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Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
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Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Kiran.Katawa Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:31 am
Hi,
Here the right and left hand pics of my friend.
The right hand has Sydney line( I hope I am right!). What do you say about the left hand?
Warm regards,
Here the right and left hand pics of my friend.
The right hand has Sydney line( I hope I am right!). What do you say about the left hand?
Warm regards,
Kiran.Katawa- Posts : 2003
Join date : 2011-03-07
Age : 43
Location : Bangalore -
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Martijn (admin) Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:28 pm
Kiran.Katawa wrote:Hi,
Here the right and left hand pics of my friend.
The right hand has Sydney line( I hope I am right!). What do you say about the left hand?
Warm regards,
Hello Kiran,
That's a 'hard nut to crack'... because both hands show various characteristics that can be associated with the simian line, the Sydney line and the Suwon crease.
So I think it could best be described as a '(partial) simian crease variant featured with broken head lines and heart lines'.
(Formally the head line is is not long enough in each of both hands to be classified as a Sydney line, and due to the many irregularities in the broken headline(s) variants that are seen in both hands ... one can not simply describe those lines as a Suwon crease variant).
How does my assessment sound to you?
Does it make sense?
Martijn (admin)- Admin
- Posts : 5261
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands -
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Patti Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:18 pm
Hi Kiran,
I agree with Martijn that there are various characteristics associated with all three combinations.
I've marked in red the lines I would relate to as heart line associated and blue as head line.
The line in purple if followed from the ulnar side is heart line related and if followed from the radial side is head line related.
A common feature of the Sydney formation is a heart line that connects to the marriage line. The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue. This is not a common location for the heart line. This creates something that if not clearly a Suwon, I think it would be in the category of variations.
The Sydney, Suwon and Simian all involve a complete transversal crease and that can be found in both hands.
I agree with Martijn that there are various characteristics associated with all three combinations.
I've marked in red the lines I would relate to as heart line associated and blue as head line.
The line in purple if followed from the ulnar side is heart line related and if followed from the radial side is head line related.
A common feature of the Sydney formation is a heart line that connects to the marriage line. The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue. This is not a common location for the heart line. This creates something that if not clearly a Suwon, I think it would be in the category of variations.
The Sydney, Suwon and Simian all involve a complete transversal crease and that can be found in both hands.
Patti- Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Kiran.Katawa Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:21 am
Hi Martin,
Thank you for the clarification.
But, have a doubt here.
Please see this pic:
Note the raising headline(towards the Saturn finger). If this line's ending is moved from 1 to 2, it would make a complete headline. But, currently, its deflected towards the Saturn mount by taking a break in the middle. Since, otherwise, it would form a complete headline. Just 'coz, its breaking, shouldn't it be considered as a variant of Suwon crease?
Thank you for the clarification.
But, have a doubt here.
Please see this pic:
Note the raising headline(towards the Saturn finger). If this line's ending is moved from 1 to 2, it would make a complete headline. But, currently, its deflected towards the Saturn mount by taking a break in the middle. Since, otherwise, it would form a complete headline. Just 'coz, its breaking, shouldn't it be considered as a variant of Suwon crease?
Last edited by Kiran.Katawa on Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:24 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Put a picture with visible markings)
Kiran.Katawa- Posts : 2003
Join date : 2011-03-07
Age : 43
Location : Bangalore -
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Kiran.Katawa Sat Mar 31, 2012 3:26 am
Patti wrote:The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue.
Hi Patti,
You're saying the above sentence regarding Suwon crease. right?( Bit confused as the previous sentence is about Sydney! ). So,you're saying that the merging head/heart line is starting low, which ideally should be little high. And the location at which this merging heart/head line is starting should be the location of the independent head line. Am I right?
Please see, my post on reply to what Martijn's is saying. Accordingly, the headline can take a lower position of being connected to life line, if its re-positioned from 1 to 2.
Had that been the case, this would still be not categorized as Suwon crease as per your description above?
Kiran.Katawa- Posts : 2003
Join date : 2011-03-07
Age : 43
Location : Bangalore -
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Patti Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:03 am
Kiran.Katawa wrote:Patti wrote:The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue.
Hi Patti,
You're saying the above sentence regarding Suwon crease. right?( Bit confused as the previous sentence is about Sydney! ). So,you're saying that the merging head/heart line is starting low, which ideally should be little high. And the location at which this merging heart/head line is starting should be the location of the independent head line. Am I right?
Please see, my post on reply to what Martijn's is saying. Accordingly, the headline can take a lower position of being connected to life line, if its re-positioned from 1 to 2.
Had that been the case, this would still be not categorized as Suwon crease as per your description above?
Hi Kiran,
The line you've traced in black would not be head line related. I think it's in the category of an influence line radiating out from inside the life line. It is also sort of parallel to the empathy lines in the way it curves.
The Suwon crease formation involves a head line originating on the radial side of the palm and connecting to the heart line. There is also a second lower head line. Only the right hand here could be considered to have something like this description.
In these hands, the lines traced in blue are located in a normal location for head lines that are separate from the life line.
Patti- Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Kiran.Katawa Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:14 am
Hi Patti,
the line I have marked in BLACK is not a tracing of any existing line.
What I meant was, there is a curving head line towards Saturn finger. If that traces the path I have drawn and joins the headline/heart line combo in the beginning at position 2. it would make a clear head line. And in such case, why shudn't this be treated as an independent headline.
B.t.w. I am confused b/w these postings of yours. Can you please re-phrase them?
"The Suwon crease formation involves a head line originating on the radial side of the palm and connecting to the heart line. There is also a second lower head line. Only the right hand here could be considered to have something like this description."
"The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue. This is not a common location for the heart line. This creates something that if not clearly a Suwon, I think it would be in the category of variations."
the line I have marked in BLACK is not a tracing of any existing line.
What I meant was, there is a curving head line towards Saturn finger. If that traces the path I have drawn and joins the headline/heart line combo in the beginning at position 2. it would make a clear head line. And in such case, why shudn't this be treated as an independent headline.
B.t.w. I am confused b/w these postings of yours. Can you please re-phrase them?
"The Suwon crease formation involves a head line originating on the radial side of the palm and connecting to the heart line. There is also a second lower head line. Only the right hand here could be considered to have something like this description."
"The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue. This is not a common location for the heart line. This creates something that if not clearly a Suwon, I think it would be in the category of variations."
Kiran.Katawa- Posts : 2003
Join date : 2011-03-07
Age : 43
Location : Bangalore -
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Patti Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:54 am
Kiran.Katawa wrote:Hi Patti,
the line I have marked in BLACK is not a tracing of any existing line.
What I meant was, there is a curving head line towards Saturn finger. If that traces the path I have drawn and joins the headline/heart line combo in the beginning at position 2. it would make a clear head line. And in such case, why shudn't this be treated as an independent headline.
B.t.w. I am confused b/w these postings of yours. Can you please re-phrase them?
"The Suwon crease formation involves a head line originating on the radial side of the palm and connecting to the heart line. There is also a second lower head line. Only the right hand here could be considered to have something like this description."
"The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue. This is not a common location for the heart line. This creates something that if not clearly a Suwon, I think it would be in the category of variations."
HI Kiran,
And I still don't understand what you are describing - head lines typically do not rise to Saturn.
What I described regarding the Suwon is the 'rules' for a Suwon. The Suwon involves 2 head lines. An upper line that connects to the heart line and a second lower head line that is usually attached to the life line farther down.
I think you are aware that a head line can start on the radial side of the hand as seen here in your examples and be separate from the life line.
Patti- Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Kiran.Katawa Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:56 am
Hi Patti,
About my qtn: pls neglect it. I understood what you're saying on it.
Regarding Suwon: The rules are clear.Infact, they were clear before also
, as I had read the article at your website on this and also a discussion on this group itself.
Here is the confusion in RED colored text in this line:"The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue. This is not a common location for the heart line. This creates something that if not clearly a Suwon, I think it would be in the category of variations."
Do you mean - the location of heartline, where it is combined with headline, is not a common location for it?
(NOTE: I am referring to right hand)
And this one: A common feature of the Sydney formation is a heart line that connects to the marriage line. .
Is this rule for Sydney line or Suwon line only?
About my qtn: pls neglect it. I understood what you're saying on it.
Regarding Suwon: The rules are clear.Infact, they were clear before also
, as I had read the article at your website on this and also a discussion on this group itself.Here is the confusion in RED colored text in this line:"The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue. This is not a common location for the heart line. This creates something that if not clearly a Suwon, I think it would be in the category of variations."
Do you mean - the location of heartline, where it is combined with headline, is not a common location for it?
(NOTE: I am referring to right hand)
And this one: A common feature of the Sydney formation is a heart line that connects to the marriage line. .
Is this rule for Sydney line or Suwon line only?
Kiran.Katawa- Posts : 2003
Join date : 2011-03-07
Age : 43
Location : Bangalore -
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Patti Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:31 pm
Kiran.Katawa wrote:Hi Patti,
About my qtn: pls neglect it. I understood what you're saying on it.
Regarding Suwon: The rules are clear.Infact, they were clear before also
Here is the confusion in RED colored text in this line:"The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue. This is not a common location for the heart line. This creates something that if not clearly a Suwon, I think it would be in the category of variations."
Do you mean - the location of heartline, where it is combined with headline, is not a common location for it?
(NOTE: I am referring to right hand)
And this one: A common feature of the Sydney formation is a heart line that connects to the marriage line. .
Is this rule for Sydney line or Suwon line only?
Hi Kiran,
In my opinion, the heart line should not end on the radial edge of the hand. This is head line territory. It is rare to even find a heart line that goes straight across from edge to edge and it not be a simian crease. That's why I would label the radial line I colored blue as head line related.
The heart line connected to the marriage line is not Suwon related. It is not a rule but is simply frequently found.
Patti- Posts : 3912
Join date : 2010-07-24
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Kiran.Katawa Tue Apr 03, 2012 1:48 am
Patti,
thanks a lot. its clear now
thanks a lot. its clear now
Kiran.Katawa- Posts : 2003
Join date : 2011-03-07
Age : 43
Location : Bangalore -
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Martijn (admin) Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:15 pm
Five years later... now I finally recognize this right hand to have a Suwon-Sydney line combination (featured with a Suwon crease 2 variant + the Sydney line has a gap inside):
PS. The left hand has a likewise complex construction, combined with the right hand I recognize it to have a similar construction.
Martijn (admin)- Admin
- Posts : 5261
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands -
Is this Suwon or Sydney line
nishaghai Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:06 am
Patti wrote:Kiran.Katawa wrote:Hi Patti,
About my qtn: pls neglect it. I understood what you're saying on it.
Regarding Suwon: The rules are clear.Infact, they were clear before also
Here is the confusion in RED colored text in this line:"The independent head line commonly starts in the location of the radial crease I have colored blue. This is not a common location for the heart line. This creates something that if not clearly a Suwon, I think it would be in the category of variations."
Do you mean - the location of heartline, where it is combined with headline, is not a common location for it?
(NOTE: I am referring to right hand)
And this one: A common feature of the Sydney formation is a heart line that connects to the marriage line. .
Is this rule for Sydney line or Suwon line only?
Hi Kiran,
In my opinion, the heart line should not end on the radial edge of the hand. This is head line territory. It is rare to even find a heart line that goes straight across from edge to edge and it not be a simian crease. That's why I would label the radial line I colored blue as head line related.
The heart line connected to the marriage line is not Suwon related. It is not a rule but is simply frequently found.
Hello Kiran , Patti Martijin
Great description I enjoyed reading it .
Nisha Ghai
nishaghai- Posts : 1003
Join date : 2010-09-15
Age : 53
Location : New Delhi India -
Re: Is this Suwon Crease or Sydney Line?
Martijn (admin) Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:41 am
nishaghai wrote:
Hello Kiran , Patti Martijin
Great description I enjoyed reading it .
Nisha Ghai
Martijn (admin)- Admin
- Posts : 5261
Join date : 2010-07-23
Location : The Netherlands -
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