... which relates to the outer world)

I just recalled my visit to Amsterdam and the tour bus trip through the red light district many years ago....so maybe it's a cultural viewpoint....this sexuality is an outer world thing?

... Wikipedia starts describing 'human sexuality' as:

"Human sexuality is the capacity to have erotic experiences and responses. Human sexuality can also refer to the way someone is sexually attracted to another person... "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexuality

Patti, your association with Amsterdam is a perfect illustration of that people tend to 'go out' to get it... or give it away, etc.

(Religeous books usually tell people first to get married... before getting involved, etc.)

Yes, I understand what you are saying. The opposite side of the same spectrum is the level of intimacy that leads to the feeling of oneness. (i.e. there is no 'other') This is the other side of the same coin.

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:43 am

Lynn wrote:
If I were to be so bold as to say "OK then Martijn, if it's an outer world thing, tell us about your sex life", I would completely understand if you replied "oh no, that's private".

... That's only an illustration for how people communicate about sexuality!

(Of course, while human population evolved in time... one could argue that fantasy became more and more an element of sexuality; and though the urge comes from inside, without the interaction (with or via the body) there is probably no 'true' sexuality at all)

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:49 am

Lynn wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
[color=darkred] ... Wikipedia starts describing 'human sexuality' as:

"Human sexuality is the capacity to have erotic experiences and responses. Human sexuality can also refer to the way someone is sexually attracted to another person... "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexuality

and where are these experiences and responses happening? I suggest that (even if it involves sexual act with another person) it is being experienced by the inner person.

Well, in the perspective of palmistry one could argue that the inner urge (sexual desire) more relates to the thenar (mount of venus)... and the pinky is required to get the sexual experience/response.

PS. Maybe you missed my earlier postings where I have described (with some references to Wikipedia) that 'intimacy' requires 4 elements that all relate to interaction with another person?:

https://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t2419p120-the-thumb-represents-the-inner-essence-of-man#25731

"Genuine intimacy in human relationships requires dialogue, transparency, vulnerability, and reciprocity"

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:41 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Lynn wrote:
If I were to be so bold as to say "OK then Martijn, if it's an outer world thing, tell us about your sex life", I would completely understand if you replied "oh no, that's private".

... That's only an illustration for how people communicate about sexuality!

(Of course, while human population evolved in time... one could argue that fantasy became more and more an element of sexuality; and though the urge comes from inside, without the interaction (with or via the body) there is probably no 'true' sexuality at all)

Yes, it's all about the inner self wanting to reach out. The body is the vehicle to do this. The intangible, indivisible inner self is (which some seem to think is out of self Wink

) wanting to express itself. The entire hand is about communicating to the world.

**Lynn** Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:01 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Lynn wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
[color=darkred] ... Wikipedia starts describing 'human sexuality' as:

"Human sexuality is the capacity to have erotic experiences and responses. Human sexuality can also refer to the way someone is sexually attracted to another person... "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sexuality

and where are these experiences and responses happening? I suggest that (even if it involves sexual act with another person) it is being experienced by the inner person.

Well, in the perspective of palmistry one could argue that the inner urge (sexual desire) more relates to the thenar (mount of venus)... and the pinky is required to get the sexual experience/response.

PS. Maybe you missed my earlier postings where I have described (with some references to Wikipedia) that 'intimacy' requires 4 elements that all relate to interaction with another person?:

https://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t2419p120-the-thumb-represents-the-inner-essence-of-man#25731

"Genuine intimacy in human relationships requires dialogue, transparency, vulnerability, and reciprocity"

Oops I was going to quote myself and mindlessly accidentally deleted my post that Martijn quoted above. I said " it is being experienced by the inner person.", but of course that's true for ALL our experiences! Laughing

Yes Martijn, I had skipped thru a few posts without reading them properly.

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:06 pm

Patti & Lynn, I think it's a bit funny how your arguments give the impression that you associate any aspect of sexuality with thy pinky finger; but I don't think that your arguments are representative for how the pinky is associated with sexuality in the field of hand reading.

I'll give you a few clear examples from the hand reading literature to substantiate my earlier comments that the pinky only relates to sexuality regarding how it is expressed/shared with the outer world:

- In Ed Campbell's first book that libido & the sexual organs are actually linked with the thenar (mount of venus)... and not with the pinky (only relationships, intimacy + the act/expression of sex is associated with the pinky).

So, the physical desires are associated with the thenar, which explains why Venus - which is often described as the Goddes of love!

- Jenniffer Hirsch associates the long pinky finger with sexual seductiveness (p.54) which obviously relates to communication. And on page137 she writes:

"Size, forms and markings of air fingers govern aspects of people's sexuality, as well as their style of communication. A radial loop on an air finger highlights sexual expression in some way..."

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 7 Author_1

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 7 Author_1

- Nathaniel Altman writes in his book "Sexual palmistry" for the pinky finger:

"Mercury was the messenger of the gods. For this reason, the little of Mercury finger rules the ability to communicate with others, both in public as well as in intimate relationships."

And for the mount of Mercury Altman writes:

"Like a long, well-developed Mercury finger, a good mount increases our capacity to relate well to our partner on verbal, emotional and sexual levels. A small, flat Mercury mount (especially when accompanied by a short finger) may hinder our ability to communicate with others on a one-to-one basis, especially in the context of an affective relationship."

He also writes for the mount of Venus:

"Named after the goddess of love, the mount of Venus is the primary indicator of love, passion and sex drive in the hand. It speaks of vitality, the capacity for friendship and the ability to love."

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 7 201

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 7 201

- And I could also add quotes from the work of Ghanshyiam Singh Birla (in his book "Love in the palm of your hand" he associates Venus with 'physical & sexual health, sensuality and sense of beauty', while Mercury 'relates to the involvement in the world, and our 'ability to detach from the fruits of our actions').

thinking

So, I think what I have described regarding the pinky finger relating to the 'outer' aspects of sexuality is fully suppported by the works of Hirsch, Campbell, Altman & Birla... who all represent different currents in the fields of hand reading!!!!

Again, it only makes sense to associate the pinky with sexuality regarding the aspect of expression and interaction... which is a matter of communication!

But the 'sexual desire' itself is associated with the thenar, because next to the desire for food is the sex-drive known as an important aspect to maintain vitality - in the sense that it is recognized as a stress reductor resulting in various health related benefits: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_intercourse#Benefits

I hope my earlier comments now make more sense to you? Smile

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:26 pm

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 7 IStock_000014772356XSmall

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 7 Teams

One could describe the hand through the archetype of Helios depicted on a chariot with 4 horses (the picture with chariot-horses above represents the right- and the left hand).

For the hand one can say that Helios is represented by the thumb, the four horses represent the four fingers, and the chariot represents the palm.

And regarding the parts of the thumb (Helios) one can say that 'reason' and 'will' are the necessary tools to rule/control/manage/navigate the palm (= chariot) + the four fingers (= four horses).

(And the four wheels of the chariot can be associated with the 4 quadrants of the palm, etc.)

I think this fits quite perfectly with the many anologies in the field of hand reading suggesting that the thumb represents the I, psyche, self, soul, spirit, etc.... which can be recognized to relate to the inner 'core' of our identity.

And then the fingers are represented as 4 fragmented parts of our identify... that get projected into the outer world.

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 7 Thumb-11

PS. I propose this as a alternative variant of Plato's representation of the trinity that characterises the human soul: depicted as a horsemen representing 'reason', who controls two horses representing 'desire' (the black horse, representing the lower self) and 'will' (the white horse, representing the higher self).

NOTICE: Plato's analogy for the sould can also very well be used to describe the 3 parts of the thumb: desire/feeling [Plato's epithumia], thinking/reason [Plato's nous], willing/perseverance [Plato's thumos]!

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 7 Tumblr_mh1gc3MLiP1r7b4bjo1_1280

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 7 Tumblr_mh1gc3MLiP1r7b4bjo1_1280

Finally, from an anatomic point of view one can observe that the fingers represent the most distally positioned parts of the hand from the body (the thumb is located more proximal to the body); and therefore one can also use this observation as a symbolic explanation for how the thumb can be recognized to relate to the inner world, while the fingers are more reaching out to the outer world.

And... on top of the above observation one can also observe that the 'opposing' function of the thumb also represent the 'controlling' (more inward directed) function of the thumb towards the (individual) fingers.

Both observations can be used as anatomic support for this symbolic representation of human identity through the hand (based on common tendencies described in the field hand reading).

king

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 7 H9991444_002_pi

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:49 pm

I find it a bit amusing that there seems to be a need to describe the little finger by philosophical stories. Which came first the philosophy or the finger? Did the finger arrive labeled as a product of Mercury? Mercury is a symbol and here it is being applied to the hand in an ideological and philosophical way. This is about the same as looking for other symbol configurations in the hand and giving them an allegorical meaning. This is what modern handreading is moving away from instead of reviving yet another medieval renaissance of palmistry. And, frankly Martijn, you were the last person that I would have described as doing such a thing.

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:02 pm

Patti wrote:I find it a bit amusing that there seems to be a need to describe the little finger by philosophical stories. Which came first the philosophy or the finger? Did the finger arrive labeled as a product of Mercury? Mercury is a symbol and here it is being applied to the hand in an ideological and philosophical way. This is about the same as looking for other symbol configurations in the hand and giving them an allegorical meaning. This is what modern handreading is moving away from instead of reviving yet another medieval renaissance of palmistry. And, frankly Martijn, you were the last person that I would have described as doing such a thing.

Patti, I am not aware that I have associated the pinky finger in specific with (what you call) 'philosophical stories'. Please specify where you think I have made such a connections.

Regarding the pinky finger in specific, I think I have so far only refered to various passages and key-words from the hand reading literature (where the words 'Mercury' and 'Mercurius' are being used as synonyms for a reference to the archetypes associated with the pinky finger).

... scratch

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:06 pm

Christopher if you are still reading this, your lesson in the past about 'nothing means anything' was a remarkable aspect in my getting past the limitation of meanings into the greater dimension of reading hands. Here in this thread we're seeing for ourselves the process of how these meanings get arbitrarily applied.

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:10 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:I find it a bit amusing that there seems to be a need to describe the little finger by philosophical stories. Which came first the philosophy or the finger? Did the finger arrive labeled as a product of Mercury? Mercury is a symbol and here it is being applied to the hand in an ideological and philosophical way. This is about the same as looking for other symbol configurations in the hand and giving them an allegorical meaning. This is what modern handreading is moving away from instead of reviving yet another medieval renaissance of palmistry. And, frankly Martijn, you were the last person that I would have described as doing such a thing.

Patti, I am not aware that I have associated the pinky finger in specific with (what you call) 'philosophical stories'. Please specify where you think I have made such a connections.

Regarding the pinky finger in specific, I think I have so far only refered to various passages and key-words from the hand reading literature (where the words 'Mercury' and 'Mercurius' are being used as synonyms for a reference to the archetypes associated with the pinky finger).

...

Nearly everything you've written in this thread is related to philosophical and allegorical associations. Someone else's or your own opinion. Book definitions rather than personal experience or test results.

<edit> I'd go even further to say that the subject title sort of gives away your position from the start. "The thumb represents the inner essence of man" You have given the 'power' of the inner essence of man to the thumb. Whereas, saying "The inner essence of man is represented in the thumb" would show that experiences relating to the inner essence of man are discernible by studying aspects of the thumb in relationship to the rest of the hand and body.

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:35 pm

Patti wrote:
Nearly everything you've written in this thread is related to philosophical and allegorical associations. Someone else's or your own opinion. Book definitions rather than personal experience or test results.

Patti, again, I have described in my first message that I started this topic with the purpose to create a summary of the (consistent) trends in the hand reading literature.

Regarding this objective I consider my own experiences as irrelevant... because my objective is here focussed on the literature!

PS. By the way, beyond the purpose that I have described, in my first message I have also described how my recent 'test results' - related to the Big Five dimension Extraversion - confirm some of the trends seen in the literature, as depicted in my picture. I have shared this info because I think the study creates a new point of reference - based on systematic measurements & assessment of various parts of the hand!)

However, I can confirm that my 'test results' do not present any guidance regarding the pinky finger in specific, but again... I have expressed that my objective was to present a summary of some (consistent) trends in the literature.

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:04 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:

<snip>
For this reason I have tried to create a value-free map of the hand (see picture above), describing the role of the thumb in the perspective of the full hand - without using any theological- nor any philosophical vocabulary.

<snip>

[One can perceive this as a proposition of mine for the use of a neutral vocabulary - free from theological-, philosophical- and/or religeous preassumptions]

The above implicates that in a neutral vocabulary (not associated with a specific religion nor a specific philosophy) one might say that in the field of hand reading the thumb can be said to represent the 'core-identity' of a person.

<snip>

(I have found some new evidence that the thumb is more likely to represent the 'inner world'. In my latest research work on the psychological dimension Extraversion-Introversion there are two elements inside the results which suggest that a well developed thumb-side of the hand - read: high 2D:4D digit ratio & a high thenar:hypothenar ratio - tends to be found more often among introverts, who can be described as people who are sort of more oriented on their inner world than their outer world.)

Just a reminder of your initial proposal for this thread.

Perhaps it'd be a good idea to present how introversion and extroversion are related to the inner-outer, active-passive, and/or conscious-subconscious aspects of humans before you apply them to parts of the hand.

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:36 pm

Patti wrote:...

<edit> I'd go even further to say that the subject title sort of gives away your position from the start. "The thumb represents the inner essence of man" You have given the 'power' of the inner essence of man to the thumb. Whereas, saying "The inner essence of man is represented in the thumb" would show that experiences relating to the inner essence of man are discernible by studying aspects of the thumb in relationship to the rest of the hand and body.

Yes, the title of this thread is a reflection of the consistent findings that I have found in hand reading literature - which I have substantiated this with quotes from 3 different hand reading schools.

But I can add a fourth school... because Cheiro's system is often recognized as a system on it's own:

For example, even Cheiro refers to how the thumb is associated with the 'intellectual faculties', he wrote on page 47 in "The Language of the hand":

"The deduction to be made is, therefore, that the higher and better proportioned the thumb, the more the intellectual faculties rule, and vice versa."

NOTICE:

Patti, how can one deny that 'intellectual faculties' clearly relate to the inner world?

And if Cheiro's work has been recognized by many to represent a system on it's own... I could have presented it as a fourth 'school', because Cheiro also associates the pinky finger with (page 54) "the power to influence others"!!!

By the way, Cheiro also wrote on page 45 that most hand reading systems do not vary much regarding how the thumb is understood:

"... In India they have a variety of systems by which they read the hand, but here, again, they make the thumb the center of foundation, no matter what system they work out. The Chinese also believe in palmistry, and they, too, base their remarks on the position of the thumb itself. Again, it is an interesting fact to notice that even in Christianity the thumb has played an important role, the thumb representing God; the first finger Christ,the indicator of will of God, and the only finger on the hand that has, by virtue of its position, the power to point, or to stand upright independent of the rest; the second representing the Holy Ghost, as the attendant of the first. In the Greek churck the bishop alone gives the blessing by the thumb and first and second fingers, representing the Trinity; the ordinary priest has to use the whole hand. ..."

I perceive this description as indicative confirmation for my view that most hand reading systems appear to use most of the elements that I have presented in my picture.

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:48 pm

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:

<snip>
For this reason I have tried to create a value-free map of the hand (see picture above), describing the role of the thumb in the perspective of the full hand - without using any theological- nor any philosophical vocabulary.

<snip>

[One can perceive this as a proposition of mine for the use of a neutral vocabulary - free from theological-, philosophical- and/or religeous preassumptions]

The above implicates that in a neutral vocabulary (not associated with a specific religion nor a specific philosophy) one might say that in the field of hand reading the thumb can be said to represent the 'core-identity' of a person.

<snip>

(I have found some new evidence that the thumb is more likely to represent the 'inner world'. In my latest research work on the psychological dimension Extraversion-Introversion there are two elements inside the results which suggest that a well developed thumb-side of the hand - read: high 2D:4D digit ratio & a high thenar:hypothenar ratio - tends to be found more often among introverts, who can be described as people who are sort of more oriented on their inner world than their outer world.)

Just a reminder of your initial proposal for this thread.

Perhaps it'd be a good idea to present how introversion and extroversion are related to the inner-outer, active-passive, and/or conscious-subconscious aspects of humans before you apply them to parts of the hand.

Well, extraverts can be said to be inclinded to 'live' (= in terms of getting energy, vitality) their life via the outer world, while introverts are said to be inclined to 'live' their life much more via their inner world.

(During this discussion I became more aware that the use of the word 'subconscious' can best be described as not much more than psycho-bla-bla... because this word has no specified meaning at all in any perspective! And the words 'active' and 'passive' have no specified meaning either, those are rather abstact words as well... so one could wonder how anybody can ever 'test' any theory related to those words - in the field of hand reading both words usually tend to be associated with a long list of arbitrary associative polarities... but many authors have not even bothered to present any part of the list at all, which also indicates that it's likely just nothing more than 'psycho-bla-bla' as well)

Have I answered your question?

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:03 pm

I'm disappointed that your discussion boils down to selecting author's viewpoints that most match one's agenda. What motivated me to get involved in this discussion from the start was that it was presented in such a way as to be beyond viewpoints and opinions. Being published (self or otherwise) does not make a person an authority or their information accurate. Repeating something over and over doesn't make it a fact.

At times I thought you were actually playing devil's advocate with Lynn probing her to acknowledge what appeared like contradictions to you. Invalidating the very structure you were building your own system upon.

Speaking of structure - I like looking at the hand and body from this perspective....

http://www.mace.manchester.ac.uk/project/teaching/civil/structuralconcepts/Dynamics/exchange/exchange_con.php

Energy Exchange

Conservative systems: A system is said to be conservative if no energy is added or lost from the system during movement. This is an idealised system but one that can be used to aid the solution of many problems. In real structures internal friction forces will do work and damping will dissipate energy.

Conservation of energy means that the total energy at two different positions or at two different times is the same in a conservative system.

Conservation of momentum indicates that the momentum of a system is the same at two different times when the resulting external force is zero between those two times.

Energy can be transformed from one form to another, for instance, mechanical energy can be changed into electrical energy.

For a conservative system, the total energy is constant and a body once moved will continue to move or to vibrate. During motion there is a constant exchange between potential energy and kinetic energy.

For a non-conservative system, energy has to be added continuously to maintain motion..

We (humanity) are a non-conservative system.

Patti Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:14 pm

I'd also like to suggest that the hand is the machine, the mechanical device, a visible representation of the non-visible self.

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