Modern Hand Reading Forum - Discover the language of your hands: palm reading & palmistry forum!
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.
Your opinion & share...
Latest topics
» Fate Destiny Line -
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Sat Jan 01, 2022 3:21 pm by Stefania

» VIII - Palmistry books TOP 100 - listed by 'Amazon Sales Rank'!
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Wed Dec 29, 2021 10:34 am by Magda van Dijk-Rijneke

» Stewart Culin - Palmistry in China and Japan
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:53 am by Stijn

» Herbert Giles - Palmistry in China
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:20 am by Stijn

» life line forks
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:54 am by Stijn

» Astro-Palmistry files
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Sun May 30, 2021 1:17 pm by Stijn

» Nisha Ghai
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Wed May 05, 2021 5:10 pm by Martijn (admin)

» unique lines on Saturn mount
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:21 am by rashmi_rh

» Palm reading - 25/M right handed
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:48 am by andre123

» Relationship line?
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:13 pm by ketty

» Line from moon mount joining the fate line means
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:50 am by pravin kumar

» Vertical lines on Venus mount.
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:05 pm by pravin kumar

» Searching for professional case studies
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:42 pm by chindiaper

» Read my palm
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:04 am by jchenwing

» Please tell me about my career.
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Icon_minitime1Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:43 pm by pravin kumar

Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Who is online?
In total there are 16 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 16 Guests

None

[ View the whole list ]


Most users ever online was 302 on Tue Aug 17, 2021 3:06 pm
Moderators & partners

• Discover the Modern Hand Reading Forum partners:

Would you like to see your website listed?

Modern Hand Reading Forum Partners

Pointing finger: check this out!

Statistics
We have 5927 registered users
The newest registered user is steek

Our users have posted a total of 47446 messages in 4920 subjects
Top posting users this month
Stefania
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Voting17I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Voting19I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Voting18 

Top posting users this week
No user

Recommendations

• The FREE hand reading services at the Modern Hand Reading Forum are being continued in 2019 with the assistance of Google adsense!


Pointing finger: check this out!



Google+
MAJOR HAND READING SYNONYMS
Palmistry, Palm Reading, Hand Analysis, Chirology & Chiromancy.

Learn how to read hands according the Modern Hand Reading paradigm & you can use this forum as your palm reading guide!

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

+12
Manfred
guypalm
Sucom
anithapalm
knox gillespie
Kiran.Katawa
Christopher Jones
Parender
Lynn
RishiRahul
Patti
Martijn (admin)
16 posters

Page 16 of 43 Previous  1 ... 9 ... 15, 16, 17 ... 29 ... 43  Next

Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:06 pm

Lynn wrote:
Patti wrote:In your description, Lynn, you are adding two energies. The leaning fingers plus the position of the thumb. The held in thumb shows insecurity in and of itself. It's retreating inward. While the fingers are leaning outward. In this situation, the thumb base has failed in the radial section (under the index finger) and the index has nothing solid to stand up on. Still I would not interpret this as to introversion and extroversion.

I'm adding more than two really - the energy of all the fingers and the thumb! When all the fingers lean to radial, the thumb always has a narrow angle. Yes, it all shows insecurity. and yes the index has nothing solid to stand up on! So the sense of self in index has no solid foundation. The fingers are reaching out to the world for support. If you stood leaning forwards like that, you'd need propping up so that you didn't fall over!
that's the way I see it anyway.
As I've said before, I don't think I understand extraversion / introversion very well.

Ah, nice to see you finally talking about the leaning of the indivual fingers Lynn! Thumbs up!


PS. While you associate the narrow thumb angle with 'insecurity', Christopher actually describes thos people as: "these are more or less introverted people" (more details in my much longer reply earlier this evening)

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
Martijn (admin)
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5261
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:13 pm

Sucom wrote:Hi Patti Smile

Patti wrote:In your description, Lynn, you are adding two energies. The leaning fingers plus the position of the thumb. The held in thumb shows insecurity in and of itself. It's retreating inward. While the fingers are leaning outward. In this situation, the thumb base has failed in the radial section (under the index finger) and the index has nothing solid to stand up on. Still I would not interpret this as to introversion and extroversion.

Do leaning fingers automatically create a held in thumb? I'm not totally convinced because I have seen quite a few hands where this is not the case at all. True, it may create a narrower angle, but regarding retreating inward.....the thumb would have to be held particularly closely to the palm, even perhaps held 'inside' the palm to suggest such a retreat.

I do agree, however, that if the thumb does retreat into the palm, then the index finger truly would have nothing to stand on.
Sue

Hi Sue!

Yes I have seen them too, I just uploaded an example of what I was describing in an earlier post about the index sitting up on a pedestal.
Patti
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:17 pm

Patti wrote:I understand your thoughts on this Lynn.

The confusing aspects with introversion and extroversion is the mixing of temporary states of mind with personality types, in this discussion. I have seen radial leaning fingers with the thumb not pulled inwards. There are probably samples here in this forum. In this case the index often appears to be sitting on a pedestal.

Patti, have you so far included Duke's guidelines for leaning fingers op page 70 and 71?


(I think Dukes describes that by principle one should always consider the leaning of individual fngers seperately... and he describes 10 elements for a start that can be used. I don't think that there is much reason for confusion at all - unless one starts adopting principles for leaning fingers in general and use it combined with the elemental system without checking whether these actually are confirmed by the basics of the elemental system... after reading the details in Duke's work and Christopher's work, it appears that Johnny and Lynn have addopted a 'classic' principle that does not get confirmed by the principles used in elemental hand reading regarding the leaning of the individual fingers & the thumb. NOTICE: I have talked about more details in my long reply to Lynn earlier this evening)

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
Martijn (admin)
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5261
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Sucom Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:20 pm

Patti wrote:
Sucom wrote:Hi Patti Smile

Patti wrote:In your description, Lynn, you are adding two energies. The leaning fingers plus the position of the thumb. The held in thumb shows insecurity in and of itself. It's retreating inward. While the fingers are leaning outward. In this situation, the thumb base has failed in the radial section (under the index finger) and the index has nothing solid to stand up on. Still I would not interpret this as to introversion and extroversion.

Do leaning fingers automatically create a held in thumb? I'm not totally convinced because I have seen quite a few hands where this is not the case at all. True, it may create a narrower angle, but regarding retreating inward.....the thumb would have to be held particularly closely to the palm, even perhaps held 'inside' the palm to suggest such a retreat.

I do agree, however, that if the thumb does retreat into the palm, then the index finger truly would have nothing to stand on.
Sue

Hi Sue!

Yes I have seen them too, I just uploaded an example of what I was describing in an earlier post about the index sitting up on a pedestal.

Hi Patti Smile

Yes, I just saw them! Good job! applause
While speaking, I have to tell you that I have just started reading this topic through from the beginning and really like some of the things you wrote on the first page. Am in total agreement with you. Thumbs up!


Sucom

Posts : 79
Join date : 2010-07-25

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:47 pm

Sucom wrote:
Patti wrote:
Sucom wrote:Hi Patti Smile

Patti wrote:In your description, Lynn, you are adding two energies. The leaning fingers plus the position of the thumb. The held in thumb shows insecurity in and of itself. It's retreating inward. While the fingers are leaning outward. In this situation, the thumb base has failed in the radial section (under the index finger) and the index has nothing solid to stand up on. Still I would not interpret this as to introversion and extroversion.

Do leaning fingers automatically create a held in thumb? I'm not totally convinced because I have seen quite a few hands where this is not the case at all. True, it may create a narrower angle, but regarding retreating inward.....the thumb would have to be held particularly closely to the palm, even perhaps held 'inside' the palm to suggest such a retreat.

I do agree, however, that if the thumb does retreat into the palm, then the index finger truly would have nothing to stand on.
Sue

Hi Sue!

Yes I have seen them too, I just uploaded an example of what I was describing in an earlier post about the index sitting up on a pedestal.

Hi Patti Smile

Yes, I just saw them! Good job! applause
While speaking, I have to tell you that I have just started reading this topic through from the beginning and really like some of the things you wrote on the first page. Am in total agreement with you. Thumbs up!


Thank you Sue!! Thanks! (that was a lot of reading!!)

Here's another example:

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Schlag10
Patti
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:57 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:I understand your thoughts on this Lynn.

The confusing aspects with introversion and extroversion is the mixing of temporary states of mind with personality types, in this discussion. I have seen radial leaning fingers with the thumb not pulled inwards. There are probably samples here in this forum. In this case the index often appears to be sitting on a pedestal.

Patti, have you so far included Duke's guidelines for leaning fingers op page 70 and 71?


(I think Dukes describes that by principle one should always consider the leaning of individual fngers seperately... and he describes 10 elements for a start that can be used. I don't think that there is much reason for confusion at all - unless one starts adopting principles for leaning fingers in general and use it combined with the elemental system without checking whether these actually are confirmed by the basics of the elemental system... after reading the details in Duke's work and Christopher's work, it appears that Johnny and Lynn have addopted a 'classic' principle that does not get confirmed by the principles used in elemental hand reading regarding the leaning of the individual fingers & the thumb. NOTICE: I have talked about more details in my long reply to Lynn earlier this evening)

I don't think I have found anything 'new' in Duke's book that I have adapted into my work, but I'll take a look at those pages.

When it comes to individual fingers bending, there are only so many combinations of positions before a person is crossing the tips which isn't a normal relaxed hand position. (except for arthritic hands). Rarely do you see the Spock from Star Trek Vulcan greeting of middle and ring leaning away from each other, for example as a natural position.

Patti
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Sucom Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Hi Martijn
I'm only just starting to get to grips with this topic and have started reading from the first page. It's so long!!! It's going to take ages.

I have to take it one step at a time because there is so much information so please bear with me while I try to catch up.

First, I tend to agree with you about thinking, feeling and willing. This sounds very much like Greg Bradens views in that existence relates to thinking (the idea), feeling (the idea) and then ... this is where he is slightly different but on similar lines, creating or allowing the idea to manifest. However, this is similar to the thumb because palmistry tells us that we use the qualities of our thumb to shape our world. The difference I see here is that Greg Braden, and others, are telling us that it is the thought and the feeling which creates sufficient desire to allow the idea to manifest. This is slightly different from palmistry's idea that we, ourselves, as individuals and separate beings, create something ourselves. I don't actually think we are individual, separate beings; I believe we are all very connected, more than perhaps realised and I use the word connection as being connected to everything, not just what appears to be living beings. As Lynn mentioned early on in the discussion, the whole idea of every single thing, animate or inanimate having a consciousness is an idea I wholeheartedly go along with. Everything is living, the ground we stand on, the trees, the rocks, the air, the sky, everything.

What I struggle with, so far, is the idea that the ulna side of the palm is connected to the outer world. You mention that the air finger on the ulna side of the palm is related to communication and I agree with this, but .....your version of communication is slightly different from mine. Yes, it's true that in communicating we connect with other beings, but, and this is a big but, we don't necessarily need language to communicate. We can communicate through other means and just using my own experience as an example, communication can come through music. Music and sound is a language also but it doesn't have to involve others. Sound just 'is'. Sound waves are energy and energy surrounds us. We feel it, it permeates through everything that is. Sound energy can connect us to the tides, the sea, the wind blowing through the trees, harmony within the body, gravity, waves, feeling, heart beat...... so many things I could mention here and all of these things can relate to the individual or to the masses. Both inner and outer, I would say, because we are vibrating energy beings and so is the sound. It all vibrates and is all connected. We are energy and we are surrounded by energy. How can it relate 'only' to the outer world?

Another thing I'm not too sure about is making a chart which doesn't include, or doesn't appear to include traditional palmistry. Maybe you are trying to move away from traditional beliefs but I feel it is important to remember here that many, if not most of us, actually gained much of our knowledge through this medium. We know that life has existed for thousands of years whereas science and modern hand analysis is a great deal younger; still in its infancy you could perhaps say. What I'm trying to say is, is it right to use only those views taken from more modern sources. For example, you mention psychologists and make regular use of Johnny Fincham's terminology of the peacock finger and the mirror finger or ivory tower. If caution is not exercised, although these terms may indeed represent traditional palmistry interpretations to a varying degree, by using them alone, and forgetting previous terminology which is what actually brought us to this point, could possibly allow the basic, underlying message to be lost.

I would have to argue, would it be right to lose the original words? This would be like, for example, rewriting the bible based on one's own perception of the meaning of the original words. Yes, I know, this has already happened. This doesn't make it right though, does it?

All I'm seeing so far are elements and psychology and I find this worrying. What about the basics that brought us all to this point in our hand reading skills?

These are my initial thoughts from reading the first two pages of this topic, so do excuse me if I appear to be back tracking, but I would like to make my initial thoughts hear, nevertheless.

Sucom

Posts : 79
Join date : 2010-07-25

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:06 pm

Now here's an example (so much for lack of time - but excuse the long delays between posts, I'm multi-tasking)

Vulcan in one hand and crossed in the other.... schizzy Laughing

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Stay_110

Another with radial leaning fingers. Note in the left hand hand the middle finger tip is bending back to the ring while it leans to the thumb side.

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Ritter10
Patti
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:28 pm

Sucom wrote:

First, I tend to agree with you about thinking, feeling and willing. This sounds very much like Greg Bradens views in that existence relates to thinking (the idea), feeling (the idea) and then ... this is where he is slightly different but on similar lines, creating or allowing the idea to manifest. However, this is similar to the thumb because palmistry tells us that we use the qualities of our thumb to shape our world. The difference I see here is that Greg Braden, and others, are telling us that it is the thought and the feeling which creates sufficient desire to allow the idea to manifest. This is slightly different from palmistry's idea that we, ourselves, as individuals and separate beings, create something ourselves. I don't actually think we are individual, separate beings; I believe we are all very connected, more than perhaps realised and I use the word connection as being connected to everything, not just what appears to be living beings. As Lynn mentioned early on in the discussion, the whole idea of every single thing, animate or inanimate having a consciousness is an idea I wholeheartedly go along with. Everything is living, the ground we stand on, the trees, the rocks, the air, the sky, everything.

Sue, your post is well said. Agree that there is a form of 'living energy' in everything - it may not be what we know as biological life, but there is vital energy there none the less. I also agree we are all connected, and with the idea that feeling must be involved for manifestation of one's desires/ideas.

Patti
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:47 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:Arch = finger cast off from palm?

Very Happy Yep!

Enid Hoffman "Hands" pages 44-45 illustrates and describes a variety of cast off types.
Patti
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Sucom Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:00 pm

You're going to have to forgive me, I'm still only on page 4 of this topic and already I'm thinking scratch

So my next thoughts are:

Martijn, you said: "So, in return I could ask you... after making these references, how can one deny that the pinky is associated with the outer world???"


From where I’m standing right now, you haven’t yet referred to anything that convinces me that the pink is associated with the outer world, unless of course, we are defining the outer world in different ways. And I have a sneaking suspicion this could be the case.

You then said: "PS. One could argue that the 'visual' qualities related to the mount of moon (e.g. visual images, fantasy) also make a connection with the outer world."

While I’m reading this topic, I’m still in the early pages, I can’t help wondering if there is some misunderstanding about the concept of the inner world and outer world. I feel this needs defining a little more so that it is fully understood what is meant by inner and outer world. For example, Martijn, you said that visual images and fantasy also make a connection with the outer world. From my viewpoint, I would class visual images and fantasy as inner world because they ‘originate’ from the inner world. But even saying this, I do believe the inner and outer worlds are connected. You can’t have one without the other because the inner self thinks, then feels, and then creates which is viewed by the outer world. They are both intertwined. Not only this, I don’t believe something has to even manifest for it to exist because thinking and feeling create the possibility and this is as real as the physical manifestation; we just don’t see it but this doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. Thoughts are real things that exist and are sent out as possibiltiies.

I would like to have a clearer understanding of 'originates from' and 'connects to'. I feel this would help reduce misunderstanding of the terms 'inner' and 'outer'.

Forgive me if this misunderstanding has been cleared up later in the thread.

Sucom

Posts : 79
Join date : 2010-07-25

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Sucom Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:03 pm

Patti wrote:
Sucom wrote:

First, I tend to agree with you about thinking, feeling and willing. This sounds very much like Greg Bradens views in that existence relates to thinking (the idea), feeling (the idea) and then ... this is where he is slightly different but on similar lines, creating or allowing the idea to manifest. However, this is similar to the thumb because palmistry tells us that we use the qualities of our thumb to shape our world. The difference I see here is that Greg Braden, and others, are telling us that it is the thought and the feeling which creates sufficient desire to allow the idea to manifest. This is slightly different from palmistry's idea that we, ourselves, as individuals and separate beings, create something ourselves. I don't actually think we are individual, separate beings; I believe we are all very connected, more than perhaps realised and I use the word connection as being connected to everything, not just what appears to be living beings. As Lynn mentioned early on in the discussion, the whole idea of every single thing, animate or inanimate having a consciousness is an idea I wholeheartedly go along with. Everything is living, the ground we stand on, the trees, the rocks, the air, the sky, everything.

Sue, your post is well said. Agree that there is a form of 'living energy' in everything - it may not be what we know as biological life, but there is vital energy there none the less. I also agree we are all connected, and with the idea that feeling must be involved for manifestation of one's desires/ideas.


Patti, I agree with many of your thoughts in this thread. We appear to share very similar views and coming from a similar perspective.

Sucom

Posts : 79
Join date : 2010-07-25

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:05 pm

Sucom wrote:You're going to have to forgive me, I'm still only on page 4 of this topic and already I'm thinking scratch

So my next thoughts are:

Martijn, you said: "So, in return I could ask you... after making these references, how can one deny that the pinky is associated with the outer world???"
...
.

Hi Sue, yes... please read further because later we have discussed the details (we e.g. talked about the fundamentals behind the words 'communication' & 'intimacy', based on detailed definitions presented at Wikipedia; you'll find the details if you read further).

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
Martijn (admin)
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5261
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Sucom Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:35 pm

Lynn wrote:I have run out of suggestions. I think I've reached the end of my headline.
I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Get-smiley

I'm sorry, I'm going to go off topic but have to let Lynn know how this made me smile. Distracted me totally for a few minutes - hahaha Smile Love it!

Sucom

Posts : 79
Join date : 2010-07-25

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Sucom Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:44 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Lynn wrote:
Patti wrote:This illustration is from "Mudras" Gertrud Hirschi copied from the book Handlesen by G. Hurlimann (1996)

Another example of dividing the hand.

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 G_hurl10

Thanks very much for sharing this also. Thumbs up!

Lynn, I hope you noticed that the words 'surrounding world' associated with mars-positive in this map.



Ah, I found this interesting Martijn. Upper mars does indeed deal with resistance which, by definition, must be associated with the outer world in some way. But are we talking about resistance originating within and being transmitted to the outside world, perhaps as a reaction within to the outside world? Whatever goes on around a person in his external environment, any reaction he feels to this is purely his own and can only affect him at a personal level. In this way, anything that causes him to suffer from his own reaction is entirely a personal thing felt within. This would make him the creator of his own suffering. No-one else can suffer as a result of his own reaction, only him. For me, this is an inner world situation.

Sucom

Posts : 79
Join date : 2010-07-25

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Sucom Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:05 pm

Hi Martijn

For example, when a person uses the rethorics: 'everything is God'... this would raise the question: 'how to recognize God?' And one could also argue from a fundamental view that if 'everything is God'... this would implicate: the devil = God.

And therefore I think that the words 'everything is God' are likely to turn out to be recognized as (subjective) 'associative' nonsense.... because those words are likely not much more than a projection of the person's personal concept of God. After all, it's simply impossible to proof that 'everything is God'... even from a filosophical point of view!

I have to comment on this, even though it may be considered a little off topic. Have you ever heard of 'The language of the divine matrix' - Greg Braden? He certainly offers some interesting thoughts on this topic. I suppose some might call it 'subjective nonsense' but others may not! At the end of the day, we each have to follow our own truths.

By the way, while I might personally disagree with your comment above, there are various things you have put forward within this topic that I 'do' agree with.

Sucom

Posts : 79
Join date : 2010-07-25

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:18 pm

Sucom wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Lynn wrote:
Patti wrote:This illustration is from "Mudras" Gertrud Hirschi copied from the book Handlesen by G. Hurlimann (1996)

Another example of dividing the hand.

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 G_hurl10

Thanks very much for sharing this also. Thumbs up!

Lynn, I hope you noticed that the words 'surrounding world' associated with mars-positive in this map.



Ah, I found this interesting Martijn. Upper mars does indeed deal with resistance which, by definition, must be associated with the outer world in some way. But are we talking about resistance originating within and being transmitted to the outside world, perhaps as a reaction within to the outside world? Whatever goes on around a person in his external environment, any reaction he feels to this is purely his own and can only affect him at a personal level. In this way, anything that causes him to suffer from his own reaction is entirely a personal thing felt within. This would make him the creator of his own suffering. No-one else can suffer as a result of his own reaction, only him. For me, this is an inner world situation.

Sue, regarding the map: the words 'surrounding world', 'outer realm' and 'comminication' speak for themselves regarding the upper ulnar part of the hand - in Hürlimann's perspective.

(Regarding your assocation with the word 'resistance', I am not familiar with that word being associated with mars-positive... but I can inform you in advance that during this discussion we have hardly spent time discussing that specific palmar zone)

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
Martijn (admin)
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5261
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Lynn Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:32 pm

Sucom wrote:Just looking at this for a moment, my first thought here is ‘Why, if the fingers are considered a mental extension of the storehouses of energy below, would the index finger be water if it is sitting on a fire quadrant?. Or…. I could instead ask, why is the fire quadrant found below a water quality finger? I ask this in terms of the elemental system rather than any other system, because I didn’t study the elemental system in the way you did and have adopted a slightly different approach as a result.

The truth is Sue, I can’t remember everything we were taught about this! Briefly, basically …. The top two vertical divisions of the palm, based on the principle of graduated materiality, are fire and air, the active elements. Radial side is ‘outer’ and ulna side is ‘inner’. Air (basically the mind) is a more inner element so is on ulna side, fire (basically our actions) is more outwardly expressed so is on the radial.
Index is the water finger because (as you know) it is the finger of the self - self identity, self-esteem, our personal ideals, desires, what we want for ourselves etc. Water is subjective, personalises everything.

If you had asked it in terms of another system, I’m not sure I could give any answer Wink why is Jupiter above Mars?

Sucom wrote:I agree that if the index finger is leaning towards the radial, it is saying ‘me, me, me’. Regarding the outgoing personality with the widely spread fingers, I’m not sure that fingers would automatically be found close together if leaning towards the radial side of the palm. There is a possibility that the fingers could be wider apart, although admittedly, not as wide as they would otherwise be in straight fingers. So there could be ‘some’ independence here.

I’m talking about ones like on P 42 of Johnny’s book where typically Jupiter is prominenced and the other three stay close together & by the nature of the hand stance the thumb stays closer to the palm. If the fingers are wider apart then of course what I’ve said about leaning fingers would be modified by the widely separated little finger (or whatever).

Sucom wrote:“Also with radial leaning fingers, the thumb is held at a narrow angle so it's not like the assertion of eg a strong handed business person actively asserting their fire into the world, taking responsibility and creating change, it's more something they strive for but don't have the energy or motivation to do, hence rely on externals to do it for them.”

Regarding the narrow or narrower angle of the thumb as a result of the leaning fingers, couldn’t this suggest less flexibility, less openness, less desire to take in the needs of others and more desire to hang on to their own projection?
I agree that it may suggest some kind of insecurity. A narrow angle of the thumb suggests to me a less flexible way of looking at life, a more closed personality.

Yes that sounds fine by me, tho I think we’d need to look at flexibility of the thumb also. If it’s a bendy thumb that they’re holding in, they may be compensating for being too flexible and ‘victim of circumstance’ rather than taking control.

Sucom wrote:Also, you mentioned actively asserting their fire, and yet you describe the index finger in a ‘watery’ way. Are you saying there is likely to be a mix of fire and water here?
Obviously I can go with that idea because I believe the elements are very likely to be blended together in many areas of the hands. I don’t think it is possible to absolutely separate and divide them. This is perhaps one reason why I don’t hold on to just one or another hand reading approach. I have always tended to take something of each and blend them together to create my own version of possibilities.

I said it’s not like the (more fiery) person actively asserting their fire, because a reduced fire quadrant means you can’t do that. But yes, we are all a mixture of all the elements, as is everything around us and every part of the hand!


One other thing that comes to mind – how would you adapt your interpretation in a person who had leaning fingers but also a particularly strong thumb, a firm consistency and good colour in the hands? Would you still consider them to lack the energy or motivation? Would this person truly rely on externals?
I think something’s happened to make them rely more dependent than they normally are. If they have a strong thumb, firm consistency, good colour then why are the fingers leaning? E.g. Have they taken on too much and now suffering from ‘burn-out’? I’d have to figure it out in the reading by looking at the rest of the hand.

Sorry for all the questions but I enjoy a good discussion Smile
Sue
I do too, but this one's been hard work! Wink (25 pages so far!!) Sorry I've only given brief answers off the top of my head.

___________________________________________
Lynn
www.handanalysis.co.uk
Lynn
Lynn

Posts : 2460
Join date : 2010-07-24
Location : Devon, England

http://www.handanalysis.co.uk

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:55 pm

Sucom wrote:Hi Martijn
I'm only just starting to get to grips with this topic and have started reading from the first page. It's so long!!! It's going to take ages.

I have to take it one step at a time because there is so much information so please bear with me while I try to catch up.

First, I tend to agree with you about thinking, feeling and willing. This sounds very much like Greg Bradens views in that existence relates to thinking (the idea), feeling (the idea) and then ... this is where he is slightly different but on similar lines, creating or allowing the idea to manifest. However, this is similar to the thumb because palmistry tells us that we use the qualities of our thumb to shape our world. The difference I see here is that Greg Braden, and others, are telling us that it is the thought and the feeling which creates sufficient desire to allow the idea to manifest. This is slightly different from palmistry's idea that we, ourselves, as individuals and separate beings, create something ourselves. I don't actually think we are individual, separate beings; I believe we are all very connected, more than perhaps realised and I use the word connection as being connected to everything, not just what appears to be living beings. As Lynn mentioned early on in the discussion, the whole idea of every single thing, animate or inanimate having a consciousness is an idea I wholeheartedly go along with. Everything is living, the ground we stand on, the trees, the rocks, the air, the sky, everything.

What I struggle with, so far, is the idea that the ulna side of the palm is connected to the outer world. You mention that the air finger on the ulna side of the palm is related to communication and I agree with this, but .....your version of communication is slightly different from mine. Yes, it's true that in communicating we connect with other beings, but, and this is a big but, we don't necessarily need language to communicate. We can communicate through other means and just using my own experience as an example, communication can come through music. Music and sound is a language also but it doesn't have to involve others. Sound just 'is'. Sound waves are energy and energy surrounds us. We feel it, it permeates through everything that is. Sound energy can connect us to the tides, the sea, the wind blowing through the trees, harmony within the body, gravity, waves, feeling, heart beat...... so many things I could mention here and all of these things can relate to the individual or to the masses. Both inner and outer, I would say, because we are vibrating energy beings and so is the sound. It all vibrates and is all connected. We are energy and we are surrounded by energy. How can it relate 'only' to the outer world?

Another thing I'm not too sure about is making a chart which doesn't include, or doesn't appear to include traditional palmistry. Maybe you are trying to move away from traditional beliefs but I feel it is important to remember here that many, if not most of us, actually gained much of our knowledge through this medium. We know that life has existed for thousands of years whereas science and modern hand analysis is a great deal younger; still in its infancy you could perhaps say. What I'm trying to say is, is it right to use only those views taken from more modern sources. For example, you mention psychologists and make regular use of Johnny Fincham's terminology of the peacock finger and the mirror finger or ivory tower. If caution is not exercised, although these terms may indeed represent traditional palmistry interpretations to a varying degree, by using them alone, and forgetting previous terminology which is what actually brought us to this point, could possibly allow the basic, underlying message to be lost.

I would have to argue, would it be right to lose the original words? This would be like, for example, rewriting the bible based on one's own perception of the meaning of the original words. Yes, I know, this has already happened. This doesn't make it right though, does it?

All I'm seeing so far are elements and psychology and I find this worrying. What about the basics that brought us all to this point in our hand reading skills?

These are my initial thoughts from reading the first two pages of this topic, so do excuse me if I appear to be back tracking, but I would like to make my initial thoughts hear, nevertheless.

Hi Sue, some quick responses (to your interesting input Thumbs up! )

- but first I want you to know that my major objective in this topic is to discuss the key-words in the hand reading literature; and in this perspective I don't want to spent too much time on personal associations when these are not directly connected with the major key-words in the hand reading books - I hope you understand this in the perspective of the charts that I have presented- NOTICE: in the latest 2 charts I have featured the names of hand readers with the key-words that I have selected!);

- I understand you association regarding the deeper purpose of music, but music does not belong to the core-definition of what communication is all about. By the way, in the field of hand reading music usually gets more associated with the ring finger (I am sure that you will recognize how music can also be recognized as an example of 'artistic-expression', and the spoken word relates more to communication than music does).

- Regarding your worries about 'classic palmistry' vs. 'modern palmistry', don't worry any book/method is welcome; actually, my latests charts also include some key-words used by Benham & Cheiro. I hope you recognize these names as representing 'traditional palmistry'? References to older authors are also very welcome... especially when they have used the 'key-words' that are featured in my latest chart!

- Please be aware, my objective is to get key-words featured in my chart that together create a consistent story for the full hand... but I think you already have understood this: thank you for your confirming (fundamental) feedback about the key-words 'thinking', 'feeling' and 'willing' (sorry, I am not familiar with Gregg Braden's work but spiritual topics can in generally always be seen from many perspectives) - but I can also reports that those 3 words already were replaced by more common used words (I present another copy of my latest picture below).

(Sue, I hope my feedback will encourage you to read further through this discussion... and feel free not to respond to this post!)

Thanks!


I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Thumb-21

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
Martijn (admin)
Martijn (admin)
Admin

Posts : 5261
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands

http://www.handresearch.com

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Lynn Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:10 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Lynn wrote:
I have made a fundamental mistake really in projecting & trying to translate C.Soc methods of quadrant analysis onto Johnny's hand map, because Johnny doesn't use quadrant analysis these days. So, I guess we really shouldn't be comparing the two methods. I only used it to try and understand Johnny's keywords in conjunction with leaning fingers.

Very Happy Glad that you now recognize your fundamental mistake, and thank you for acknowledging!

Interesting that you now describe that you have been 'projecting', but that was not what I described... nor suggested. I only described that you used two different methods as if there are two different systems, but I think before this discussion you perceived Johnny's books as representative for the elemental system that you were both taught .

I didn't mean that "I" was projecting (my own stuff) tho obviously I am speaking from my own point of view. What I meant was - I made a mistake in trying to project Johnny's new keywords onto Dukes' old system. I actually only did it in order to try and answer your question, something about "do Johnny's words make sense" - and as Johnny's words included quadrants I brought it into my reply.
I really wish I hadn't even tried to answer your question, because it has resulted in all this discussion and questions about leaning fingers and quadrants! I wish I'd just said "no" Razz

However, Lynn, yesterday you stated that this discussion has hardly changed anything in your perceptions. But now you are sometimes talking as if Johnny presents a completely different system!

I'm not saying it's a completely different system, but Johnny has some of his own approaches. I don't use all the stuff Johnny uses eg I don't call the fingers "the mirror, the wall" etc. A major part of Johnny's books are based on the principles of the elemental system, even if he uses different terminology. But he has also gone on to develop his own style and methods, as every student does 20 - 30 years after being taught something.


Martijn (admin) wrote:
Now, regarding your explanation why you associate ulnar leaning fingers with 'introversion'... I find it stricking that in your new attempt you only talk about the quadrants while this is basically actually concerns a matter of 5 individual leaning fingers!

(Correct?)

In my "new attempt" to answer your question, I only talked about the quadrants because you were asking me to be consistent and reply in terms of the quadrants. So I did.
This is what I was replying to.... you didn't ask anything about 5 fingers!
regarding Johnny's vocabulary you are using different 'reasoning' in order to explain that how the large 'Ivory Tower' explains the 'introverted' ulnar leaning fingers. For, regarding Johnny's guidelines you talk about the size of the quadrant.. while in your own perspective you basically only start talking about the vertical principle.

And I don't recognize how this change of perspective (quadrant approach vs vertical approach) can be recognized as consistent.

This appers to me as a rather 'opportune' style of reasoning, with an underlying inconsisency.

Because obviously, the large 'fire quadrant' implicates the opposite of a large 'Ivory Tower'....

Martijn (admin) wrote:[color=darkred]Lynn, I hope you allow me to direct your attention back to Dukes' work... because the issue of leaning fingers has been described by Dukes on page 70 + 71. And Dukes describes the basic principle regarding how to approach the topic of leaning fingers as follows:

"If a finger leans towards another, it reveals that the element seeks fulfillment through another element. In your interpretation you must combine the qualities of the two elements in order to describe that person's consciousness."

(Lynn, I hope allow me to describe this as 'principle no.1')

This first principle perfectly makes sense to me, and I think it concerns a principle that is commonly used in most hand reading systems.


Then Dukes describes on page 71 in the first picture another interesting principle, where 'wide spacing of all fingers' gets associated with 'extroverted, active temperament'; this also concerns a commonly adopted principle in the various fields of hand reading.

(Lynn, I hope you allow me for a moment to describe this as principle no.2)

However,... interestingly, I think this implicates for when the fingers are leaning towards each other this by principle is associated with 'introverted, passive temperament'. And Johnny described this more explicit in his books.

( Very Happy Correct?)

Now, I think that it makes sense to combine these (basic) principles 1 and 2 in order to find out how to interpretate the leaning of fingers - NOTICE: principle 2 is kind of the first specific example that Dukes describes... so it's importance should not be underestimated.
( Very Happy Correct?)

Now, regarding radial leaning fingers... I think this suggests a combination of: 'all leaning fingers towards each other' + earth leaning to water + fire leaning to earth + and air leaning to fire.

Let's take a look at how Dukes interpretates these individual aspects:

- all leaning fingers towards each other = introverted, passive temperament
- earth leaning to water = (... earth seeking fulfillment through water)
- fire leaning to earth = (...fire seeking fulfillment through earth)
- fire leaning to air = speech or communication is inhibited or cautious.

Lynn, it's hard for me to specify the 2nd and 3rd aspect any further (with writings from Dukes, Fincham & Jones)... but at first sight this doesn't look like 'more outer' or 'more extraverted' at all - because the 1st and 4th actually point towards 'more introverted'.

Correct?

But there is more... because yesterday you mentioned (in response to my two quadrant picture) that when fingers leaning to the radial side the thumb usually gets more close the palm... you refered to an example of a water hand featured with a narrow angle in Johnny's book.

Interestingly, such a thumb is actually considered as another 'introverted' quality; Christopher writes:

"A narrow-angeld thumb indicates a more timid and retiring personality, someone who keeps more to themselves rather than making a dramatic impact on the world around us."

Did I ever say that fingers leaning to radial side is more extroverted? You said it, but did I? If I did, I was probably just going along with it because you understand extraversion better than I do. I said "they are more dependent on externals" and something like "looking to the outside for support". Is that the same as extraversion? I think I agreed that leaning to ulna side is more introverted. But really I don't use the terms introversion & extraversion.


So, Lynn... regarding leaning fingers in specific towards the one side or the other, the elemental system does not appear to provide the basic elements to associate this with outward/inward... nor with introversion/extraversion... because Dukes actually does describe the basic-principle when leaning fingers get associated with extroversion (page 70):

"Fingers which lean away from the hand, i.e., the air or water fingers, demonstrate the wish of their owners to be free from the formative structures of their mental environment."

But this principle 3 (if you allow me) is not applicable to when fingers are leaning to the one or the other side: because in those cases the pinky- or index finger is not really pointing away from the other fingers at all!

Maybe it would sometimes even much more make sense to say that the pink or index finger actually is pushed away... or that the other fingers try to 'seek fulfillment' through the other fingers. Though I realize that this really depends on the details seen in a hand.
Yes he's talking about one single finger leaning away from the others. Sorry you've lost me a bit. I'm not sure what point you are making here.

And mabye, regarding the radial leaning fingers one could argue here that since a long (dominant) water finger is associated with introversion... it could make sense to also associate radial leaning fingers with more introverted.

However, when I then get back to your quadrantial analysis... then it becomes clear that the effects in the radial leaning fingers sort of get 'compensated' by the smaller fire quadrant!

So, in a way we see two effects due to radial leaning fingers:
- the leaning fingers point towards more introversion
- but the quadrants point to more extraversion.
how does the smaller fire quadrant compensate?...for what??? and how do they point to more extraversion. You've lost me completely now.

Both effects compensate each other, and from my point of view if perfectly makes sense that Dukes only associates 'spreading fingers' with extraversion... and he does not not talk about 'inner' or 'outer' regarding the ulnar palm nor regarding the radial palm!
Dukes talks about conscious / subconscious for radial /ulna. Conscious is more manifest (outer) subconscious is more hidden (inner).


flower Now Lynn, I don't know what your perception of the word 'holistic' really is.

I've already told you "The whole and the inter-dependence of its parts."
But I didn't tell you this..(copied from my teaching notes) the word holistic comes from the same roots as the words 'whole' 'holy', 'heal' and 'hale'.

But I can only hope that this attempt of mine to apply the principles for leaning fingers + fingers lengths + quadrants... in order to put them all together resulting in a 'holistic' conclusion (where things tend to get neutralized), will make sense.

Sorry you lost me, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make.

[color=darkred]PS. Your attempt to argue only via the quadrants... looks actually quite like the approach that you used regarding Johnny's description!

And your argument regarding that any quadrant analysis should actually include an analysis of all 4 quadrants... really makes me wonder about why you actually even started talking about only 1 quadrant in the perspective of 'leaning fingers' anyway!????
Well I've explained that I answered via quadrants because Johnny mentioned them and you asked if I understood, then you asked more about quadrants. You asked me to be consistent so I repeated the interpretation via 5-elements. I have also explained that I focussed on the generality of fire being smallest for simplicity of description. But you then made assumption that if one quadrant is smallest, its diagonal opposite must be largest, which is not the case. The interpretation of quadrants is the subject of an entire book and I don't have the time or inclination to go into it alll here. Especially as it is rather pointless, because nobody uses quadrant analysis any more! (which is where we started, from Johnny's words!)

Yesterday I avoided to talk about the other 2 quadrants in order to not make things even more complicated, but... now I could actually argue that in the perspective of how to interpretate 'leaning fingers' it would have made much more sense if we actually had started talking about the leaning of the individual fingers - because I think it only makes sense to consider the quadrants AFTER a consideration regarding the individual fingers. Because only then an analysis can be described to represent a truely 'holistic' approach! [/b]

(Correct? Very Happy )
Well of course in a hand analysis I would take the development, spacing, leaning etc of every finger into account, along with every other aspect of the hand!
You asked me specific questions, I tried to answer them specifically without bringing too many other factors in. Then you keep coming back with more questions regarding other aspects of analysis. But as you don't even seem to understand some of the basics of the elemental system, I'm finding it really time consuming to answer everything. I'm aware that I haven't answered to your satisfaction. But do you really want me to reproduce (or even look thru for reference) the entire contents of about 10 books, 3 huge arch-lever files, numerous seminar notes & C.Soc booklets here, to help your understanding? it would be impossible!
If there's anyone else here who studied the 5-element system, I hope they come in to answer your questions.

Sleep Sleep



___________________________________________
Lynn
www.handanalysis.co.uk
Lynn
Lynn

Posts : 2460
Join date : 2010-07-24
Location : Devon, England

http://www.handanalysis.co.uk

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:58 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:

Patti, have you so far included Duke's guidelines for leaning fingers op page 70 and 71?


I looked at pages 70 and 71. Dukes has simply taken 'traditional' palmistry concepts and applied elements to them. In my opinion, narrowing down and limiting the wider spectrum of indications.

In the left column on page 71 For example, the 2nd one down with little finger held close - is typically seen on people that can keep secrets - or is keeping one in the moment. According to Spier, and my observations agree, a little finger held close enjoys close snugglely relationships and are typically more committed. Dukes missed the relationship element and leaves one with the idea of cautious and inhibited.

I could go on with each. The aspects being looked at are not newly discovered features by Duke, they have just been repackaged his style and boxed into elements.
Patti
Patti

Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Sucom Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:16 am

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:

Patti, have you so far included Duke's guidelines for leaning fingers op page 70 and 71?


I looked at pages 70 and 71. Dukes has simply taken 'traditional' palmistry concepts and applied elements to them. In my opinion, narrowing down and limiting the wider spectrum of indications.

In the left column on page 71 For example, the 2nd one down with little finger held close - is typically seen on people that can keep secrets - or is keeping one in the moment. According to Spier, and my observations agree, a little finger held close enjoys close snugglely relationships and are typically more committed. Dukes missed the relationship element and leaves one with the idea of cautious and inhibited.

I could go on with each. The aspects being looked at are not newly discovered features by Duke, they have just been repackaged his style and boxed into elements.

I'm not familiar wiih Dukes book, or the elemental system that he offered, although I do acknowledge elements in my own hand reading. I have to say, I agree with you on this, Patti, especially where you said 'just repackaged his style and boxed into elements'.

In fact, I cannot stress enough how important I feel it is to be open minded about 'all' traditions of hand reading and take on board those things that appear to correlate with others and which ring true in your own experience. I am always wary of taking on just one person's approach because I believe this can be very limiting indeed. Every single hand reader is likely to build up his knowledge based on his own perception and there are many different perceptions out there! I have never agreed 100% with the writings of just one author but developed my own skills by correlating many authors work. You could argue that in picking out my own truths about palmlstry, I too, am limited by my own perception and understanding. Basically, we all are! It's unavoidable.

Sucom

Posts : 79
Join date : 2010-07-25

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Sucom Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:52 am

- but first I want you to know that my major objective in this topic is to discuss the key-words in the hand reading literature; and in this perspective I don't want to spent too much time on personal associations when these are not directly connected with the major key-words in the hand reading books - I hope you understand this in the perspective of the charts that I have presented- NOTICE: in the latest 2 charts I have featured the names of hand readers with the key-words that I have selected!);

Martijn, looking at your last sentence, you said: ‘I have featured the names of hand readers with key words that I have selected. The one word that stands out here is ‘I’. What you are saying is, words that YOU have selected from certain authors. Or you could say, words that you have selected based on your own understanding and perception of truth. We are all subject to doing this, and in this, I see you no differently, despite your suggestion that you are not putting forward your own personal understanding but picking out various keywords from a variety of sources. We see what we want to see, yes? There are other thoughts you could select so what made you select these in particular?

The fact that you are unfamiliar with Gregg Braden’s work doesn’t make it irrelevant to this discussion. Gregg Braden is known for his work on bridging science and spirituality so I believe it IS relevant in a discussion where ether, essence, thinking, feeling, willing have been mentioned. These are subjects Gregg Braden focuses on.

I’m pleased to hear that your latest charts include some key words from more classic authors. This suggests an openness which has got to be a good thing.

Regarding music as self expression – yes, of course it is. We can inded express ourselves through music but this is not the point I was making. Music is a language all of its own. Doesn’t language fall under communication? Sound is energy and energy is all around us as well as within us. When we create music, where is the origin of the sound? Where is it coming from? Within, without? What and where is music? I think you are missing my point. You talk about inner and outer, but to do this, surely you have to consider exactly what is ‘inner’ and ‘outer’. Inner and outer what? Energy? I still feel there is need for further understanding of what is meant by inner and outer before we can determine which aspects of the personality fit into each.

I’m not quite sure why you have mentioned to feel free NOT to respond to your post. Is this a dismissal? While it doesn't really matter how I take this comment, what it possibly demonstrates to me is a desire to ignore other possibilities within this subject that do not correspond to your own perceptions and understanding. Looking at the chart you have written below, I see that outer world/outgoing is positioned in the ulna side of the palm and that the inner/hidden world in on the radial. I cannot possibly agree with this and from my own perception, believe you are wrong, UNLESS we are perceiving inner and outer differently. While my belief may be due to my own personal perception, I would also suggest that either it goes very much against many, many authors work in the field of hand reading or your perception of those authors’ words is rather different from mine.
I understand that you are attempting to put together a chart that can be agreed upon by all. I realise that you are looking for truth. But my own thoughts are that there should be a better definition of what inner and outer actually means or implicates before adding anything to the list. Have you already determined within this topic the meaning of the words inner and outer? If so, could you point me to them or mention it again here.

Sucom

Posts : 79
Join date : 2010-07-25

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  guypalm Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:03 am

Hello Sue,

I enjoyed this comment of yours. It mirrors my own thoughts at every point of this thread's progress. Thumb up

guypalm

Posts : 34
Join date : 2012-09-26

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Lynn Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:29 pm

Patti wrote:The aspects being looked at are not newly discovered features by Duke, they have just been repackaged his style and boxed into elements.
Yes. Well, we know Terry Dukes was a fraud! His book is not based on the Chinese Wu-Hsing system that Dukes claims. The Chinese mainly use the Taoist 5 elements: Wood, Metal, Water, Earth and Fire. He seems to have started with the Western elements from Fred Gettings and expanded it to the whole hand.

___________________________________________
Lynn
www.handanalysis.co.uk
Lynn
Lynn

Posts : 2460
Join date : 2010-07-24
Location : Devon, England

http://www.handanalysis.co.uk

Back to top Go down

I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man! - Page 16 Empty Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 16 of 43 Previous  1 ... 9 ... 15, 16, 17 ... 29 ... 43  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum