Is there an ideal fingerprint

**Roberta** Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:53 pm

Patti- I ordered the Squires book on Amazon yesterday. Thanks so much!!

Lynn- Obsession is my middle name! And thanks for your reply to Parender. Thanks bunches!!

Cheers to my friends, happy yel

Roberta

**jeanette** Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:40 pm

Hi Patti,
I have ordered the Squires book today and thanks for telling us about it.
Jeanette.

**Martijn (admin)** Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:25 am

Lynn wrote:Thanks Patti, I 've never seen Elizabeth Daniels Squire's book, but ordered a used copy from Amazon associates last night. BUT only after I placed the order did I notice that I've bought " Fortune in Your Hand" instead of "The New Fortune in Your Hand" We'll have to compare notes when it arrives, to see if it is a re-print of the same book or whether I ordered the wrong one!

Lynn, have you considered cancelling the order - and then to order the right title?

**Martijn (admin)** Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:04 am

jeanette wrote:I am wondering. You know how there are descriptions for all the lines saying what is the ideal way to have them, eg the heart line which curves between the first two fingers and the others have descriptions of the way they ideally should be. Is there the ideal fingerprint type. Are loops the way they should be. Thanks,
Jeanette.

Hi Jeanette,

Patti, Lynn & Parender have mentioned various interesting considerations regarding how to recognize an 'ideal' fingerprint.

But my answer would to focuss first on the 'minor characteristics' of an individual fingerprint, which relate to the formation of the ridge lines. A triradius where the ridge lines create a beautiful little triangle is one of the 'ideal' characteristics, and it is also important to look for if the individual ridge lines continue to follow their path. For example, many ending ridge lines and/or splittings (a.k.a. 'bifurcations') are less preferable. And for example in 'whorl-pattern': a 'spiral whorl' with two symmetric positioned triradii can be considered as a 'balanced' characteristic (for arches & tented arches the symmetry is also a significant aspect; loops require other aspects to be considered because they have a natural tendency towards asymmetry).

So, in general regarding the individual fingerprints one can say that an 'ideal' fingerprint at least should hardly show any minor irregularities in the ridge lines, and regarding the pattern formation symmetry is preferable (though this does not apply to the 'loop').

Because these characteristics indicates that during the formation of the 'fingerprint pattern' the processes in the finger developed in a stable, harmonious sequence (this relates to the topic mentioned by Patti: the prenatal development of the fingerprint).

But Parender also mentioned an interesting aspect: the 10 fingerprints should better not show 10 exactly the same pattern: in science this phenomenon is a.k.a. as 'monomorphic hands'. Because studies have revealed 'monomorphic hands' are more often seen among populations that suffer on medical problems (10 loops are often seen in Down syndrome, 10 arches are often seen in Edward's syndrome & Patau's syndrome, and 10 whorls are often seen in Williams-Beuren syndrome).

But one should also be aware that more than 10% of the general population have 'monomorphic hands'!! - So one really has to consider also the minor characteristics of the individual fingerprints + other hand characteristics in order draw any conclusions regarding the intelligence or other biological issues.

A few of the issues that I mentioned out, are featured with visual details in the following video:

**Lynn** Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:37 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:Lynn, have you considered cancelling the order - and then to order the right title?

er... nope! never entered my head! " Fortune in Your Hand" arrived today. So far I didn't find anything about hand development information.... guess I bought the wrong book!
Tho the postage cost more than the book, so only a small investment!

Patti Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:54 pm

I think both titles are the same book. I did have 3 copies but sent one to Sari. My original paperback and the hardcopy I kept.

It's a really good book to have. It was especially good at the time. It was my starter book in my teens.

The chapter on fingerprints in the back is what I was talking about. When you read it you can tell she is giving you information from Charlotte Wolff on the whorls found on the palm. Interestingly mentioning that Cummins and Midlo say they are like a primal ancestral genetic flashback.

Since most of the books on palmistry discuss how to identify the lines and patterns and what they mean, so few have an interest in developmental and classification rules. To go into how these lines and patterns got there has to fit their personal theology and philosophy. If God stamped upon every man's hand, so that he may know their work, that would come into play. Of course, I saw God's hand in man's hand at the cellular level, in the mesenchyme, so it works for me. But others see it through their own lens.

http://labs.fhcrc.org/parkhurst/pdfs/Sun2002.pdf

"A fundamental question in developmental biology is how structures
of various sizes and shapes are formed. The vertebrate limb has long
been considered an excellent model system for addressing this
question. The challenge has been to understand how a simple
embryonic bud, containing morphologically homogeneous
mesenchymal cells and a covering epithelium, develops into an
organ that contains numerous elements with diverse forms."

**Lynn** Sun Mar 06, 2011 5:29 pm

Patti wrote:I think both titles are the same book.
.............
The chapter on fingerprints in the back is what I was talking about. When you read it you can tell she is giving you information from Charlotte Wolff on the whorls found on the palm. Interestingly mentioning that Cummins and Midlo say they are like a primal ancestral genetic flashback.

Ah yes, thanks Patti. It is the same book happy move

**jeanette** Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:27 pm

Hi Martijin,
That is great. That is exactly the information I was wanting also the video. Excellent. Thanks a lot.
Jeanette.

**Roberta** Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:20 pm

Hi Patti and Lynn,

I received the Squire book in yesterday's post and had a wierd moment of deja vu. I recognized it immediately, particularly the author's photo on the back as a book that I had purchased probably thirty years ago. It apparently was too complex for me at that time since I knew zip about palmistry so it went out with other books that I periodically thin from my bookshelves. (A painful process but necessary). I half expected to find my name written inside the cover. thinking

And I've been currently reading a book on synchronicity. Hmmm...

Best,
Roberta

P.S. I started reading it last night and absolutely love it!

Patti Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:59 pm

Roberta wrote:Hi Patti and Lynn,

I received the Squire book in yesterday's post and had a wierd moment of deja vu. I recognized it immediately, particularly the author's photo on the back as a book that I had purchased probably thirty years ago. It apparently was too complex for me at that time since I knew zip about palmistry so it went out with other books that I periodically thin from my bookshelves. (A painful process but necessary). I half expected to find my name written inside the cover. And I've been currently reading a book on synchronicity. Hmmm...

Best,
Roberta

P.S. I started reading it last night and absolutely love it!

I like synchronicity a lot!!
Always wonder if it's my subconscious, my higher self, or a guardian angel. Whichever or all, it's cool!

That is cool, too that you had this book about thirty years ago. It would have been in the late 60's for me.

and

uh oh!!

Looking more closely, I noticed that the "New" version is the one with the chapter on Fingerprints. It's Chapter 20 in the new book and in the older one Chapter 20 is called "Reading the Future". How ironic. The older one is actually the "New" version 1960 and the paperback is 1968 with less newer information. Interestingly someone chose to eliminate that chapter when focusing on the late 60's book readers. This was a book that you'd find on the rack on the wall in the dime store in the 60's.

Patti Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:03 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
A few of the issues that I mentioned out, are featured with visual details in the following video:

Martijn,
Thank you for uploading this video! It is really very helpful!
Thanks!

Patti Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:46 pm

jeanette wrote:I am wondering. You know how there are descriptions for all the lines saying what is the ideal way to have them, eg the heart line which curves between the first two fingers and the others have descriptions of the way they ideally should be. Is there the ideal fingerprint type. Are loops the way they should be. Thanks,
Jeanette.

Jeanette,
I think I now have a good theory for an answer to your question "Is there a perfect fingerprint?" and I think the immediate answer is yes.

I haven't related this to the differences in loops, whorls and arches, but I think the area where the distal ridges meet the proximal ridges when a pattern is formed (loop, whorl and tented arch), certain features need to be there to be "perfect" but sometimes parts are missing, ends or corners don't properly line up or meet.

These are just like basic human ideosyncrasies.

I'll expand on this thought in another format.

Thanks!

for this question!!! hug

**jeanette** Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:35 pm

Hi Patti,
Thanks and I am looking forward to reading your theory. Just hope I will be able to understand it.
Jeanette.

**Martijn (admin)** Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:57 pm

Hi Jeanette,

I think Patti's answer can be associated with a specific aspect of what I described earlier as the "'minor characteristics of an individual fingerprint".

Basically, what we are saying is ... one shall better not associate any of the basic patterns (arch, tented arches, loops, double loops, whorls, etc) with an 'ideal fingerprint'.

But the 'minor charcteristics' are more interesting (such as Patti's suggestion regarding the ridge characteristics seen in the area of the triradius).

By the way, Jeanette... are you already familiar with the phenomenon called 'ridge dissociation'?

If not, the following discussion will be helpfull for you to learn a little bit more about that phenomenon:
https://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t429-string-of-pearls-aka-ridge-dissociation

NOTICE: Fingerprints that show the characteristic of ridge dissociation are NOT 'ideal'.

**jeanette** Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:25 pm

Hi Martijin,
I know nothing about ridges etc, so thanks for the link and information.
Jeanette.

**Martijn (admin)** Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:44 pm

jeanette wrote:Hi Martijin,
I know nothing about ridges etc, so thanks for the link and information.
Jeanette.

Hi Jeanette,

Then I am sure that it will be interesting for you to know that the EVOLUTIONARY function of the 'ridges' relates to the moisturing of the hands:

- In the 'ridges' are the sweat pores found (which manifest as little holes in the ridges);
- And the 'grooves' are the transport-canals the sweat/moisture.

And this function of the 'ridges' and the 'grooves' safeguards that the skin of our inner hands does not get damaged when we 'touch' or 'pick-up' objects, etc.

I hope this will be useful for you to know in order to understand the meaning & function of the ridges (fingerprints + palmar dermatoglyphics) at little bit better.

wave

is there an ideal fingerprint - Page 2 P710169-Fingerprint_skin_ridges-SPL

**jeanette** Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:50 pm

Hi Martijin,
No I am not familiar with ridge disassociation and I did not understand any of the Disney and Kiwihands discussion, but I don't think I am ready for this advanced topic.The grooves are transport canals and the little holes are sweat pores. So are they fixed or are they still moving. Thanks,
Jeanette.

**Martijn (admin)** Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:17 pm

jeanette wrote:Hi Martijin,
No I am not familiar with ridge disassociation and I did not understand any of the Disney and Kiwihands discussion, but I don't think I am ready for this advanced topic.The grooves are transport canals and the little holes are sweat pores. So are they fixed or are they still moving. Thanks,
Jeanette.

Hi Jeanette,

No, every element is 'fixed' to it's location... except the 'sweat' of course.

By the way, I presented this info only as a bit of background information about what you are looking at when analysing a fingerprint. So, don't worry... I didn't present you any 'practical guidelines'. Just a bit of info.

wave

**jeanette** Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:21 pm

Thanks Martijin,
Jeanette.

**Pamelah** Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:12 pm

jeanette wrote:Hi Patti,
Do all fingerprints start from being arches, if so it looks to me that some just stay at arches,some go onto tented arches, loops and then whorls. If this is the case it is like the hand shapes eg the square (down to earth) like the arch fingerprint.
What I meant by the question was if you were only to see a persons fingerprints, nothing else,would an assessment be possible of their intelligence.
Thanks for the chart and reply.
Jeanette.

Jeanette, according to Richard's research in the medical libraries, the volar pads, where the fingerprints form, are from flat to raised. The higher the raised surface, the more lines form, thus whorls being the highest.
I haven't read the rest of the thread yet and this may have been shared already.

There isn't a perferred fingerprint formation from my perspective because, as I see them, the fingerprints are soul agreements. There can't be a preferred soul agreement. That makes no sense to me. Each life time is evolution for each soul so there isn't any preference. It's what is needed for that soul, the filter through which that soul sees life.

**Pamelah** Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:14 pm

jeanette wrote:I am wondering. You know how there are descriptions for all the lines saying what is the ideal way to have them, eg the heart line which curves between the first two fingers and the others have descriptions of the way they ideally should be. Is there the ideal fingerprint type. Are loops the way they should be. Thanks,
Jeanette.

I don't agree that there is an 'ideal' way for any line either. That is somebody's perspective. But as I just mentioned with fingerprints, each person has a reason for what is on their hands and it's important for that person. Nothing is good or bad, ideal or not ideal.

**Pamelah** Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:16 pm

jeanette wrote:Hi Patti,
Do all fingerprints start from being arches, if so it looks to me that some just stay at arches,some go onto tented arches, loops and then whorls. If this is the case it is like the hand shapes eg the square (down to earth) like the arch fingerprint.
What I meant by the question was if you were only to see a persons fingerprints, nothing else,would an assessment be possible of their intelligence.
Thanks for the chart and reply.
Jeanette.

Fingerprints don't determine intelligence so I wouldn't say you could assess that from fingerprints. They are a soul's DNA formation, a map.

Patti Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:32 pm

Pamelah wrote:
Fingerprints don't determine intelligence so I wouldn't say you could assess that from fingerprints. They are a soul's DNA formation, a map.

Hi Pamelah!
Would you mind elaborating a bit on how the fingerprints can be associated with a DNA map? I think that question was asked here recently or something similar.

I would imagine we might expect a certain combination of markings on a DNA strand when consistantly found - would also relate to certain consistant finger prints i.e. arch, loop & whorl groups, or characteristics therein, which in turn relate to human characteristics.

But then it could be more in the range of quantum physics.

How would you explain it farther than just a generalization?

thanks!

**jeanette** Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:15 pm

Hi Pamelah,
Where the fingerprints are I think are called the pads, do you mean that if they are like, the only word I can think of is, plump you would expect them to have whorl prints and if a flat pads were seen they would be expected to be arches. Hope this isn't a daft question. Thanks again.
Jeanette.

**Pamelah** Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:19 pm

Patti wrote:
Pamelah wrote:
Fingerprints don't determine intelligence so I wouldn't say you could assess that from fingerprints. They are a soul's DNA formation, a map.

Hi Pamelah!
Would you mind elaborating a bit on how the fingerprints can be associated with a DNA map? I think that question was asked here recently or something similar.

I would imagine we might expect a certain combination of markings on a DNA strand when consistantly found - would also relate to certain consistant finger prints i.e. arch, loop & whorl groups, or characteristics therein, which in turn relate to human characteristics.

But then it could be more in the range of quantum physics.

How would you explain it farther than just a generalization?

thanks!

Here is my understanding Patti. The fingerprints are permanently formed, as we know. They are our identification, as DNA is our identification - totally personal to us. The DNA of course shows up in many forms in our bodies which is why it is used by law enforcement agencies. They also use our thumb prints - the pattern minutiea identifying us uniquely. The uniqueness of each person is their DNA. This is coming from scientific research I've done. It's something that was given to me as guidance.

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