raja loop + interdigital whorls + unidentified print on thenar - how to read these?

Hi dermo experts - here is another interesting hand of a friend of mine! He is a rather unique individual, kitesurfing and windsurfing instructor (Patti, if you're reading this, google kitesurfing videos - even more crazy-looking sport than windsurfing ), and currently going through the application process of becoming a pilot in the airforce. As he has well-developed Raja loops in both hands, I have re-assured him that he should have the necessary leadership qualities required for a career in the airforce. What confuses me are the interdigital whorls and the patterns on the thenars.

1) The whorl in the humour loop area I have seen described as relating to sarcasm, but my friend has not a sarcastic bone in his body. Any other interpretations?

2) Also there seems to be an extra loop of humour sticking to the whorl in the left hand. How could we interpret this?

3) The ID whorl in the left hand seriousness area is actually shifted to sit nearly in the centre of the Apollo mount. Would that change the interpretation to something having to do more with luck, success, etc?

4) The thenar area is unclear to me - looks like loops of courage and music?

5) Just FYI his fingerprints are:
Right thumb ---> pinkie
Double loop whorl u. loop whorl whorl

Left thumb ---> pinkie
Double loop double loop u. loop peacock u. loop


Thanks in advance for your input!



left hand: raja loop and both interdigital whorls


left hand: close up of tiny loop next to ID whorl


left hand: thenar pattern?


right hand: raja loop, ID whorl, loop of seriousness


right hand: close up


right hand: thenar pattern

hi,
These are the exact markings I would expect to see on such an outgoing energetic person. In all the people I have know with the loop of humour, they do have a sense of humour (not necessarily sarcasm) and the main thing I noticed is that their love for life and fun can come before work, or that their job or career in life is something that they really love to do, nothing boring or menial for these types!

Wow Kiwi! Do you have his fingerprints, too?

Hi Sari and Patti, thanks for your quick replies!
Sari - so you wouldn't make a difference between Whorl of humour and loop of humour? Just more intense?
Patti, no I didn't take photos of his prints as they were pretty much picture book examples, had no problems identifying them. The only print where I wondered a bit was the double loop on his index, because of the location. But with double loops on both thumbs too, I guess not that unusual...

Thanks Kiwi! Another question, is he Jewish?

When there are two interdigital loops between the ring and little fingers, the one that tends to be closer to the ring finger (often bending under it) is referred to as relating to self-consciousness.

I would give a greater significance to the whorls vs. loops when found in the palms. Plus having so many complex patterns including what you said about the fingerprints would add the intensities. The patterns on the thenar mount can add to rhythm and timing - so I imagine he becomes 'one with' the energy of his sport.

The whorls could intensify his focus and concentration, as well.

Hmmm, not sure if he's Jewish, certainly not practising. I'll find out!

Very interesting about the second loop relating to self-consciousness - just like the sarcasm interpretation for the whorl that I read somewhere, this doesn't seem to fit at all. He's possibly the least self-concious person I know, often reminds me of a child at play and doesn't mind making a fool of himself in front of others.

Thank you for your comments about the palmar whorls, makes a lot of sense (more intensity rather than a different meaning), and the patterns on the thenar mount. I hadn't thought of rhythm and timing applying to sports, but you're so right. And yes, he does look like he becomes 'one with' his toys.

Cheers

kiwihands wrote:Hi Sari and Patti, thanks for your quick replies!
Sari - so you wouldn't make a difference between Whorl of humour and loop of humour? Just more intense?

I would say more intense, in the sense that he really gets enjoyment out of his hobbies and his hobbies are not quiet ones like stamp collecting..

But Richard Unger describes this whorl as part of life purpose being a 'heavily reluctant communicator' and it apparently slows down the expected life experience for the life purpose. I think what he means is that he will reach his ideal goals later in life than he would like, but of course this would be balanced by all his other indicators..

Thanks for your response Sari! I have to say, I'm so impressed by the way you make time to reply to each and every post on this forum ... so much energy. Thank you!


I'll have to think about Unger's description - seems to apply one one way but not another.
While this guy has no problems whatsoever with communication, it appears that he is reaching his ideal goals later in life than he would have liked. His dad and granddad having been in the Airforce, it was always his dream to be a pilot too, but was told he couldn't because of an ear problem when he was a child. Only now at the age of 30 has he had a second opinion and is finally going for it. So definitely a huge delay, but nothing to do with communication.

Kiwi said.. just like the sarcasm interpretation for the whorl that I read somewhere, this doesn't seem to fit at all.

My partner has the loop of seriousness and the loop of humour and our favorite thing to joke about is people's foibles. He's not sarcastic but will laugh at the most inopportune moments. I see it as seeing the absurdity in people's emotional hang-ups and nuances.
I would be interested in seeing his (the palm owner's) parents hands to see if they have similar markings. No pressure, just a comment.

zeblethai wrote:He's not sarcastic but will laugh at the most inopportune moments. I see it as seeing the absurdity in people's emotional hang-ups and nuances.

What an interesting comment Zeblethai! That's so funny, my friend also does this all the time. Laughing at inopportune moments and seeing the absurdity in people's hang-ups. There's nothing malicious in it (like there would be in sarcasm), but thinking about it - if the author of the book where I read this had, say, a vanity loop, I could see that it may come across as intending to wound. Cool, you solved the mystery!

Kiwihands said...What an interesting comment Zeblethai! That's so funny, my friend also does this all the time. Laughing at inopportune moments and seeing the absurdity in people's hang-ups. There's nothing malicious in it (like there would be in sarcasm), but thinking about it - if the author of the book where I read this had, say, a vanity loop, I could see that it may come across as intending to wound. Cool, you solved the mystery!

You are so right, Kiwihands, a Vanity loop would cause someone to look at his sense of humour from a different perspective.
I said earlier..

I would be interested in seeing his (the palm owner's) parents hands to see if they have similar markings

I would like to see his parents hands because my son and daughter both have these loops. My son, who is two, will laugh right in my face when I'm trying to tell him to stop doing something. It lightens my mood instantly. I wonder if his parents have similar markings because (as we all know we should do) looking to our parents in how to navigate our own personality and choices would help someone greatly. Sometimes we don't believe we're anything like our parents until we see it in their palms.

Ooops, sorry I overlooked that question. His parents are on the other side of the globe, so might not be easy to get their hands, but I'll ask him.

I fully agree with you regarding "Sometimes we don't believe we're anything like our parents until we see it in their palms." I recently got my parents to send me their palm pics and was astounded by how much we actually share. As you say, I understand them and myself a lot better now. Yay!

Kiwihands said.. I fully agree with you regarding "Sometimes we don't believe we're anything like our parents until we see it in their palms." I recently got my parents to send me their palm pics and was astounded by how much we actually share. As you say, I understand them and myself a lot better now. Yay!

We'll end up making the same mistakes (mistakes being a subjective judgement of course) as our parents did if we don't learn from them.
Sakyong Mipham says "Big mind conquers small mind". I think this relates to learning from our parents. If we have the knowledge of how their brain/mind/heart works then we can accept and love them regardless of whether or not they have a big or small mind. Small mind blames and puts down others but Big mind understands why they do this. That is why Palm reading is SO beneficial to others and ourselves (to point out the obvious).
I haven't looked at my fathers palm but I can almost guarantee that he has a low set finger of Mercury like myself I think he must have the loop of humour as well.

Well said Zeblethai!

kiwihands wrote:
Very interesting about the second loop relating to self-consciousness - just like the sarcasm interpretation for the whorl that I read somewhere, this doesn't seem to fit at all. He's possibly the least self-concious person I know, often reminds me of a child at play and doesn't mind making a fool of himself in front of others.

Hi Kiwi,
I had planned on responding to your comment a couple of days ago and then when the thread disappeared from the scrolling latest topics I forgot until just now.

When I describe self-consciousness or conscientiousness in regards to this loop between the ring and little fingers that slants under the ring, I tend to continue to describe it as a self awareness, and use one example of that feeling one gets in the back of their heads when they know someone behind them is staring at them. Maybe another way is to say they have good conscious communication with subconscious senses.

In some people with insecurities this self-consciousness can be described as embarrassment about themselves and nervous energy like fidgeting and nailbiting. In others that are more confident, it can add a heightened sense of one's environment and their physical, mental and emotional responses to that environment.

What reminded me about this conversation, I was just sitting under a shady tree in my backyard wading my way through Bruce Lipton's The Biology of Belief (which I think you said you've read) and came across this paragraph:

"Through self-consciousness, the mind can use the brain to generate "molecules of emotion" and override the system. While proper use of consciousness can bring health to an ailing body, inappropriate unconscious control of emotions can easily make a healthy body diseased, ..."

In Lipton's words (who was inspired by Candace Pert's Molecules of Emotion) I found support and confirmation to how I view this particular hand feature.

I think it can be applied to your friend in regards to his keen sense of self awareness in a multitude of ways, simultaneously, to become one with his environment (kite-surfing).

p.s.:
An afterthought...
This slanted loop pattern flows generally in the same location and general angle as the Passion line or part of the Girdle of Venus. These crease features already show a desire for physical pleasure and sensations. This might give more insight into the 'emotional/physical' response i.e. embarrassment, awkwardness to some and to others the thrill of being in front of an audience brings them fully alive and ready to perform.

Patti wrote: When I describe self-consciousness or conscientiousness in regards to this loop between the ring and little fingers that slants under the ring, I tend to continue to describe it as a self awareness, and use one example of that feeling one gets in the back of their heads when they know someone behind them is staring at them. Maybe another way is to say they have good conscious communication with subconscious senses.

In some people with insecurities this self-consciousness can be described as embarrassment about themselves and nervous energy like fidgeting and nailbiting. In others that are more confident, it can add a heightened sense of one's environment and their physical, mental and emotional responses to that environment.

Thank you for your explanation Patti! This makes sense now ... sorry I misunderstood you before. Your examples are great! Another bit for my collection of things-not-to-be-found-in-books, teehee.

Patti wrote:What reminded me about this conversation, I was just sitting under a shady tree in my backyard wading my way through Bruce Lipton's The Biology of Belief (which I think you said you've read) and came across this paragraph:

"Through self-consciousness, the mind can use the brain to generate "molecules of emotion" and override the system. While proper use of consciousness can bring health to an ailing body, inappropriate unconscious control of emotions can easily make a healthy body diseased, ..."

In Lipton's words (who was inspired by Candace Pert's Molecules of Emotion) I found support and confirmation to how I view this particular hand feature.

Excellent quote, and I agree! Btw, I have just started reading Lipton's new book "Spontaneous Evolution" and it made me think of you. Its premise reminded me of one of the topics you started on your own forum, "Have we as humans, reached our fullest potential or are we still evolving?" I'm sure you'd love this new book, too. Did you read Pert's "Molecules of Emotion"? I bought it after reading Lipton and have to admit it didn't live up to my expectations. Anyhow - this is off topic!

Patti wrote:I think it can be applied to your friend in regards to his keen sense of self awareness in a multitude of ways, simultaneously, to become one with his environment (kite-surfing).

Yes, absolutely. I love this interpretation, Patti, also because I have those same slanting loops. In some books I have seen them related to "Vanity Loops", though in others they are located further up on the ring finger. This triggered a fair bit of introspection for me ...

Your view fits a lot better. I have a lot of self-awareness in the way you described, always know when someone is looking at me (even if it's an animal ), and have been told that when I ride my mountain bike through crowds of people it looks like magic, or Moses parting the Red Sea! But I just know where a gap in going to open up for a moment and I don't hesitate because I can kind of feel how I fit in with the dynamics of the crowd. It's heaps of fun.

Patti wrote: This slanted loop pattern flows generally in the same location and general angle as the Passion line or part of the Girdle of Venus. These crease features already show a desire for physical pleasure and sensations. This might give more insight into the 'emotional/physical' response i.e. embarrassment, awkwardness to some and to others the thrill of being in front of an audience brings them fully alive and ready to perform.

How fascinating. I have been watching a Passion line grow next to my loops for the last year or so. Didn't know much about that one either, so your comments are really valuable.


Thank you!

Ps. I did finally remember to ask my friend about any Jewish ancestry, and the answer was no.

kiwihands wrote:Hi dermo experts - here is another interesting hand of a friend of mine! He is a rather unique individual, kitesurfing and windsurfing instructor (Patti, if you're reading this, google kitesurfing videos - even more crazy-looking sport than windsurfing ), and currently going through the application process of becoming a pilot in the airforce. As he has well-developed Raja loops in both hands, I have re-assured him that he should have the necessary leadership qualities required for a career in the airforce. What confuses me are the interdigital whorls and the patterns on the thenars.

Looking back at your original post, it's interesting how you have shown us such a small section of the hands and how we have chosen to apply them to his personality and behavior. My attention is called to the aspect of 'flying' and the sensation of flying, having one's feet off the ground and a need to be 'in the driver's seat' or not. The areas I read relating to these aspects are not shown in the photographs you've uploaded and I don't think any of us made any references to his love of flying. Rather we've discussed his bodily sensations and abilities to feel out his environment and coordinate that with the needs of his sport.

kiwihands wrote:

3) The ID whorl in the left hand seriousness area is actually shifted to sit nearly in the centre of the Apollo mount. Would that change the interpretation to something having to do more with luck, success, etc?


5) Just FYI his fingerprints are:
Right thumb ---> pinkie
Double loop whorl u. loop whorl whorl

Left thumb ---> pinkie
Double loop double loop u. loop peacock u. loop

The loop that is often called 'seriousness', I refer to as a mark of 'sense of duty, responsibility and a strong conscience'. When it leans closer to the ring finger, I think it moves this energy more toward oneself. They feel even more guilty when they let themselves down than when they let others down.

kiwihands wrote:

Patti wrote: When I describe self-consciousness or conscientiousness in regards to this loop between the ring and little fingers that slants under the ring, I tend to continue to describe it as a self awareness, and use one example of that feeling one gets in the back of their heads when they know someone behind them is staring at them. Maybe another way is to say they have good conscious communication with subconscious senses.

In some people with insecurities this self-consciousness can be described as embarrassment about themselves and nervous energy like fidgeting and nailbiting. In others that are more confident, it can add a heightened sense of one's environment and their physical, mental and emotional responses to that environment.

Thank you for your explanation Patti! This makes sense now ... sorry I misunderstood you before. Your examples are great! Another bit for my collection of things-not-to-be-found-in-books, teehee.

Patti wrote:What reminded me about this conversation, I was just sitting under a shady tree in my backyard wading my way through Bruce Lipton's The Biology of Belief (which I think you said you've read) and came across this paragraph:

"Through self-consciousness, the mind can use the brain to generate "molecules of emotion" and override the system. While proper use of consciousness can bring health to an ailing body, inappropriate unconscious control of emotions can easily make a healthy body diseased, ..."

In Lipton's words (who was inspired by Candace Pert's Molecules of Emotion) I found support and confirmation to how I view this particular hand feature.

Excellent quote, and I agree! Btw, I have just started reading Lipton's new book "Spontaneous Evolution" and it made me think of you. Its premise reminded me of one of the topics you started on your own forum, "Have we as humans, reached our fullest potential or are we still evolving?" I'm sure you'd love this new book, too. Did you read Pert's "Molecules of Emotion"? I bought it after reading Lipton and have to admit it didn't live up to my expectations. Anyhow - this is off topic!

Patti wrote:I think it can be applied to your friend in regards to his keen sense of self awareness in a multitude of ways, simultaneously, to become one with his environment (kite-surfing).

Yes, absolutely. I love this interpretation, Patti, also because I have those same slanting loops. In some books I have seen them related to "Vanity Loops", though in others they are located further up on the ring finger. This triggered a fair bit of introspection for me ...

Your view fits a lot better. I have a lot of self-awareness in the way you described, always know when someone is looking at me (even if it's an animal ), and have been told that when I ride my mountain bike through crowds of people it looks like magic, or Moses parting the Red Sea! But I just know where a gap in going to open up for a moment and I don't hesitate because I can kind of feel how I fit in with the dynamics of the crowd. It's heaps of fun.

Patti wrote: This slanted loop pattern flows generally in the same location and general angle as the Passion line or part of the Girdle of Venus. These crease features already show a desire for physical pleasure and sensations. This might give more insight into the 'emotional/physical' response i.e. embarrassment, awkwardness to some and to others the thrill of being in front of an audience brings them fully alive and ready to perform.

How fascinating. I have been watching a Passion line grow next to my loops for the last year or so. Didn't know much about that one either, so your comments are really valuable.


Thank you!

Ps. I did finally remember to ask my friend about any Jewish ancestry, and the answer was no.

Thanks for your feedback Kiwi!
I've noticed over the years that when I'm reading the crowds at Bar and Bat Mitzvahs these groups are filled with palms that are busy with palmar loops, whorls and other not so commonly seen patterns.

In my article I wrote about the trend to label gifted children (including as well ADD, ADHD, Aspergers and other forms of Autism) as "an Indigo child"

Recently I read a woman (late 40's) who I had met several weeks earlier in a work/social setting and had the opportunity to observe her and how she interacts before I had an opportunity to read her. She'd be the least likely for you to glance at and say - yep she's an advanced and evolved individual. More likely you'd think a geek and work a holic without too much concern for style or fashion.

Reading her hands, I found she had a number of unique features including the radial peacocks on both thumbs. I told her about my thoughts of human evolution and the trend for some people to be labeled Indigos. She immediately said she had read a book about it several years ago and decided then she was an Indigo. She shared with me impressive projects she's been working on in private for years with the hope to someday publish her work.

Oops - now I'm off topic too!

But to bring it back - I think that the rarer patterns found in the palms and fingerprints can relate to human evolution. Sometimes the combinations represent an abnormality that lessens human function and other times the combination may be just the right thing to allow the advancement of the human species.

I can imagine the liquid lightning effect of you gliding through the crowd effortlessly. There was a time I could do that on roller blades - even 'step' over a large snake sunning itself on the bike trail without slowing down (slowing down didn't seem wise). I think it all involves that awareness of one's entire body and motion in regards to the living, moving environment. I love watching runners run like in the movie "Chariots of Fire" or films of animals running on the serengeti - especially large cats.

p.s. Thanks for mentioning the new book! I think I saw it listed on Amazon. My pile of books to read is growing. "The Field" by Lynne McTaggart is next in my stack to finish.

Thanks for your interesting reply Patti! It's a fascinating thought regarding the prevalence of uncommon palmar whorls and other patterns in Jewish people. I don't know any myself, but it makes me wonder whether it's somehow got to do with their history, creating more "intense" people, or that the ones we'd get to meet would all be from families of migrants who had to face big challenges, survivor types. Hmmm ... this is might be a new topic. Would love to hear your thoughts!

Your comment about this woman reminded me of another question I was going to ask.

Recently I read a woman (late 40's) who I had met several weeks earlier in a work/social setting and had the opportunity to observe her and how she interacts before I had an opportunity to read her. She'd be the least likely for you to glance at and say - yep she's an advanced and evolved individual. More likely you'd think a geek and work a holic without too much concern for style or fashion.

Reading her hands, I found she had a number of unique features including the radial peacocks on both thumbs. I told her about my thoughts of human evolution and the trend for some people to be labeled Indigos. She immediately said she had read a book about it several years ago and decided then she was an Indigo. She shared with me impressive projects she's been working on in private for years with the hope to someday publish her work.

My mum has radial peacocks on both thumbs, and another radial peacock on her right index. All other prints are ulnar loops. I found info on the index, which fits very well, but all I could get on the thumb was "royal fanfare". No idea what this could be all about. She wouldn't consider herself an Indigo, though, I doubt she's even heard of the concept.

Yes, too many books, too little time ... but I've just added "The Field" to my list; the reading samples on amazon sound brilliant. Thanks! I'm always grateful for recommendations.

And - wow - a snake you had to step over while rollerblading! How exciting. We don't get snakes here, NZ is quite boring when it comes to dangerous animals...

Cheers

Hello pattti, kiwi

the interesting thingh which i have found aboout palmar and especially seriosuness loop is based on siemens paper on jewish and non jewsih people compariosn where he has mentioned about the difference in palmar prints especially seriousness loop being most signiifcant to jews and belongs to them, i remember sending you that paper.
also an interesting thingh this pattern is also found on brahmins of india (from my own personal observation) an interetsing correlations, these brahmins also were threads like jews.
also the anga tribe (kukukuku) of new guinea also have this seriousness loop and high interdigital loop pattern.

I apprecicate ur comments
anand

anand_palm wrote:Hello pattti, kiwi

the interesting thingh which i have found aboout palmar and especially seriosuness loop is based on siemens paper on jewish and non jewsih people compariosn where he has mentioned about the difference in palmar prints especially seriousness loop being most signiifcant to jews and belongs to them, i remember sending you that paper.
also an interesting thingh this pattern is also found on brahmins of india (from my own personal observation) an interetsing correlations, these brahmins also were threads like jews.
also the anga tribe (kukukuku) of new guinea also have this seriousness loop and high interdigital loop pattern.

I apprecicate ur comments
anand

Hi Anand,
From my observations, people with a number of dermatoglyphic patterns in their palms as compared to people with one or none, are more mentally, physically or emotionally energetic. I think the positive to negative qualities are relative to the strength and weaknesses in the rest of the hand. A person must be capable of handling a higher or more intense level of physical, mental and emotional expression.

My personal opinion of these more complex patterns is that they are comparable to the raised paw pads in animals. They send data back to the brain and throughout the nervous system details about their environment. This would include temperature, location and position, vibration, texture and more. I think the patterns represent increased sensitivity to the environment.

Wondering about why different races have more or less patterns is fascinating and brings in questions about both evolution and intelligent design.

At one time the dermatoglyphic patterns were looked at in regards to eugenics. Researchers found that the patterns were too widespread across the races to be useful for eliminating what they may have deemed as undesirable.

Hello Patti

Vow great details and observations, thank for the information. somehow palmar patterns seem to follow a pattern and can be classified as races, like most of the population lands up into either having no loops, seriousness loop+loop of humor or seriousennss loop alone or raja loop+seriuosness+humor loop or other loops such as moon loop or venus loop or mars loop occasionally, however there seems to be lot of variation in fingerprint pattern within various races. iam able to understand from what you have mentioned these palmar loops are for energy levels, can u please let me know about what energy levels do fingerprints siginify from your observation. because this makes thinghs and interprattion interesting.

also regarding brahmins they were usually employed as temple priest during ancient periods.

also i have attached a famous person hand and i have marked a red circle which indicates loop from saturn to mercury and other from appollo to mercury, do u think this pattern is similar to seriousness loop except that there is a shift in pattern to mercury.

i appreciate your comments



thanks
anand

hello patti

Thanks

thanks
anand

anand_palm wrote:hello patti
sorry i forgot to post the url

https://i.servimg.com/u/f44/16/84/41/72/handre10.jpg

thanks
anand

Hi Anand,
I'm unable to clearly see the details inside the circle, but since you described it as a loop that is made from ridges that are from each side of the ring finger, I think it is a 'tented arch' pattern under the ring finger. I have this on both hands. I have found it to be a common feature on the hands of teachers or people who like to teach.

kiwihands wrote:Thanks for your interesting reply Patti! It's a fascinating thought regarding the prevalence of uncommon palmar whorls and other patterns in Jewish people. I don't know any myself, but it makes me wonder whether it's somehow got to do with their history, creating more "intense" people, or that the ones we'd get to meet would all be from families of migrants who had to face big challenges, survivor types. Hmmm ... this is might be a new topic. Would love to hear your thoughts!

Your comment about this woman reminded me of another question I was going to ask.

Recently I read a woman (late 40's) who I had met several weeks earlier in a work/social setting and had the opportunity to observe her and how she interacts before I had an opportunity to read her. She'd be the least likely for you to glance at and say - yep she's an advanced and evolved individual. More likely you'd think a geek and work a holic without too much concern for style or fashion.

Reading her hands, I found she had a number of unique features including the radial peacocks on both thumbs. I told her about my thoughts of human evolution and the trend for some people to be labeled Indigos. She immediately said she had read a book about it several years ago and decided then she was an Indigo. She shared with me impressive projects she's been working on in private for years with the hope to someday publish her work.

My mum has radial peacocks on both thumbs, and another radial peacock on her right index. All other prints are ulnar loops. I found info on the index, which fits very well, but all I could get on the thumb was "royal fanfare". No idea what this could be all about. She wouldn't consider herself an Indigo, though, I doubt she's even heard of the concept.

Yes, too many books, too little time ... but I've just added "The Field" to my list; the reading samples on amazon sound brilliant. Thanks! I'm always grateful for recommendations.

And - wow - a snake you had to step over while rollerblading! How exciting. We don't get snakes here, NZ is quite boring when it comes to dangerous animals...

Cheers

Thanks Kiwi! That is so cool your mom has radial peacocks on both her thumbs. Do you think you can recognize any particular unique qualities about her that you would attribute to these patterns? (she created not so typical offspring )