III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

I have several works from Mary, her conference reports in 2006 and 2010 with all the presentations, some notes and one thin book that is in both English and Chinese. Most of the other work is all in Chinese except for a couple of my papers that are in English and Chinese. When I met Mary in about 2002, she had been developing her program in her own school for about twenty years. She has received support from some major inteligensia in Chinese Dermatoglyphics including the Chairperson of the Chinese Dermatoglypohic Association, and teacher at the Medical School at Shanghai University, .Professor Zhang Haiguo. I have written her, though our translator, about Dr. Lin as I know nothing about him.

Thank you Ed. - We'll see if the future'll bring us some new sources.

Regards
Manfred

Keep it up Mr. Martijin!

We are very anxiously waiting some substantial outcome of your endeavors in this connection. Many others are also following you like me, I think, to know scientifically research based connection between fingers/ fingerprints and brain lobes. I must thank you Mr. Martijin for providing such a nice platform.

and Enjoy!
Parender Sethi

"The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

I have been studying some of the materials involved in marketing this concept and have hesitated to get more involved because there are no results of success. The field is too new.

At the same time, I am watching it with great interest. This system is very similar in a way to Richard Unger's system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglypics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people's self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.

Hopefully, in the coming years as these systems are used by more people, the developers (or competitors) could provide data to support (or discredit) their claims.

This is where my interest lies - results.

Perhaps the cries of fraud and lack of scientific evidence will help to inspire these developers to provide credible evidence to support their claims. So to that end, I would not wish to discourage these systems to be actively used.

Hi Martijn,
Yes, as an afterthought I can see it sounds like the phrase means the proof is in the self reporting rather than statistics which is want I wanted to convey.

Below is an explanation of my involvement with programs commonly called DMIT programs. I believe they are an the right track, providing information that will grow mor useful to the world as time goes by. They are in embryonic stages in many ways, but they will grow in importance through the years and take on the respect now accorded the DSM, CPI, MMPI and Briggs-Meyers assessments. It depends on whether one believes in the science of biometric correspondences to behavior and character or whether one takes the view like Stewart A Kirk and Herb Kutchins that challenges the DSM rhetoric of the Science in Psychiatry. (The Selling of DSM, The Rhetoric of Science in Psychiatry ©1992). I have come through study and practice over the last thirty years to believe in that biometric and more particularly dermatoglyphic correspondences are to be found to human behavior and character (and health)..

In August of this year I entered a contract with Asian Dermatoglyphics Research Centre Pte. Ltd of Singapore (ADRC) and my company, Amida Biometrics, L.L.C. of Washington State to represent the ThumbRule Dermatoglyphic Multiple Intelligence Testing program (DMIT). The ThumbRule program is found in India, Malaysia, Singapore, and Dubia and I am representing it throughout North America (Canada and the US). It is one of several programs that depend upon fingerprints, palm patters and in one case even foot patterns for behavioral, aptitude and character correspondences that I have examined over the last nine or ten years. They have all been developed in Asia. ThumbRule’s assessment reports are easy for the western mind to grasp, and are available in both Chinese and English. Other competing programs are available in Taiwan, Mainland China and Hong Kong, Thialand, Malaysia, Indonesia, South Africa, the UK, Israel and in a Chinese community in a suburb of Los Angeles. Most of these have grown up in the last four to five years and more intensely in the last two to three years. I have just been consulted by a group from Italy on whether they should represent Thumbrule in Italy. I will cover the subject of Dermatoglyphic Biometric Aptitude Analysis more thoroughly in my upcoming book on Fingerprints and Behavior due for release before the end of the year. One competing program in Malaysia, GeneCode, has grown in this country of around 27 million people since 2006 from nothing to having more than 250 representatives conducting assessments. That country is smaller by almost ten million people than California. The North American market is immense. ADRC now has affiliates in or being developed in India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Singapore, UAR and now in the US and Canada and possibly in Itally.

The program was first designed for child behavior, aptitude and teachable assessments, so that no child would be left behind but each could have the opportunity to realize his or her maximum potentials. Mary Lai, the Taiwanese pioneer working in the field for over a quarter of a century, said she liked to see the children before the age of two. This was because their brains are still so plastic and she could work to avoid many problems she had encountered with autistic, Asperger’s syndrome, and other children with apparent challenged learning or behavioral problems. Theoretically, when the scanning hardware is good enough, we could scan the new born’s hands (and feet) and provide aptitude reports when the mother checks out of the maternity ward. I will be working on this.

These programs have expanded to being useful in the later years of education, in human resource selections and is moving towards use in forensic profiling. In one presentation at her conference in 2010, a pilot trainer with both commercial and military experience in his thirty years in the field, said that her test were the most reliable predictors in his experience of who would succeed in the training and thrive in the field of aviation.

Besides Karan Behl, the driving young man from India who sparks ThumbRule’s sales, others such as Marcus Leng, a young medical tech. from Singapore, Kusum Vig, a seasoned educator in India with a masters in clinical psychology and M.Phil. in Guidance and Counseling, and Sivaraj PPN, with 35 years experience in fingerprints identification science; Ex- Assistant Registrar of Criminal fingerprints for Malaysia and Singapore; member of the Royal Malaysian Police Force, Criminal Investigation Department; and Chief Lecturer in dermatoglyphic sciences, are helping formulate and manage the ThumRule assessment program. For more on ThumbRule and its associates try http://www.thumbrule.in/contactus.htm. Our own newly revised web site should be up soon: www.amidabio.com.

I have not seen the GeneCode (http://www.genecode.com.my/v2/cn/home.aspx) report sample and have not examined the data bases for that program or the other programs. So far they are all closely guarded trade secrets, except for my own which I seek to protect through copyright and patent. I could only begin to give a reasoned evaluation of any of the programs if I could see the data bases, what variations in the fingerprints are used and what and how does each variation relate to assessments in the data base. I believe that Marcus Leng and ADRC give about as much information as is currently available on the web. I have more information on Mary Lai's program because I have several of her books and have spent more time with her and her colleagues and am qualified to use it. Unfortunately, most of her written work is in Chinese. I know that each DMIT relies on counting the ridge lines, and on several variations of the prints. Mine only relies on variations of the prints, but far more variations.

Lysander Poon of GeneCode studied under Mary Lai but he says his program does not strictly follow hers. Neither he nor Thumbrule use the foot prints. Lysander appeared to still be close to Mary when he attended her 2010 conference in Taipei and my class after the conference. Mary considers the foot prints important and I would like to add them in the future. I look forward to full body biometric analysis. I believe I will have to do much of the theoretical testing for improvements here in North America, though so far I have had good relationship with Karan Behl. Perhaps Martjin and his friends may prove me wrong. I know of others interested, even in Siberia. I would expect to make continuous improvements to these programs and add other biometric programs as time and funds permit. One of my first goals is to find a reliable scanner that can be used in clinical settings that will give clear detail to the ridge formation of the feet and hands of newborns. It may be possible to do that with RF (radio frequency) scanners but are they safe to use with newborns? I don't know.

I have my own program. I do not call it DMIT as I do not like the term. I have coined the more accurate term of Dermatoglyphic Biometric Aptitude Assessments (DBAA). I published my program for the first time a year ago in a class in Taipei after one of Mary's Lai's conferences and after I applied for patent protection. My book will detail it more thoroughly and I hope to publish that privately soon, possibly before the end of the year. Karan Behl and ADRC offers me the opportunity of making my program available though out the world by furnishing inexpensive manual pattern recognition labor in India. This is how his program is supplied to current assessors who are not required to know the prints or how to count the ridges but only measure atd angles.

In addition to sharing the reference manual to the ThumbRule assessment program which I shared with Martjin and some others, I have been seeking to confirm continued interest in these projects, asking those who are qualified counselors or HR evaluators whether they may be interested in becoming a licensee to administer these assessments, or if they might be interested in making any loan to the company, Amida Biometrics, L.L.C... We are new and it will take some time to build up the cash flow to cover the expansion expenses and operational costs we will face over the next twelve to eighteen months. So we are actively seeking loans for three years to help defray the start up costs. I have invested thousands over the past years traveling to Asia six times, and also hosting two conferences in Las Vegas and one in Budapest, covering the significant costs of intellectual property rights protection, and my funds are low, so I cannot make it to the finish line without some additional help. We welcome your questions and suggestions. We want to build up more of a track record before considering any type of public offering or seeking any venture capital investments. Obviously we hzave to overcome such nay sayers who really do not use the product as Martjin. If he gets tired of knocking oour work, he can go back and knock the Big Five Inventory, the CPI, MMPI, Briggs-Myers and DSM and perhaps join such luminaries as Kirk and Kutchins, professors at Columbia University and California State University at Sacramento, respectively. For me, I had waited for academically approved “scientific proof” I would have never been a palmist and never learned much about the subject.

I am not ashamed of thecommercial connections for this work. I have been advocating them for years. This is the only way the field can be financed. The field will have Dons and receive academic finances after it can generate enough jobs to attract graduates and financial contributions to academic institutions to attract the interest of those institutions. That is the way the modern system works, at least in the west and in market driven economies. Wake up Martjin, you are trying to stop a train by standing on the railroad tracks. Best hope that there is a cow catcher so you will not be crushed under the wheels.

I have invited you, Martjin, to every conference sponsored by IBMBS and I pleaded with you to come to Kuala Lumpur last year and present any paper you cared to present. You have always failed and refused to attend, even the conference in Budapest. I don’t think that was to far from the Netherlands as two of your fellow countrywomen attended. I do not believe you are qualified to discuss what takes place in the IBMBS conferences.

As my work shows, and that of Richard Unger, Jennifer Hirsch and Ronelle Coburn and works going back to Noel Juaquin in the 1930's you are completely ignorant of what may be discovered from fingerprints and are not a qualified judge in the area. You really lack basic knowledge to be considered a serious hand researcher.

Statistics? When Mary Lai started her public work she had built up a data base of 10,000. It now exceeds 100,000. If you had attended her 2006 or 2010 conference you would have seen presentations of studies and statistics. Unfortunately, most of the information was in Chinese. Lysander Poon of GeneCode was at the 2010 conference and attended my class on fingerprints after the conference. The Asians are seriously studying together. They are not waiting for western academic validations Anyone can be capable of applying “scientific methods. The Chinese, and I believe the Indians, can put men and women in space.

Neither licensees administering the program nor consumers receiving the reports are facing investment[s] of a huge amount of money (varying from hundreds of dollars for a personalized report, up to thousands of dollars in order to become a franchisee). The normal license fee that Amida Biometrics is charging is $600.00 to use the software. The normal report costs at retail is geared to be competitive with the cost if a Brigg-Meyers report, about $150.00. Amida Biometrics does not intend to control what other charges its licensees may make for any additional services. We intend to go head to head with the most common aptitude assessment reports, CPL. MMPI and Briggs-Meyers. It is a competitive market out there. By the way, you mentioned you found no one able to get their money back. I do not see any of these three making money back offers if you don’t like their test results. Did you ever get a money back offer on an SAT test, or an MMPI, CPI or Briggs-Meyers assessment?

When you start attacking all people who look to fingerprints as correspondences for atributes to behavior, character and perhaps intelligence, you are not only attacking that terrible eastern DMIT, but those terrible western hand analists who find those correspondences in fingerprints, such as Unger, Hirsch, Coburn and myslef and all those back to Noel Jaquin, including those such as Fred Getttings, Beryl Hutchinson, Duke Alley (Elizabeth Peckman), Bevy C. Jaegers, and Paul Tseng. Sorry, but that is the long and short of it.

Hi Ed,
Thank you for sharing more detail about these new methods of potential human assessment.

I think there might be some miscommunication between you and Martijn. Although he can speak for himself here, from what I've read and recall from past posts, I thought Martijn disagreed with associating fingerprints with intelligence and/or IQ, and identifying the fingers to particular brain lobes. You do not seem to be defending or promoting that aspect of the DMIT and you even say you created a name for your program that more aptly describes your approach.

Handreadered wrote:

The program was first designed for child behavior, aptitude and teachable assessments, so that no child would be left behind but each could have the opportunity to realize his or her maximum potentials. Mary Lai, the Taiwanese pioneer working in the field for over a quarter of a century, said she liked to see the children before the age of two. This was because their brains are still so plastic and she could work to avoid many problems she had encountered with autistic, Asperger’s syndrome, and other children with apparent challenged learning or behavioral problems. Theoretically, when the scanning hardware is good enough, we could scan the new born’s hands (and feet) and provide aptitude reports when the mother checks out of the maternity ward. I will be working on this.

The area that I underlined and put in bold raises a lot of questions. If the brain is so pliable, or as you say - plastic, before the age of two, then there is a large possibility that the brain is being (and can be) rewired or programmed to match Mary's program.

Perhaps I've been reading too much about Agenda 21 and the New World Order plans but the thought of infants being precategorized using learning platforms (wired like robots without free choice/will) to be trained to become competent and compliant workers of the future - horrifies me.

Yes, it's good to recognize and bring out the best in each human, but the random serendipity and synchronicity of what the environment brings when 'uncontrolled and unmanipulated' could be phased out of human life and potential.

Lysander Poon of GeneCode studied under Mary Lai but he says his program does not strictly follow hers. Neither he nor Thumbrule use the foot prints. Lysander appeared to still be close to Mary when he attended her 2010 conference in Taipei and my class after the conference. Mary considers the foot prints important and I would like to add them in the future. I look forward to full body biometric analysis.

I understand copyrights would force variations in the programs and criteria different developers use, but I think it's important for there to be repetitive results. If developers evolve competitively in their own directions, and this program at its heart involves applying a system to the fingerprints - there could someday be completely conflicting reports. In other words, some could say a fingerprint pattern is extroverted and another would say it is introverted - and probably in truth it is neither as it may have nothing to do with introversion and extroversion.

I have my own program. I do not call it DMIT as I do not like the term. I have coined the more accurate term of Dermatoglyphic Biometric Aptitude Assessments (DBAA). I published my program for the first time a year ago in a class in Taipei after one of Mary's Lai's conferences and after I applied for patent protection. My book will detail it more thoroughly and I hope to publish that privately soon, possibly before the end of the year.

Congratulations on publishing your work, I remember when you were discussing your vision of this at the Handreading Cyber Cafe group a decade ago!!

Statistics? When Mary Lai started her public work she had built up a data base of 10,000. It now exceeds 100,000. If you had attended her 2006 or 2010 conference you would have seen presentations of studies and statistics. Unfortunately, most of the information was in Chinese. Lysander Poon of GeneCode was at the 2010 conference and attended my class on fingerprints after the conference. The Asians are seriously studying together. They are not waiting for western academic validations Anyone can be capable of applying “scientific methods. The Chinese, and I believe the Indians, can put men and women in space.

Ok, now this is no excuse! (in bold above)

With all the accusations of this being a scam or pseudo-science, and without statistics, without published studies showing comparisons of controls compared to program results, it would seem reasonable that someone would have been able to translate relevant excerpts from her work to counteract the attacks.

If this program has only been used on children since 2006, they wouldn't yet have adult test cases to see how they as children were affected as only a few years have gone by since then.

Ed, I think you know that I support the concept that the fingerprints have relevance in human consciousness as the paper that I presented showed information from various published research studies illustrating the nature of the dermatoglyphics relationship to the developing nervous system.

So I hope you know I'm not attacking the concept or theories, but have the questions and concerns as outlined above. When I received your emailed invitation to be a part of the initial take off of your program I felt very honored to be asked. But, after considering it for a while, I felt I needed to wait until the program was out there for some time and I had a chance to personally study results before I could actually be able to market it myself.

Martjin, You said: “This system is very similar in way to Richard Unger’s system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglyphics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people’s self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.” You could also make the same remarks about my work, that of Jennifer Hirsch, Ronelle Coburn and works going back to Noel Jaquin in the 1930's . You basically call us all liars or stupid. The fact is you consistently demonstrate through such disparaging remarks about the legitimacy of all dermatoglyphic and palmistry work, your real feeling of contempt for this work and everyone involved in it. You have said that the entire literary history by palmistry and hand analysis is useless and those of us who have contributed to it have conspired to commit fraud or mislead the public..

The quote you gave of Sillybelieves.com shows total ignorance. I have no high regard for IQ as it tends focus on narrow matters. The statement on talents is baseless and refuted by centuries of hand analysis and the basis of western hand analysis. But that is unscientific and I suppose you would not use that just like you probably do not use the unscientifically approved aspirin. I don't believe it has ever met the FDA requierments.

I also do not hold with the theories of ties between lobes of the brain though I have found credible evidence of possible lesions in the brain stem from broke prints. I happen to use a good deal more of the hand to understand possible enate abilities, but I can derive some enate characteristics of people from the ridge patterns of the fingerprints.

I do believe that our work, applied to children, has proven in Taiwan and other places, to improve their chances. Suicide is not unknown and is endemic in many parts of the world, as studies in rural India on failing farmers has shown. When the child’s future is narrowly focused and he or she may fail in meeting entry into that focused goal, that child can see no future and suicide is the only option left as he can't feed himself or help support his family. Martjin, you speak without knowing the culture where these programs are offered. You are trying to impose your ideas of morality on cultures you do not even belong to.

As far as the history of “scientific dermatoglyphics” goes it has suffered from great ignorance. Many of its researchers seem to have accepted that all patterns of the same kind, have the same meaning and weight, no matter on what finger they are found. This was a ridiculous assumption to begin with but the arrogance of the western scientists in their disdain for the arts of palmistry made them fail to see that each finger and each hand had separate meanings. So much of the “scientific dermatoglyphics” in the twentieth century is junk science. Cummins and Midlo had fun quoting the Chines proverb of counting whorls to determine character and fell into the same trap. It helps to understand how carpenters and masons did things before you design a new form of building.

As far as history goes, I would not be surprised if we in the West have not made a few errors in Asian history. I am not looking for perfection but for useful knowledge. What we do today with the DMIT of DBAA as I call it, will lay the groundwork for the future, groundwork that has been largely not laid and unappreciated in the academic west. This is not the case in the East where I have been invited into and shared at their highest academic conferences in the field.

Finally, you mention that “independent research requires a proper state of mind - e.g. without being bordered by unwanted financial consequences, etc.” Tell that to General Electric, or General Dynamics, or Daimler Benz, or your chemical companies such as Akzo Nobel/Imperial Chemical Industries (ICI), your software developers, pharmaceutical and medical device companies. How is all their scientific research supported? See how far your pencil would have been replaced by a computer with your current naive outlook That is blind elitism.

Handreadered wrote:Martjin, You said: “This system is very similar in way to Richard Unger’s system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglyphics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people’s self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.” You could also make the same remarks about my work, that of Jennifer Hirsch, Ronelle Coburn and works going back to Noel Jaquin in the 1930's . You basically call us all liars or stupid. The fact is you consistently demonstrate through such disparaging remarks about the legitimacy of all dermatoglyphic and palmistry work, your real feeling of contempt for this work and everyone involved in it. You have said that the entire literary history by palmistry and hand analysis is useless and those of us who have contributed to it have conspired to commit fraud or mislead the public..

Yes you have quoted from my post.

I don't think any of the authors you list mention statistics, but some do mention their vast collections of prints or images. So they could have if statistics were an interest to them.

If you take a look at Richard Unger's Life Prints page 277-278, you will see although he writes respectfully of Jaquin's and other's work and contributions, but has a lot of criticism for their methods and interpretations.

Bruce Lipton in his book The Biology of Belief writes about how pharmaceutical companies now have developed tests to weed out the huge portion of people who are easily susceptible to the placebo effect. It seems that about 50% of the population is involved. Therefore tests done could frequently show at least a 50% success rate when there is really no effect at all. The power of belief.

I'm not criticizing these developers of palmistry systems. I just have one of those minds that likes to look at charts of data. I am forever telling people that have a radial loop on the index that it's found in about 25% of the population and a whorl or arch on the little finger is quite rare as compared to a loop. Some people like hearing they have something in common with others or that they have a unique or rarely seen feature.

Martijn (admin) wrote:

Handreadered wrote:Martjin, You said: “This system is very similar in way to Richard Unger’s system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglyphics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people’s self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.”

You could also make the same remarks about my work, that of Jennifer Hirsch, Ronelle Coburn and works going back to Noel Jaquin in the 1930's . You basically call us all liars or stupid. The fact is you consistently demonstrate through such disparaging remarks about the legitimacy of all dermatoglyphic and palmistry work, your real feeling of contempt for this work and everyone involved in it. You have said that the entire literary history by palmistry and hand analysis is useless and those of us who have contributed to it have conspired to commit fraud or mislead the public..

Dear Ed, you've made a terrible mistake here, because you have quoted words that were written by Patti ... not me, see her post from last saturday:
https://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t431p45-thumbrule-dmit-iq-test-does-intelligence-correlate-with-fingerprints-dermatoglyphics#14091

PS. Ed, are you sure that the thoughts that you shared here (and in your earlier post)... were caused by MY words???

Martijn (admin) wrote:

Patti wrote:"The proof of the pudding is in the eating."

I have been studying some of the materials involved in marketing this concept and have hesitated to get more involved because there are no results of success. The field is too new.

At the same time, I am watching it with great interest. This system is very similar in a way to Richard Unger's system in that it consists of concepts about dermatoglypics that have yet to be proven. There are no statistics other than people's self reports. I would imagine the placebo effect (which a large portion of the human population is sensitive to) accounts for a large number of clients pleased with the results.

Hopefully, in the coming years as these systems are used by more people, the developers (or competitors) could provide data to support (or discredit) their claims.

This is where my interest lies - results.

Perhaps the cries of fraud and lack of scientific evidence will help to inspire these developers to provide credible evidence to support their claims. So to that end, I would not wish to discourage these systems to be actively used.

Hi Patti,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about this topic.

Yes, I understand the things you mention - though you are right about that there is no validation, the developers & francisees certainly do make claims in that direction at their websites.

PS. The quote you mentioned, I have heard Ed using those words as well - but I wonder whether such verbal rethorics are justified. Because when one starts thinking about those words... one could wonder whether accepting the suggestion "eating is the proof of the pudding" might actually have a side-effect: because in any perspective these words can be perceived as a suggestive FIRST STEP in order to get people involved with ANY product/method.

So, even those words could result from a desire to get people involved.
Additionally, independend research requires a proper state of mind - e.g. without being bordered by unwanted financial consequences, etc..

Martijn, it seemed you were in agreement with my thoughts about the lack of statistics...?

Sorry for the misquote. Probably does not matter as I don't hink ayone is paying much attention to us anyway.

Ed

Handreadered wrote:Sorry for the misquote. Probably does not matter as I don't hink ayone is paying much attention to us anyway.

Ed

I think there's more interest in this topic than you realize.

Handreadered wrote:Sorry for the misquote. Probably does not matter as I don't hink ayone is paying much attention to us anyway.

Ed

Hello Mr Campbell.
What are you talking about? What a statement!. So you are saying this is a forum where people do not pay attention. Of course we do. We are all very serious about learning anything to do with palmistry therefore we read every post.
I bought your book and the first thing that put me off was the print was too small. However, I proceeded, thinking the book, reading with a magnifying glass, might be prove informative. Well I was disappointed to say the least, but in saying that I only scanned it , as it just did not get my interest.Maybe your negative vibes came through.
I don't know where the field of palmistry has taken you, but, assuming you came from the stages of learning like everybody else, you have definitely lost touch
Hope you find your way back and remember how to communicate with those you now seem to think of as inferior thinkers.
Mrs Jeanette Elder.

P.S. Never trust a Campbell. I have edited this and just want so say I don't expect a reply, as I think, you will think I don't merit one.