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I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

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I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:07 pm

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Over the years in the fields of hand reading the thumb has been associated with e.g. 'the Soul' (Edo Sprong - Vedic Hand Analysis), and  'a central system in the human Psyche' (Arnold Holtzman - Psychodiagnostic Chirology). However, it is important to be aware that such words ('soul' & 'psyche') often have little to no specified meaning when these are not used in the perspective of a specific (religeous, philosophical or scientific) context!  

As a matter of fact, depending on the context where those words are used, in general there is widespread agreement both words can actually be used as synonyms! Therefore, in the context of hand reading (which is often not presented in a specific school of thought) one can argue that the meaning of the following words can be perceived as representing synonyms:

- soul (e.g. used by Plato);
- psyche (e.g. used by Aristotle);
- mind;
- spirit;
- I (e.g. used by Emanuel Kant)
- self.


For this reason I have tried to create a value-free map of the hand (see picture above), describing the role of the thumb in the perspective of the full hand - without using any theological- nor any philosophical vocabulary.

NOTICE: The words 'psyche' & 'mind' are being used in the field of modern psychology today (though the word 'mind' is usually prefered above the word 'psyche', see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyche_(psychology) ).

However, to avoid any association with religeous believes I have adopted the word 'identity' as a value-free alternative. Additionally, here one can read more about how the word 'identity' is commonly used in the context of social psychology: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_(social_science)


[One can perceive this as a proposition of mine for the use of a neutral vocabulary - free from theological-, philosophical- and/or religeous preassumptions]

The above implicates that in a neutral vocabulary (not associated with a specific religion nor a specific philosophy) one might say that in the field of hand reading the thumb can be said to represent  the 'core-identity' of a person.

I hope this makes sense?

thinking


PS. I realize that in some branches of hand reading the thumb has been associated with the 'external world' (and the pinky side of the hand with the 'internal world'); PDC appears to be one of the schools that support this view. However, I think there has never been presented any sort of evidence which confirms this assumption... and additionally if one assumes/accepts that the thumb represents the 'core' or 'essence' of a person - one could wonder why/how it then can become associated with the external world.

Anyway, in various branches of hand reading (including: Vedic Palmistry, and most of the early & later Dutch & German chirology schools) the thumb clearly gets associated with the inner world.

NOTICE: Regarding men and women, one could say that men are often perceived to be oriented on 'worldly values', while women are often perceived to be more oriented on 'internal values'; the hand appears to present some evidence for these tendency... for women usually tend to have a slightly higher 2D:4D digit ratio than the ratio in men (which can be recognzed as clear evidence that in women the thumb side of the hand tends to me more developed compared to the pinky side of the hand).

(I have found some new evidence that the thumb is more likely to represent the 'inner world'. In my latest research work on the psychological dimension Extraversion-Introversion there are two elements inside the results which suggest that a well developed thumb-side of the hand - read: high 2D:4D digit ratio & a high thenar:hypothenar ratio - tends to be found more often among introverts, who can be described as people who are sort of more oriented on their inner world than their outer world.)



Finally, a few quotes from the works of various artists & scientists (non-handreaders) who also recognized the significance of the human thumb from their own unique point of view:


"The Twenty-Four-Karat-Thumb"

Frank R. Wilson, US neurologist (quote is a chapter title in his book 'The Hand') [born in 1919 and still alive]


"... Without the thumb is put back 60 million years in evolutionary terms to a stage when the thumb had no independent movement and was just another digit. One cannot emphasize enough the importance of finger-thumb opposition for human emergence from a relatively undistinguished primate background. ..."

John Napier, British primatologist [1917-1987]


"... The fingers must be educated, the thumb is born knowing. ..."

Mark Chagall, Russian artist [1887-1985]


"... In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God's existence. ..."

(Disputed) Isaac Newton, English physicist & natural philosopher [1643-1727]



IMPORTANT: This make a long discussion and the pictures below were presented in earlier phases at the top of this post (during this discussion the most recent picture is now always attached at the top of this post).


Picture 1:



Picture 2:



Picture 3:



Picture 4:



Picture 5:



Picture 6:



Picture 7:



Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:19 am; edited 20 times in total

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sunny

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:13 pm


I have created this topic in order to generate further discussion;
so your ideas and/or feedback is very welcome!


wave

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sunny

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:50 pm



Poet John Donne (1572-1631) wrote:

"No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main."



I think the painting above is a nice illustration how each finger can be associated to represent a part of our 'identity' (it also illustrates why it is usually necessary to take all fingers together in consideration).

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:03 pm

In reality the entire hand is an outer expression of the inner self. It's basic function is to interact with the environment. This interaction is a two way street. In and out. Outward expression of the inner self can be described in all parts of the hands. Inner awareness of the outer environment is also actively found in all parts of the hands. How we relay this inner and outer expression/response is what we interpret by dividing the hand into a variety of realms.

Traditionally it is accepted that the inner awareness of the inner self (abstract - self absorbed) is on the opposite side of the hand than the outer awareness of the outer self. (stepping outside oneself - empathy). Although some people are known to 'wear their hearts on their sleeves'.

Radial and Ulnar relates to arteries, bones and nerves, in the arm, and their functions are likely relative to the concept of inner and outer flow of energy.

sunny

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  RishiRahul on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:48 pm

Brilliant posts up there!

soul (e.g. used by Plato);
- psyche (e.g. used by Aristotle);
- mind;
- spirit;
- I (e.g. used by Emanuel Kant) self


The older palmists/philosophers said/meant the thumb to be the 'inner force'.
Which I would call as
'Potential Energy' which actualises.

Without the Potential energy (inner strength) the kinetic would soon go off steam.

A strong thumb shows success + emotionally strong in adversities.

The older palmistry/palmists said in different words (not such expressive words).

RishiRahul




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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Lynn on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:26 pm

There seems to be so much potential for discussion here, I'm not sure where to start!
(edit PS, just kinda thinking out loud....)
OK I know you want to get away from theological or philosophical associations, but first I give you another example of the synonyms that Martijn mentioned, the first two of which have been associated with the thumb.

- soul (e.g. used by Plato);
- psyche (e.g. used by Aristotle);
- mind;
- spirit;
- I (e.g. used by Emanuel Kant) self


IN 5-element hand reading, the thumb is labelled as the ether digit.
I copy below from my teaching notes (originally taught to me by Christopher Jones)....
"You can't observe ether, the fifth element, directly - you can't see it or touch it, and some people argue that it doesn't exist. However, others say it is present everywhere, in everything, manifesting through the four elements.

To imagine it, think of white light being split by a prism into the colours of the rainbow - the four elements are like the colours (the parts), ether is like the white light (the whole). The other four elements - earth, water, fire and air - can be thought of as different manifestations or energy levels of ether, ether vibrating at different rates.

Ether brings the four elements together into one framework - it integrates them into a whole. The word 'whole' comes from the same origin as the words 'holy', 'holistic' 'heal' and 'hale' - the spiritual ideal. Ether is about becoming complete, united with yourself and everything around you. It is said therefore to represent the spiritual realm, the life force, energy, chi, ki, prana, spirit, consciousness. However we can only know ether indirectly, via the other four elements, as it really beyond our understanding.

Statues of Buddha are often shown with an extra phalanx to the thumb. We only have two phalanges - water and fire, whereas Buddha has the air phalanx to portray his ability to understand and communicate ether or spirit."

OK, so none of the above is 'fact', it is just one way of looking at the thumb.
However I like the bit about ether bringing together the other four elements as a whole, as I believe the thumb has the effect of integrating the rest of the hand and that the thumb is the final expression of all this combined energy out into the world. If you have a weak thumb, you can't easily express the qualities of the rest of the hand out into the world.

Therefore at this point in discussion I disagree with Martijn:
Whilst ether fits with 'the essence of a person', all the parts of that make up the essence or core identity are already there in all other aspects of the hand. I would say that the thumb integrates and synthesises all these parts and aspects, brings it all together, and (rather than being the essence or core identity itself) gives us the ability to express that essence out into the world.

Martijn, I am interested to know more about your labellings of the fingers & their identities. eg I think of middle finger more as cultural identity, how we fit into our environment, rather than being self-identity which I associate more with index finger. You label index as 'ego identity' - ego is the self so how do you differentiate ego identity from self identity? Also I don't know what affective identity means.

I am really confused about your labelling of ulna - outer world = subconscious and radial - inner world = conscious. The thumb being associated with the inner world is new to me. (apart from it being a means to express our inner world to the outside world).

I know there's an old saying "The eyes are a window to the soul". I can't remember who first said "The hands are a window to the soul.", was it Benham?... (I know he said "hands are the servant of the brain").... which goes along with what Patti said "In reality the entire hand is an outer expression of the inner self."


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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:40 pm

Patti wrote:In reality the entire hand is an outer expression of the inner self. It's basic function is to interact with the environment. This interaction is a two way street. In and out. Outward expression of the inner self can be described in all parts of the hands. Inner awareness of the outer environment is also actively found in all parts of the hands. How we relay this inner and outer expression/response is what we interpret by dividing the hand into a variety of realms.

Traditionally it is accepted that the inner awareness of the inner self (abstract - self absorbed) is on the opposite side of the hand than the outer awareness of the outer self. (stepping outside oneself - empathy). Although some people are known to 'wear their hearts on their sleeves'.

Radial and Ulnar relates to arteries, bones and nerves, in the arm, and their functions are likely relative to the concept of inner and outer flow of energy.

sunny

Hi Patti! Smile

Thank you for adding your thoughts.

Yes, I understand what you are trying to say in your first alinea. But I think your description does not specify anything regarding the individual parts of the hand at all, so your words make me wonder: how could this become helpfull to understand the nature of the individual parts of the hand?

Regarding you second alinea, where you mentioned '... is on the opposite side of the hand...', I wonder: did you have a specific side of the hand in mind while writing down your associations?

And regarding your third alinea, I associate your words 'flow of energy' with the fact that the bloodstream (vitality) enters the hand at the radial side in the thenar (mount of venus). Did you make this association yourself as well? Or do you have something else in mind?


By the way, I hope you noticed that I created this topic to initiate a discussion about how to understand the nature of the thumb. Unfortunately, so far you haven't mentioned the thumb.

So, I would very much welcome you to specify your earlier thoughts with further specification regarding the thumb.


Thanks!

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:04 pm

RishiRahul wrote:Brilliant posts up there!

soul (e.g. used by Plato);
- psyche (e.g. used by Aristotle);
- mind;
- spirit;
- I (e.g. used by Emanuel Kant) self


The older palmists/philosophers said/meant the thumb to be the 'inner force'.
Which I would call as
'Potential Energy' which actualises.

Without the Potential energy (inner strength) the kinetic would soon go off steam.

A strong thumb shows success + emotionally strong in adversities.

The older palmistry/palmists said in different words (not such expressive words).

RishiRahul


Merci RishiRahul, nice to see that you appreciate the content of this topic!

Thanks!

And yes, I think it is likely true that some older palmists have associated the thumb with 'the inner force'. I think that is kind of just another synonym for the words 'soul', 'psyche', 'mind', 'spirit', etc.


I could add here that many classic- & modern thinkers in the fields of Christianity, Anthroposophy & Esotery tend to describe that the soul tends to manifest via 3 fundamental qualities: thinking, feeling & willing.... and this trinity eventually results in behavior.

And what we can observe from various fields of hand reading is that this trinity (thinking + feeling + willing) is generally associated with the 3 parts of the thumb.

"Success comes from within, not from without.” ― Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:23 pm


(intermezzo)

Maybe the following quote provides a nice opportunity for further contemplation (+ further thinking)... especially seen in the perspective of the traditional qualities attributed to the 3 phalanges of the thumb:

"Psychologists, educationists and other would do well to study the implications of Rudolf Steiner's observation that feeling is thinking in reserve, and also willing in reserve. The life of the soul lives in the expression of thinking, feeling and willing as inner stimuli for outher conduct."

(Quoted from: Dr. Gilbert Childs in 'Truth, Beauty and Goodness')



(NOTICE: Picture below is not featured in Dr Gilbert Childs' work)

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:10 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:



Regarding you second alinea, where you mentioned '... is on the opposite side of the hand...', I wonder: did you have a specific side of the hand in mind while writing down your associations?

...

By the way, I hope you noticed that I created this topic to initiate a discussion about how to understand the nature of the thumb. Unfortunately, so far you haven't mentioned the thumb.



Thanks!


My description would be like a spectrum spanning from outer to inner. Dominant thumb as the most outward expression/response and the non-dominant little finger the most inward expression/response.

An example, if in conversation, I find myself suddenly grasping my left thumb with my right hand while my hands are folded in my lap, I would think I was suppressing an inner urge to speak out in some way. The response may be a wordless reflex, an instinct.

If, I were instead to grasp my dominant right thumb, I think the suppression comes from being consciously aware that it would be wise to keep my mouth shut with what I may be about to say.

Thumbs up!

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:04 pm

Lynn wrote:There seems to be so much potential for discussion here, I'm not sure where to start!
(edit PS, just kinda thinking out loud....)
OK I know you want to get away from theological or philosophical associations, but first I give you another example of the synonyms that Martijn mentioned, the first two of which have been associated with the thumb.

- soul (e.g. used by Plato);
- psyche (e.g. used by Aristotle);
- mind;
- spirit;
- I (e.g. used by Emanuel Kant) self


IN 5-element hand reading, the thumb is labelled as the ether digit.
I copy below from my teaching notes (originally taught to me by Christopher Jones)....
"You can't observe ether, the fifth element, directly - you can't see it or touch it, and some people argue that it doesn't exist. However, others say it is present everywhere, in everything, manifesting through the four elements.

To imagine it, think of white light being split by a prism into the colours of the rainbow - the four elements are like the colours (the parts), ether is like the white light (the whole). The other four elements - earth, water, fire and air - can be thought of as different manifestations or energy levels of ether, ether vibrating at different rates.

Ether brings the four elements together into one framework - it integrates them into a whole. The word 'whole' comes from the same origin as the words 'holy', 'holistic' 'heal' and 'hale' - the spiritual ideal. Ether is about becoming complete, united with yourself and everything around you. It is said therefore to represent the spiritual realm, the life force, energy, chi, ki, prana, spirit, consciousness. However we can only know ether indirectly, via the other four elements, as it really beyond our understanding.

Statues of Buddha are often shown with an extra phalanx to the thumb. We only have two phalanges - water and fire, whereas Buddha has the air phalanx to portray his ability to understand and communicate ether or spirit."

OK, so none of the above is 'fact', it is just one way of looking at the thumb.
However I like the bit about ether bringing together the other four elements as a whole, as I believe the thumb has the effect of integrating the rest of the hand and that the thumb is the final expression of all this combined energy out into the world. If you have a weak thumb, you can't easily express the qualities of the rest of the hand out into the world.

Therefore at this point in discussion I disagree with Martijn:
Whilst ether fits with 'the essence of a person', all the parts of that make up the essence or core identity are already there in all other aspects of the hand. I would say that the thumb integrates and synthesises all these parts and aspects, brings it all together, and (rather than being the essence or core identity itself) gives us the ability to express that essence out into the world.

Martijn, I am interested to know more about your labellings of the fingers & their identities. eg I think of middle finger more as cultural identity, how we fit into our environment, rather than being self-identity which I associate more with index finger. You label index as 'ego identity' - ego is the self so how do you differentiate ego identity from self identity? Also I don't know what affective identity means.

I am really confused about your labelling of ulna - outer world = subconscious and radial - inner world = conscious. The thumb being associated with the inner world is new to me. (apart from it being a means to express our inner world to the outside world).

I know there's an old saying "The eyes are a window to the soul". I can't remember who first said "The hands are a window to the soul.", was it Benham?... (I know he said "hands are the servant of the brain").... which goes along with what Patti said "In reality the entire hand is an outer expression of the inner self."


Hi Lynn,

First of all, glad to see that you noticed that there is 'so much potential for discussion here'. ( Thumbs up! )

Thanks for pointing out that you were not familiar with the vertical division where the thumb gets associated with the 'conscious' inner world (or I-side), and the pinky is associated with the 'unconscious' outer world (or You-side).

I think this division can be understood quite easily in the perspective of the fact that in most hand reading systems especially the pinky is associated with communication & relationships... and I think it is obvious that both issues are expressions of how we interact- and connect with the outer world. This also explains why for example the so-called marriage (relationship) lines are found at the ulnar side of the hand. And I think this all makes sense in the perspective of the archetype of Mercurius in Roman mythology, where it gets associated with the parton of e.g. messages & communication, commerce & eloquence.

(In my earlier posts I have already presented a few arguments how the thumb is associated to represent the inner world)


Let me present you a few quotes which illustrate that this association (thumb = inner world or I-side, pinky = outer world or You-side) actually has a long tradition in various hand reading systems around the world already(!):


Examples from the German 'Cheirologie' school:


- Ursula von Mangoldt in 'Der Mensch im Spiegel der Hand' (p.189, 1955):

"Die der Schwelle des Ich-Weltbewusstseins vorgelagerten Kräfte und Impulse, die sich im Bilde der Daumens zeigen, bilden eine wichtige Komponente des menschlichen Selbstgefühles."

[The emerging world of I-consciousness upstream forces and impulses that show up in the image of the thumb are an important component of the human self-esteem.]


- Mathias Mala in 'Esoterisches Handlesen' (p.29, 1992):

"Die Ichseite ist dem Daumen zugewandt, Ihr gegenüber liegt die Du-seite."

[The I-side is faced at the thumb, at the opposite side lies the you-side.]


Example from the Indian 'vedic palmistry' school:


- Edo Sprong in 'Hand Analyse en Zelfherkenning' (p.14, 1988):

"De duim vertegenwoordigt de ziel of de innerlijke mens."

[The thumb represents the soul or inner man.]


- Ghanshyam Singh Birla in 'Destiny in the Palm of Your Hand' (p.45, 2000):

"The inner world consists of the zones Jupiter, Mars-negative, Venus and the thumb."


Examples from the Dutch 'chirologie' school:


- Magda van Dijk in 'Universele Handleeskunde' (p.52 + p.56, 2000):

"De Actieve Zone ligt aan de radiuszijde van de hand ofwel aan de duimkant. De Actieve Zone of the 'Ik-zijde' vertegenwoordigt het bewuste, rationele of logische aspect van je karakter."

[The Active Zone is located at the radius side of the hand or on the thumb side. The Active Zone of the 'I-side' represents the conscious, rational or logical aspect of your character.]

"Mars berg II: Buitenwereld - Actie & Reactie"

[Mars-positive: Outer world - Action & Reaction]


- Marijke van Kessel in 'Atlas van de Hand' (p.54, 2001):

"De duim is gerelateerd aan de kracht van ons ego en onze wil en vertegenwoordigt ook de innerlijke mens."

[The thumb is related to the strength of our ego and our wants and also represents the inner man.]


Lynn, I hope this summary is helpful for you to understand the origins of my first post?

(I will adress the other 'labels' later... don't worry, I fully understand your notification that my first post actually includes much more food for discussion - but be aware that I only meant to present it as a attempt to present a summary of the majority of the fields of thought in the various branches of hand reading)


PS. As the Chinese 'Qi' (or chi) can best understood as the life-force, therefore I think that in a way it does make sense that in the elemental system the element 'chi' is associated with the thumb. I perceive this as a consistent parallel with the association of the thumb with the (inner) 'soul' and the mount of venus with the (inner) source of vitality - as this is obviously the zone where the bloodstream enters the arteries of the radial side of the hand... before the bloodstream leaves the arteries hand at the ulnar side of the hand.

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Presents: Multi-Perspective Palm Reading + the Global Palm Reading Network

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:17 pm

The life force energy, chi, flows through everything in our universe. It isn't limited to a small portion of the body, such as the thumb. It is thought to be the energy that connects everything to everything else. The matrix or network of energy is in constant communication.

Years ago Christopher Jones suggested we read "The User Illusion" (Cutting Consciousness Down to Size) by Tor Norretranders and either he or Liz Hallows suggested we read R. D. Laing's "The Divided Self". If you haven't read these, you may find them helpful in understanding how the I and the You plays out in the person and possibly the realms of the hands.

wave

<edit> An afterthought. I will add that we are electrical beings. Electricity relates to positive and negative charges. Chi energy is also subdivided into Yin and Yang. In palmistry, the ulna side has been equated to Yin and the radial side to Yang. Yet, the idea of harmony is to balance these energies and not to be divided or out of balance.



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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:08 pm

Patti wrote:The life force energy, chi, flows through everything in our universe. It isn't limited to a small portion of the body, such as the thumb. It is thought to be the energy that connects everything to everything else. The matrix or network of energy is in constant communication.

Years ago Christopher Jones suggested we read "The User Illusion" (Cutting Consciousness Down to Size) by Tor Norretranders and either he or Liz Hallows suggested we read R. D. Laing's "The Divided Self". If you haven't read these, you may find them helpful in understanding how the I and the You plays out in the person and possibly the realms of the hands.

wave


Patti, I think there are many different descriptions of 'Chi' available; for example: Wikipedia reports that it is frequently associated with living things only: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

I hope you are aware that Jennifer Hirsch has linked 'Chi' directly with the thumb (see page 50 in 'God Given Glyphs'), and Lynn described that: 'in 5-element hand reading, the thumb is labelled as the ether digit' (I assume that 'Chi' and 'ether' are being used in the 5 elements system as synonyms, for Jennifer & Lynn are both former students of Christopher)


All I can add here is that I observe that in especially in all hand reading systems that origin from some kind of a philosophic- or religeous belief system, the thumb sort of tends to get associated with some kind of source where conscious life begins (soul, psyche, chi, ether... etc.), and in this specific perspective I posted the PS notification in my previous post.

I hope this makes sense now?

Smile

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:43 pm

Patti wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:



Regarding you second alinea, where you mentioned '... is on the opposite side of the hand...', I wonder: did you have a specific side of the hand in mind while writing down your associations?

...

By the way, I hope you noticed that I created this topic to initiate a discussion about how to understand the nature of the thumb. Unfortunately, so far you haven't mentioned the thumb.



Thanks!


My description would be like a spectrum spanning from outer to inner. Dominant thumb as the most outward expression/response and the non-dominant little finger the most inward expression/response.

An example, if in conversation, I find myself suddenly grasping my left thumb with my right hand while my hands are folded in my lap, I would think I was suppressing an inner urge to speak out in some way. The response may be a wordless reflex, an instinct.

If, I were instead to grasp my dominant right thumb, I think the suppression comes from being consciously aware that it would be wise to keep my mouth shut with what I may be about to say.

Thumbs up!

Thanks for explaining; does this implicate that your earlier comment (''... is on the opposite side of the hand...'') should be understood in the perspective of the example that you described? By the way, in your initial comment you refered to a 'tradition'... can you specify?

(I think there are actually many different approaches regarding how to perceive the role of the right- and left hand; in the perspective of the right- versus the left hand the 'inner world' is sometimes even described in terms of living with family & friends, see page 14 in: http://books.google.nl/books?id=qxGt2A8FwiUC& So I wonder which 'tradition' you exactly have in mind???)


wave

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:20 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:





The above implicates that in a neutral vocabulary (not associated with a specific religion nor a specific philosophy) one might say that in the field of hand reading the thumb can be said to represent the 'core-identity' of a person.

I hope this makes sense?


So, far it appears the main support used for this new idea is from selected philosophies and palmistry systems.

Lynn wrote:

Martijn, I am interested to know more about your labellings of the fingers & their identities. eg I think of middle finger more as cultural identity, how we fit into our environment, rather than being self-identity which I associate more with index finger. You label index as 'ego identity' - ego is the self so how do you differentiate ego identity from self identity? Also I don't know what affective identity means.

I am really confused about your labelling of ulna - outer world = subconscious and radial - inner world = conscious. The thumb being associated with the inner world is new to me. (apart from it being a means to express our inner world to the outside world).


Same questions as Lynn in this first paragraph.

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Lynn on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:31 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Thanks for pointing out that you were not familiar with the vertical division where the thumb gets associated with the 'conscious' inner world (or I-side), and the pinky is associated with the 'unconscious' outer world (or You-side).

Yes of course I am familiar with the vertical division of the hand between conscious & subconscious / outer and inner. Except I associate ulna with subconscious/inner and radial with conscious/outer. I do not understand conscious being associated with inner, or subconscious being associated with outer. (tho it is possible to subdivide the hand in many ways, eg vertically, horizontally and into 4 quadrants).

Patti said
The life force energy, chi, flows through everything in our universe. It isn't limited to a small portion of the body, such as the thumb. It is thought to be the energy that connects everything to everything else. The matrix or network of energy is in constant communication.

Yes I agree that "The life force energy, chi, flows through everything in our universe. It isn't limited to a small portion of the body, such as the thumb. It is thought to be the energy that connects everything to everything else." Or one could argue that it doesn't just flow through everything, it IS everything! I also agree that it is the energy that connects everything to everything else ... it is the chi or ether that brings everything together! Hence my argument that the thumb brings everything else in the hand together & is the final expression of our energy out into the world. ie If we have a weak thumb, we cannot express the qualities of the rest of the hand.

Patti said
Years ago Christopher Jones suggested we read "The User Illusion" (Cutting Consciousness Down to Size) by Tor Norretranders and either he or Liz Hallows suggested we read R. D. Laing's "The Divided Self". If you haven't read these, you may find them helpful in understanding how the I and the You plays out in the person and possibly the realms of the hands.
I read RD Laing many years ago, can't recall whether I ever read "The User Illusion" but thanks for reminding me. Smile

Martijn said
I hope you are aware that Jennifer Hirsch has linked 'Chi' directly with the thumb (see page 50 in 'God Given Glyphs'), and Lynn described that: 'in 5-element hand reading, the thumb is labelled as the ether digit' (I assume that 'Chi' and 'ether' are being used in the 5 elements system as synonyms, for Jennifer & Lynn are both former students of Christopher)
Yes, please note I said "ether is said therefore to represent the spiritual realm, the life force, energy, chi, ki, prana, spirit, consciousness." Tho after a discussion today with someone else, about a different subject, I am questioning "what is consciousness"?

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Lynn on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:42 am

Patti wrote:
Lynn wrote:

Martijn, I am interested to know more about your labellings of the fingers & their identities. eg I think of middle finger more as cultural identity, how we fit into our environment, rather than being self-identity which I associate more with index finger. You label index as 'ego identity' - ego is the self so how do you differentiate ego identity from self identity? Also I don't know what affective identity means.

I am really confused about your labelling of ulna - outer world = subconscious and radial - inner world = conscious. The thumb being associated with the inner world is new to me. (apart from it being a means to express our inner world to the outside world).


Same questions as Lynn in this first paragraph.

Thanks for re-asking my questions. Good to see you here again Patti, I love a good debate/exchange of ideas!

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:54 am

Lynn wrote:
Patti wrote:
Lynn wrote:

Martijn, I am interested to know more about your labellings of the fingers & their identities. eg I think of middle finger more as cultural identity, how we fit into our environment, rather than being self-identity which I associate more with index finger. You label index as 'ego identity' - ego is the self so how do you differentiate ego identity from self identity? Also I don't know what affective identity means.

I am really confused about your labelling of ulna - outer world = subconscious and radial - inner world = conscious. The thumb being associated with the inner world is new to me. (apart from it being a means to express our inner world to the outside world).


Same questions as Lynn in this first paragraph.

Thanks for re-asking my questions. Good to see you here again Patti, I love a good debate/exchange of ideas!

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:57 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti, I think there are many different descriptions of 'Chi' available; for example: Wikipedia reports that it is frequently associated with living things only: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qi

Animism

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Lynn on Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:22 am

there are various definitions of animism. some say that animism attributes life, soul and consciousness also to inanimate objects & phenomena such as weather conditions.
(?)

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:38 am

Lynn wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Thanks for pointing out that you were not familiar with the vertical division where the thumb gets associated with the 'conscious' inner world (or I-side), and the pinky is associated with the 'unconscious' outer world (or You-side).

Yes of course I am familiar with the vertical division of the hand between conscious & subconscious / outer and inner. Except I associate ulna with subconscious/inner and radial with conscious/outer. I do not understand conscious being associated with inner, or subconscious being associated with outer. (tho it is possible to subdivide the hand in many ways, eg vertically, horizontally and into 4 quadrants).

...

Tho after a discussion today with someone else, about a different subject, I am questioning "what is consciousness"?

Hi Lynn,

Okay, I understand that you associate 'conscious' with 'outer'... but can you explain how/why you make the connection?

I think your final words in the post above (where you have started questioning the meaning of the word 'conscious'), might indicate that so far you sort of used this association as an assumption.


PS. By the way, Wikipedia points out that in daily life the word 'subconscious' generally has no specified meaning at all and therefore... maybe it's about time that we start questioning whether it makes any sense to continue with any subdivision for the hand regarding the conscious and the subconscious!

For example, at the Academie Antropodynamica I was also literally thought that the fingers represent the 'conscious' and the palm represents the 'subconscious'.

thinking I guess it took me 20 years to find out (today) that this type of reasoning can be recognized as a typical example of the 'New Age' folklore, where people tend to make fancy associations, assumptions & theories... that at the end hardly have any specified meaning at all - because the vocabulary is suitable to be used as support for likewise arguments... that together can create a contradiction.

This rather typical discussion about where to find the 'outer world' and where to find the 'inner world'... reminds me of another 'controversial' theme in field of hand reading concerning the issue: 'at which side of the hand do we find the starting point of the heart line?'.

king

Edit:

PS. Interesting, Wikipedia confirms that the use of the words 'conscious', 'unconscious', 'subconscious' and 'superconscious' are part of the regular vocabulary used in the fields of (modern) palmistry, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmistry

(This Wikipedia page also describes that the interpretations often turn out to include 'conflicting' elements, quote: "The information outlined below is briefly representative of modern palmistry; there are many ― often conflicting ― interpretations of various lines and palmar features across various schools of palmistry.")


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:52 pm; edited 7 times in total

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:22 am

Lynn wrote:

Patti said
The life force energy, chi, flows through everything in our universe. It isn't limited to a small portion of the body, such as the thumb. It is thought to be the energy that connects everything to everything else. The matrix or network of energy is in constant communication.

Yes I agree that "The life force energy, chi, flows through everything in our universe. It isn't limited to a small portion of the body, such as the thumb. It is thought to be the energy that connects everything to everything else." Or one could argue that it doesn't just flow through everything, it IS everything! I also agree that it is the energy that connects everything to everything else ... it is the chi or ether that brings everything together!

If one assumes that 'Chi' is everywhere and anywhere in the Universe (which now appears to be described as the old definition - see the quote below)... then I think it is pretty obvious that then the word 'Chi' can simply best be associated with the word 'energy'.

By the way, Wikipedia reports that the definition of 'Chi' [qi] has actually changed over time:

"Although the concept of qi has been important within many Chinese philosophies, over the centuries the descriptions of qi have varied and have sometimes been in conflict. Until China came into contact with Western scientific and philosophical ideas, they had not categorized all things in terms of matter and energy. Qi and li (理: "pattern") were 'fundamental' categories similar to matter and energy."


PS. In the perspective of my previous post one could argue here that the concept of 'chi' looks very much like another (ambiguous) concept which anyone can use for personal purposes... Razz in order to 'bend it like Beckham' into any desired direction - at any time and any place in the universe of course!


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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Patti on Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:27 pm

A conscious tangible example for describing chi is the feeling you get when you enter a room where there's just been an argument. People often describe the energy as one that can be 'cut with a knife'.

Often when I'm reading hands, an electrical zap of energy will run from their thumb or index finger to my hand that is holding theirs. I don't recall feeling this zap from the little finger side of the hand.



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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Lynn on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:33 am

Lynn - Tho after a discussion today with someone else, about a different subject, I am questioning "what is consciousness"?
Martijn-I think your final words in the post above (where you have started questioning the meaning of the word 'conscious'), might indicate that so far you sort of used this association as an assumption.
It was the word 'consciousness that I was questioning, in a discussion about everything in the universe having consciousness. eg. mountains and tables and flowers. I associate consciousness with awareness. I agreed that they are all atoms/energy/ (chi / ether) vibrating at different levels, but I don't think the mountain or table or flower has consciousness/awareness that it is a mountain or table or flower. Maybe the mountain /flower knows what it is at a molecular level but not at a conscious awareness level. eg flower growing from seed to stalk to flower opening to the sun, I disagreed that it is conscious or knows what it is doing, it just does what it is biologically & chemically programmed to do. The other people assured me that I do not understand the term consciousness, because everything around us is/has consciousness. scratch thinking Question

For example, at the Academie Antropodynamica I was also literally thought that the fingers represent the 'conscious' and the palm represents the 'subconscious'.
At C.Soc I was taught that the fingers represent the mind, the palm represents the body.

thinking I guess it took me 20 years to find out (today) that this type of reasoning can be recognized as a typical example of the 'New Age' folklore, where people tend to make fancy associations, assumptions & theories... that at the end hardly have any specified meaning at all - because the vocabulary is suitable to be used as support for likewise arguments... that together can create a contradiction.
Glad you had a Idea today! But none of it is real (fact), they are all just symbolic ways of looking. None of it might be correct, or it might all be correct. Laughing

This rather typical discussion about where to find the 'outer world' and where to find the 'inner world'... reminds me of another 'controversial' theme in field of hand reading concerning the issue: 'at which side of the hand do we find the starting point of the heart line?'.
Also reminds me of "what do left and right hands represent?".

Martijn said
(Lynn) Okay, I understand that you associate 'conscious' with 'outer'... but can you explain how/why you make the connection?
Because conscious is what we are most aware of, it is more accessible, hence ''outer' but subconscious is more hidden and difficult to access, hence 'inner'.
Martijn, why do you associate conscious with inner, and subconscious with outer?

and Martijn I would really appreciate your answer to my questions that Patti repeated I am interested to know more about your labellings of the fingers & their identities. eg I think of middle finger more as cultural identity, how we fit into our environment, rather than being self-identity which I associate more with index finger. You label index as 'ego identity' - ego is the self so how do you differentiate ego identity from self identity? Also I don't know what affective identity means.

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Re: I - The thumb represents the inner essence of man!

Post  Parender on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:27 am

Your Inner Essence is the fabrication of your being, very personal, your soul psychology, your life purpose and is a continue process. It is more than that; like an internal force that guides, inspires, motivates you. A spiritual person can understand this well because it is infinite silence, peace and stillness at the core point of your being, to be in harmony with Almighty. Sometime it is beyond language and is expressed by many emotions.

It is a ‘feeling’ that’s totally unique and personal to every individual. It is an awakening of the Truth for you. Inner essence is a combination of many things. A thumb can denote your willpower, decision-making power, persistence or energy level, yours being successful or failure but I think it (sole thumb) cannot reveal your inner essence, for this you would have to study all the fingers and fingertips. Yes, thumb individualizes a person and is very important but without fingers what it is? Like studying or analyzing hand as a whole is more important than studying in sections so to know and understand inner essence we would have to study fingers too. After all this is your Life Purpose.

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