Persephone Headline? Why?

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:This term is very unfortunate and inconsistent. In Europe, the Swiss Alice Funk has adopted this term in her book ''Handlesen the easy way''. She has been trained by Richard Unger. Besides, those markers gifts on your site, I am not so happy, that are the most quaternary lines / characters in the hand that can disappear quickly. Not important enough and hard to see for a layman.
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Hi Magda, I think I can actually support most of your objections; in the past I have also pointed out that I think it is a bit problematic to describe the simian line and the Sydney line as a 'gift marker'... because in medical science both lines are actually recognized as a (harmless) minor physical anomaly (which implicates that both lines are often more common in populations which have some kind of genetic abnormality, disorder or diseas).

Thanks for pointing out that the term is included in Alice Funk's book (I don't have copy of her book).

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:This term is very unfortunate and inconsistent. In Europe, the Swiss Alice Funk has adopted this term in her book ''Handlesen the easy way''. She has been trained by Richard Unger. Besides, those markers gifts on your site, I am not so happy, that are the most quaternary lines / characters in the hand that can disappear quickly. Not important enough and hard to see for a layman.
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Martijn (admin) wrote:

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:This term is very unfortunate and inconsistent. In Europe, the Swiss Alice Funk has adopted this term in her book ''Handlesen the easy way''. She has been trained by Richard Unger. Besides, those markers gifts on your site, I am not so happy, that are the most quaternary lines / characters in the hand that can disappear quickly. Not important enough and hard to see for a layman.
.

Hi Magda, I think I can actually support most of your objections; in the past I have also pointed out that I think it is a bit problematic to describe the simian line and the Sydney line as a 'gift marker'... because in medical science both lines are actually recognized as a (harmless) minor physical anomaly (which implicates that both lines are often more common in populations which have some kind of genetic abnormality, disorder or diseas).

Thanks for pointing out that the term is included in Alice Funk's book (I don't have copy of her book).

Kiran.Katawa wrote:
Hi Martijn, I think it is not Sydney line,but, long head line that is considered under gift marking category.

Hi Kiran,

Though the Sydney line is usually associated with long head lines that cross the full palm, the very first definition presented by Purvis-Smith in 1972 points out that any line which crosses the mid-axis of the pinky can be described as a Sydney line:

""A sydney line occurs where the proximal transverse crease
extends beyond the midline axis of the fifth finger towards
the ulnar border of the palm." (Purvis-Smith, 1972)"

The implication is that formally there is no clear difference between the scientific concept of the Sydney line and the IIHA concept of the so-called 'Hall 9000 headline'.

Some IIHA students have described the 'Hal 9000 headline' in terms of a line that "reaches almost the edge of the palm"; however, this is not a description that clearly varies from most of the Sydney line... because formally one could even argue that the edge of the palm starts at the mid-axis of the 5th digit, but such lines are recognized as Hall head lines.

In my article about the gift markers I have used the term 'Hal headline'; only after presenting that article I found that there is no clear difference between both concepts. I hope these considerations are enough for you to understand why I often choose to use the term Sydney line to refer to the so-called 'Hal 9000 head line'?

I basically make this choice because many people are familiar with the term Sydney line line, while far less people are familiar with the term 'Hal head line'.

Thank you for asking!

Kiran.Katawa wrote:Thank you for the details Martijn.
Yes, IIHA doesn't define the HAL very specifically. It is identified as long head line.


(Read some more text on this...)
But, again, they don't classify it to be something that crosses the palm.
The long headline that reaches to the mid section of the little finger is often seen.
However, a Sydney, as modified by Wertelecki and other others is something that crosses the other side of the palm completely.

Yes Kiran, there are various definitions for a Sydney line available; but one could say that an incomplete Sydney line (which could be applied to a line only just not long enough to be classified as a complete Sydney line)... could very well be recognized as a 'Hal head line'.

Basically, it's a complex issue... and what may look as a complete Sydney line in a handprint (inkprint).. may actually look like a Hal head line' when observed from a photo.

And because of this complexity there is no clear difference between a Sydney line and a 'Hal head line', etc.

Thanks again for raising the issue.

Kiran.Katawa wrote:

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:This term is very unfortunate and inconsistent. In Europe, the Swiss Alice Funk has adopted this term in her book ''Handlesen the easy way''. She has been trained by Richard Unger. Besides, those markers gifts on your site, I am not so happy, that are the most quaternary lines / characters in the hand that can disappear quickly. Not important enough and hard to see for a layman.
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Hi Magda, are you saying that the so called persephone line(deeply diving head line) can disappear/appear quickly?

Martijn (admin) wrote:PS. Lynn, thanks for sharing your association regarding the Personphone line with Pluto; but it appears that in the IIHA system Pluto gets associated with mars-positive - see Jena Griffiths article (the illustration below is featured in Jena's article).

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:

Lynn wrote:[Thanks I didn't know. I've always associated Scorpio/Pluto with lower luna.

Hi Lyn,
Me too, the lower Luna is for me the mount of Pluto and when you know the meaning of it is that makes sense. In some of my 255 books they use the name Pluto for the Ulnar or upper Mars. Under the mount of Pluto is sometimes an other mount to see, associated with the Mount of Pluto. I have different pictures of it. In the book by Rita Robinson she has been talked about a little bit, but I have done further research about this mountain and I have introduce this mountain in my new book. The name is mount of Proserpina Hence my question why Persephone line without a substantiation?

Magda, in Persepone relates to the Roman mythology (and it is known as the goddess equivalent of Proserpina in Greece mythology).

(Just like Jupiter is the Roman god equivalent of the Greece god Zeus)



PS. Funny how in your perspective the 'Persephone line' could makes sense... because you ascociate the lower mount of moon with Pluto! However, since Jena Griffiths website appears to indicate that Pluto gets associated with Mars positive (see my earlier post)... I assumed that there was no connection between the Persephone line & Pluto.

However, in the following IIHA-document (published in 1993) we can see that in the early days of the IIHA school the connection between Persephone, Pluto and the lower mount of moon has been made! - See page 10: http://www.handanalysis.net/journals/Journal,%20Vol_2,%20Issue%202.pdf

Maybe later in time Richard began to associate Mars-positive with Pluto? Because also in the work of another IIHA student (Kay Packard) we can see that Pluto gets connected with Mars-Positive.

The name Persephone line could make sense when Pluto gets associated with the lower mount of Moon; but if the IIHA school has changed their opinion about the mount of Pluto in time... this would implicate that the name 'Persephone line' would no longer makes sense.

... I really wonder if Richard is aware of this???

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:

Kiran.Katawa wrote:

Magda van Dijk-Rijneke wrote:This term is very unfortunate and inconsistent. In Europe, the Swiss Alice Funk has adopted this term in her book ''Handlesen the easy way''. She has been trained by Richard Unger. Besides, those markers gifts on your site,  I am not so happy, that are the most quaternary lines / characters in the hand that can disappear quickly. Not important enough and hard to see for a layman.
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Hi Magda, are you saying that the so called persephone line(deeply diving head line) can disappear/appear quickly?

Sorry Kiran, I meant the little mini lines as the star can disappear quickly. Besides the  downward Headline is in my opinion no gift marking. If you think that then the Saturn line from the Moon Mountain also are a gift marking. What nonsense and illogical. Both lines are primary lines and even that can change. Only the skin patterns, the purest gift markings are, these never change.