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X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic!

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X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Empty Re: X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic!

Post  Patti on Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:39 pm

The subjective human nature involved in the interpretation of a sharpened and zoomed image is the assumption that angles haven't been rounded in the sharpening process.

Unfortunately you have to rely on the zoomed and sharpened process to justify that there is a loop.

I am able to show with very little zooming and no sharpening of the 1937 prints, and no zooming or sharpening at all of the high quality image of the 1933 prints that the print is a tented arch.

You are trying to prove there is a rounded edge - necessary for your recurve - when it is only possible by an editing process. You can do your own research regarding zooming and sharpening and the "mathematical" process involved as can anyone else reading this and realize I am correct.

I think the recurve is naturally disputed by the right index finger's angles at the core.

I have facts and rules supporting my analysis and that we are looking at what is classified a Tented Arch. I feel confident with my analysis.
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Post  Patti on Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:51 pm

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 A_disn17

With the rules that I have shared in previous posts from "The Science of Fingerprints", the images I uploaded last night showing coordinates on 3 prints of the left index finger and 1 of the right, plus this illustration - I rest my case. It is now up to the readers here to decide for themselves.

The core of the finger print involves an upthrust that is abutted to the horizontal ridge above. There is obviously no recurve as it is spoiled by the angle. The upper shoulder of the possible looping ridge naturally flows across the horizontal ridge and does not naturally curve and freely join the upthrust.

Because of these facts, this print is classified as a tented arch.

Patti Lightflower

<edit>
Well true to form, this forum degraded my image since it was probably too large. Here is a link to a 1.5 MB version.


I Read Hands - Disney' Tented Arch

sunny



Last edited by Patti on Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Image distorted in the uploading process.)
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Post  Patti on Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:22 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:...

My mouse is a roller ball type and my hands are less agile than they used to be so it is difficult for me to draw perfectly. ...

Okay, this makes sense for me. Yes, I noticed in nearly all your pictures you had problems to follow the lines.

Patti, but your argument about ZOOMING really doesn't makes sense: because every single picture that you presented so far... is actually a ZOOMED version of the original Disney fingerprint!!!

(The width of his finger was probably smaller than 1 inch....our pictures are much larger!)

Banana waving


PS. Again, using ZOOMED versions should make if much easier for you to draw the lines, etc.

When you scan from the source such as a photo in a book you are working with a very high quality transfer of the image. A lithograph as I've explained isn't made like a print. It is not made up of dots therefore when scanned the scanner isn't filling in spaces it is a copy of what is there. I scanned at 1200 dpi so the image I saved to my computer was huge. When I cropped away the index finger the result is only cropped and not altered in any other way. I shared a link earlier and you acknowledged you were even able to see the texture of the paper of page.

In the right index finger print taken from Renald's book, the dots are noticible. This is also a scan, but it is enlarging what is there. Instead of filling dots to make an image, you are left with the original, but now larger, dots.

It would be nice to be able to scan the FBI prints to enlarge them. But to do so would entail printing them out first. Then we are back to trusting what the printer's software sees and completes with dots. A copy of a copy of a copy.

I hope you can comprehend the difference sciences involved in this process.

Perhaps you should look at my images with reading glasses rather than zooming them. Magnification doesn't involve pixelation.
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Post  Patti on Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:30 pm

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Origin10

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Right_11
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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:20 pm

Patti wrote:X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 A_disn17
Patti... rolling on the floor

I can see that you have written in this picture:

"Martijn's axis is correct in the two 1937 prints, but incorrection in the 1933 print".

But there is no 'axis' at all visible in those pictures...?


And by the way... any axis analysis in those 3 pictures of mine would not make sense without correcting for the angle related to how the finger was postioned on the paper. (I know that in the 1937 prints the finger was positioned under almost the same angle, but in 1933 handprint... the finger was positioned under a different angle!

In those three picture I did not correct for this factor (I only did that in later pictures where I started drawing more lines).

So, I can see with bare eyes that the 1933 print is presented under a different angle. So, it appears that iyour axis-analysis in my pictures... you did not correct for the angle!!!


And more specific to how you wrote your conclusion:

I never considered the axis in those pictures... so when your write "Martijn's axis", you are only considering aspects of the print that were not under my influence at all.

So, I can only see here how you made my pictures pictures look 'bad'... with words only!!!

Thumb down


( lol! Lord, have mercy with my discussion partner... I sense that she probably doesn't really know what she is doing....???)


Patti, can you please explain what are you are trying to do with those pictures?
I only added the core-line + the triradius, so... what is the intent of your axis-analysis in those pictures???

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
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X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Empty Re: X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:34 pm

Patti wrote:X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Origin10

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Right_11

Patti, what are you trying to proof with these two pictures?

I recognize how both pictures are the result of using a lower scan-resolution. But in the 1937 fingerprint file (as presented at Arnold & Andrew's website)... we don't see any signs at all that the original copy was made with a likewise low resolution.

Afterall, in especially the light 1937 we can follow far most of the visible ridges lines quite easily.

That is the reason why I described earlier that your 'worries' about pixels & resolution... are insignificant.


scratch Again... Patti, what are you trying to proof here?

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
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Post  Patti on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:20 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Origin10

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Right_11

Patti, what are you trying to proof with these two pictures?

I recognize how both pictures are the result of using a lower scan-resolution. But in the 1937 fingerprint file (as presented at Arnold & Andrew's website)... we don't see any signs at all that the original copy was made with a likewise low resolution.

Afterall, in especially the light 1937 we can follow far most of the visible ridges lines quite easily.

That is the reason why I described earlier that your 'worries' about pixels & resolution... are insignificant.


scratch Again... Patti, what are you trying to proof here?

You have misunderstood again. Both scans (1933 left and right index) are magnification. Like Jeanette smartly suggested using a microscope - closer to a microscope. Zooming is a different process.

The image with dots is actually how the image was formed. The print in the book is many tiny dots making up the image.

When you make a copy of something via a photocopy machine - it also uses the method of dots.

I could zoom the scanned image of the 1933 to the point it becomes pixelated - but at 5084x7020 and 11 MB I need a very, very large monitor screen to see it.

It is truly important that you understand this concept. There's plenty of info found by googling Pixelated Interpolation. Look up also the process of Zooming and the process used by photocopiers.

These are vital facts for you to use in order to make your point believeable.
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Post  Patti on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:28 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 A_disn17
Patti... rolling on the floor

I can see that you have written in this picture:

"Martijn's axis is correct in the two 1937 prints, but incorrection in the 1933 print".

But there is no 'axis' at all visible in those pictures...?


And by the way... any axis analysis in those 3 pictures of mine would not make sense without correcting for the angle related to how the finger was postioned on the paper. (I know that in the 1937 prints the finger was positioned under almost the same angle, but in 1933 handprint... the finger was positioned under a different angle!

In those three picture I did not correct for this factor (I only did that in later pictures where I started drawing more lines).

So, I can see with bare eyes that the 1933 print is presented under a different angle. So, it appears that iyour axis-analysis in my pictures... you did not correct for the angle!!!


And more specific to how you wrote your conclusion:

I never considered the axis in those pictures... so when your write "Martijn's axis", you are only considering aspects of the print that were not under my influence at all.

So, I can only see here how you made my pictures pictures look 'bad'... with words only!!!

Thumb down


( lol! Lord, have mercy with my discussion partner... I sense that she probably doesn't really know what she is doing....???)


Patti, can you please explain what are you are trying to do with those pictures?
I only added the core-line + the triradius, so... what is the intent of your axis-analysis in those pictures???

I probably should have used Vertex or Point of Intersection rather than Axis.

But what I called them doesn't change what and where they are.

Your little green mark in the 1933 print of your illustration has the point of intersection off to the left as when compared to the point of intersection on the two 1937 prints. No need to slant the image to match it to the other images below.

I did not want to use the term triradius or delta at this point. My intention was to draw one's attention to a particular point.


Last edited by Patti on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:36 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : didn't mean "x" meant the green mark)
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Post  Patti on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:35 pm

Very Happy

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Fbifin10

Zooming in on 1930's fingerprint analysts at work with their enlargement tools.

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 32587510

Magnification.
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Post  Patti on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:53 pm

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 A_disn18
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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:59 pm

Patti wrote:
I probably should have used Vertex or Point of Intersection rather than Axis.

But what I called them doesn't change what and where they are.

Your little green mark in the 1933 print of your illustration has the point of intersection off to the left as when compared to the point of intersection on the two 1937 prints. No need to slant the image to match it to the other images below.
...

Patti, it appears that you first sort of wanted to confirm my point (where you say: 'I probably should have used...'). But did you really understand what I am talking about???

Because... your second point, is a direct result of the angle-issue that I adressed! Banana waving


So, it is obvious for me that you do not understand my point, because when making a fingerprint with the finger positioned on the paper with different angle... that directly results in a different position of the triradius (compared to the 'core' of the print) in the horizontal axis (in this example it creates a larger distance)... and the vertical axis (in this example it creates a smaller distance) distance.

But of course... meanwhile the absolute distance between the triradius and the 'core' has not chanced at all.


PS. I now see that your attempts are going nowhere so I will now start working on a new picture where I apply your brilliant idea! Very Happy

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:09 pm

Patti wrote:X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 A_disn18
Shocked ...Patti, I now see that you tried to correct your mistake by changing the words that you used in the first comment of your picture, but that illustrates once more that you don't really understand what you observed.

My former post describes why! (You should have considered the vertical-axis as well, then you would have noticed that my triradius in the 1933 is actually at the same point as in both 1937 prints.... because in the vertical-axis the triradius has shifted upward to the 'core'):

Banana waving


( ... this discussion became sort a good 'work-out training' for my stomach-muscles... rolling on the floor )

___________________________________________
sunny

Martijn van Mensvoort
Hand researcher & psychologist in The Netherlands (Holland)
Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network
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Post  Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:39 am

Hi Martijn,
I'm glad you're enjoying yourself.

You've been quite the muse for me too.

Your top 3 prints with their markings really aren't relevant to my presentation. And only the tiny green limb that points downward is close to the correct location. I checked several times last night viewing a number of your uploads. That one has less markings and made it easy to see what you were pointing out with your green marks. Wasn't it what you called an 8 pointed star? Since you are so ready to pounce on the flaws that really have nothing to do with a demonstrating a radial loop or tented arch, I tried to make extra sure I had made the correct observation. Sorry if I chose an illustration that you no longer agreed with.

While you seem to no longer agree with your earlier illustrations, how about presenting something new.

I honored your suggestion in using all three prints. I think it is only fair that you do the same, it was your idea. Once you have created your own, then we'll talk.

Use mine to point out what you disagree with if you like. But use yours to make your own point.

I'm really very comfortable, as I said earlier with my assessment that this is a tented arch. I'm just hoping that I'll get to see water turned into wine when you show us a your radial loop.
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Post  Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:46 am

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 A_cr_210
X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Walt-d10
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Post  Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:55 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:
I probably should have used Vertex or Point of Intersection rather than Axis.

But what I called them doesn't change what and where they are.

Your little green mark in the 1933 print of your illustration has the point of intersection off to the left as when compared to the point of intersection on the two 1937 prints. No need to slant the image to match it to the other images below.
...

Patti, it appears that you first sort of wanted to confirm my point (where you say: 'I probably should have used...'). But did you really understand what I am talking about???

Because... your second point, is a direct result of the angle-issue that I adressed! Banana waving


So, it is obvious for me that you do not understand my point, because when making a fingerprint with the finger positioned on the paper with different angle... that directly results in a different position of the triradius (compared to the 'core' of the print) in the horizontal axis (in this example it creates a larger distance)... and the vertical axis (in this example it creates a smaller distance) distance.

But of course... meanwhile the absolute distance between the triradius and the 'core' has not chanced at all.


PS. I now see that your attempts are going nowhere so I will now start working on a new picture where I apply your brilliant idea! Very Happy

I'm not working with a core. Never even said core.

I am lining my vertical line up with two locations easily spotted in all three prints.

1) Above the pattern area of the fingerprint, found in all three samples, there are two ridges one above the other that bifurcates or splits.

2) There is a matching place on all three prints around the center of the print on the horizontal plane.

My vertical line connects these two (to the best degree of accuracy with available tools) creating another absolute coordinate that matches in all three prints.

Distance isn't a point here. Counting ridges is.


Last edited by Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:02 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : clarity)
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Post  Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:59 am

I can handle your ridicule. But, I do wish you'd take the time to see if it's not you that has made the misunderstanding before you lash out with such senseless remarks about my mental condition.
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Post  Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:23 am

Just want to make it very clear. My lined illustrations repeated below are based on matching coordinates. Any labeling or naming the locations is only meant for recognition.

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 A_disn19
X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 A_disn20
X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Illust10

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Feb 27, 2011 2:52 am


Okay Patti,

Before I present you my speed-course, titled: "How to hide 9 bananas in Walt Disney radial loop fingerprint with 'matching coordinates'", I would like to invite you first to watch & enjoy the Banana-song:

(This funny 'bananahnah' video presents a singing banana.... who has a friend that very much looks like a large dancing INK DOT...!!! rolling on the floor )

lol!




Back to Walt Disney's left index fingerprint...


Before applying your brilliant suggestion regarding 'matching coordinates', I first applied the following five steps:

STEP 1 - I made sure that all 3 prints are of exactly the same size (both '1937 prints' are ZOOMED at 1000%, and I have adjusted the size of the '1933 print' very close to the same size).

STEP 2 - I made sure all 3 prints are now presented at exactly the same 'angle', so I sort of deleted the 'rotation effect differences' from the prints: I used the 'LIGHT 1937 print' as a point of reference, applied 2 degree counter-clockwise to the 'DARK 1937 print', and applied 11 degrees counter-clockwise to the 1933 print.

STEP 3 - Then I have created a 'layer' for the 'LIGHT 1937 print'. And in this 'layber' I have painted red spots in about 70 clearly identifiable INK DOTS in that print; then I connected those red spots with blue lines at all points where the 'LIGHT 1937 print' displays a clear INK CONNECTION (which look like ridge lines) between the dots.

STEP 4 - And finally I illustrated the 'looping ridge line' with 6 bananas, and the 'large triradius' with 3 bananas.

STEP 5 - Then I copied the 'layer' that I created for the 'LIGHT 1937 print', and I pasted the 'layer' to both the 'DARK 1937 print' and the '1933 print'.


The results of my quick-course are presented below:


- HOW TO HIDE 9 BANANAS IN
WALT DISNEY'S RADIAL LOOP FINGERPRINT
WITH MATCHING COORDINATES
-


lol!


1 - The 'LIGHT 1937 print':

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 1937-l10

+ The 'LIGHT 1937 print' + the 'layer' that I created (based on this print):

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 1937-l11


2 - The 'DARK 1937 print':

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 1937-d12

+ The 'DARK 1937 print' featured with the 'layer' copy-and-pasted from the 'LIGHT 1937' print:

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 1937-d13


3 - The '1933 print':

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 193310

+ The '1933 print' featured with the 'layer' copy-and-pasted from the 'LIGHT 1937' print:

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 1933-b10


Patti, I think it is obvious that these are by far the most detailed pictures that we have seen in this discussion. And I think the similarities between the common paths of the ridge lines in all three pictures are now very well illustrated

And these pictures also indicate that I was correct in my conclusion that there was no need to reject any of the pictures, and my previous attempts focussed on drawing lines where ink is seen in all three prints were also quite accurate, though the quality of the lines in my former pictures was never as good as in these pictures.


Patti, I hope you will be able to understand how I applied in 5 STEPS your BRILLIANT IDEA to these prints. And you are welcome to study the details, but I hope you will not try to put any 'salt' on small imperfections regarding how the red dots, the blue lines and the bananas fit in the INKED RIDGE LINES.

(I am sure that maybe I could have adjusted the sizes and angles a little bit more to create even better pictures; but I think it is fair to claim that these pictures display the best impression of the path of the ridge lines in Walt Disney's fingerprint.)


Finally, I hope you can now understand why I have been able to recognize the 'looping ridge' line in the '1933 print' shortly after you presented it; and why Lynn was able to find it after she took some time to study it.

Now, if you still think that I only tried to talk you into an illusion, then there must be something wrong with my brains... or your brains ... or one of use definitely must have lost 'authenticity-of-expression' somewhere in this discussion.

lol!


PS. Patti, for me there is really not much more to add to this discussion, and I can live with the result where we have arrived right now. I have explained so many details... that I will probably leave this discussion where it is right now.

If you still disagree with most observations that I pointed out, then we can only agree to disagree... and I hope you had fun!!!

(I certainly had fun... this discussion became very useful for me to learn more about the essential elements of a 'tented arch', an 'upthrust', and the 'horizontal plane')

Thumb up

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Post  Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:22 am

Yes, I don't have any problems with what you drew.....except according to "The Science of Fingerprints" there isn't a radial loop except for in your drawings.

1) You must be able to make a smoothly recurving loop. You have rounded (again) an area that is angled. Ridges that abut are not recurving.

2) If you are continuing a flow of a ridge, you must follow in the direction that it is flowing without turning corners at 90 degrees.

This is the flaw that I keep pointing out to you. It's according to the FBI's directions.

The bottom part of the feature you are looping would continue it's flow right on up the finger with no recurve. The feature on top would continue it's flow to the left.

Why do you keep ignoring this simple set of rules that apply to a loop and to following the flow of the ridges? This is the only thing you present that I question. Prove on all three that there is a recurve and no angle.


"The Science of Fingerprints"

If the appending ridge flows off the looping ridge smoothly in such a way that it forms a bifurcation and not an abutment of two ridges at a right angle, the recurve is considered as remaining intact. The test is to trace the looping ridge toward the appendage, and if, when it is reached, the tracing may be continued as readily upon the appendage as upon the looping ridge, with no sudden, sharp change of direction, the recurve is sufficient. Figures 161 to 184 should be studied with this in mind. (page 44)

Tented arches and some forms of the loop are often confused. It should be remembered by the reader that the mere converging of two ridges does not form a recurve, without which there can be no loop. (page 37)

The ridge count of the tented arch is merely a convention of fingerprinting, a fiction designed to facilitate a scientific classification of tented arches, and has no connection with a loop.(page 41)

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Finger10

This explains why the FBI put T with a ridge count of 1 and drew a line radially. They were looking at the original inked print through a strong magnifying glass when they made their assessment. Tented Arch Radial 1 ridge Count.

Martijn you have failed to prove anything. Anyone can draw what they want to see. I can also draw a loop in the exact place as you. I'm not blind. I see the possibility. Yet, the rules do not classify this as radial loop as it is missing a proper qualified recurve.

If you can prove this, you only need to illustrate it on all three prints in just the area that relates to a recurve. Also count ridges from matching coordinates to prove that you have drawn your recurve using the same ridges in all three prints. That's all that is necessary, if possible.



Last edited by Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:40 am; edited 4 times in total
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Post  Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:30 am

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Walt_d11

When choosing to curve the ridges in the 1937 prints to form a recurving loop, I think it is essential to take into consideration the similarities in the right index fingerprint.
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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:01 am

Patti wrote:... Why do you keep ignoring this simple set of rules that apply to a loop and to following the flow of the ridges? This is the only thing you present that I question. Prove on all three that there is a recurve and no angle.


"The Science of Fingerprints"

If the appending ridge flows off the looping ridge smoothly in such a way that it forms a bifurcation and not an abutment of two ridges at a right angle, the recurve is considered as remaining intact. The test is to trace the looping ridge toward the appendage, and if, when it is reached, the tracing may be continued as readily upon the appendage as upon the looping ridge, with no sudden, sharp change of direction, the recurve is sufficient. Figures 161 to 184 should be studied with this in mind. (page 44)
Patti, you presented an excellent question!

To answer your question I have added two green arrows at the two points where a 'bifurcation' is seen in the 'looping ridge line' in the 'LIGHT 1937 print', see below:

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 1937-l12

Both points look quite the same, and at both points we see an angle smaller than 90 degrees between two of the three ridges lines involved.

According the book we SHOULD call them 'bifurcations'... and not 'abuting ridges' like you suggested, simply because that would require that there are TWO angles involved smaller than 90 degrees - but that is obviously not the.

Two more details about the individual 'bifurcations':

- At the lower 'bifurcation' we can clearly see that the 2-banana parts are the strongest ridge parts (the one coming from the 'large triradius' is clearly weaker).

- At the upper 'bifurcation' we can see that the ridge line going up to left is indeed strong, but since that ridge follows a likewise 'looping' path as seen in the ridge line turnig around the core... we can safely conclude that the 'looping ridge line' is not spoiled!


So, I think this answer illustrates... that my observations clearly demonstrate that according the book we can 'fairly' call this a radial loop.

Now... Patti, you just told me that this is the ONLY THING that you question. And I have explained the answer to your question via the 'LIGHT 1937 print'. So, I hope that I can trust on your words... and do not come up with just another completely different question!

(But if you need more clarification about the question that you already asked... then I will be pleased to answer it with patience... Smile )


Can you now please confirm that I at least made a 'solid' assessment?

(If yes, then I am not going to ask you anyhow to agree any further with my 'assessment'...! Okay?)

wave

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Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:11 am


thinking ... I have one final essential point to add regarding the three points involved in the 'large triradius':

At each of these points we can speak of a 'bifurcation' (because there is always one angle seen that is smaller than 90 degress); therefore formally none of these 3 individual points can be called a 'triradius'.

Therefore I have during this discussion spoken about the 'large triradius'... that is composed by the three individual lines involved!!!


cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers

And between this 'large triradius' and the 'core' we find the 'looping bananas', therefore we SHOULD call the pattern... a 'RADIAL LOOP'.

cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers cheers


Because formally, due to the many 'bifurcations' there is no other other option possible.


PS. Earlier I already described why there is no 'upthrust' seen in the fingerprint at all, but I admit that this last observation is only CLEARLY seen in the 'LIGHT 1937 print'.

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Post  Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:18 am

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 1937-l10

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 2-21-210

A bifurcation is basically a forking ridge.

If you are trying to join the top ridge to the upthrust it must be a bifurcation as you can see the ridge flowing over the top. So the top of your loop will be basically forking. One ridge continues and fades to the left and the other would have to "curve" to make a loop. At that point where it should be curving there is an angle. This angle spoils the recurve and is the main reason it's not a loop.
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Post  Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:29 am

Do you not acknowledge the similarities of the right index finger? Mirror or no mirror - they belong to the same man.

The inherent nature of this fingerprint at the center is to be angular.

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 Right_12
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Post  Patti on Sun Feb 27, 2011 4:48 am

X - WALT DISNEY - One of his fingerprints shows an unusual characteristic! - Page 7 90_deg10

"The Science of Fingerprints"

'If the appending ridge flows off the looping ridge smoothly in such a way that it forms a bifurcation and not an abutment of two ridges at a right angle, the recurve is considered as remaining intact. The test is to trace the looping ridge toward the appendage, and if, when it is reached, the tracing may be continued as readily upon the appendage as upon the looping ridge, with no sudden, sharp change of direction, the recurve is sufficient." (page 44)
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