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VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:36 am


Talma, if I would ask you to summarize the TOP 5 hand features for the hand to look for regarding schizophrenia... would you be able to answer such a question with a specific answer instantly?

And would you be able to explain why these specific features matter from a fundamental point of view in the terms of (biological) causes?


 Thanks!

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Mental Illness - PALM READING

Post  profmani on Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:41 am

Profmani Age 78 years Palmist for several years
Mental Illness can be read when you see a DOT on the Head Line
Mental illness can be read when you see the Head line running very close to life line
Mental illness can be read when you see SIMIAN LINE on the Palm
Mental illness can be read when you see a Horizontal line on the third phalange of Saturn Finger
Mental Illness can be read when you see a VERY SHORT Head line
Mental Illness can be read when you see a abnormal high moon mount
Mental Illness can be read when you see a horizontal line crossing from Moon mount to Venus Mount

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:04 am

profmani wrote:Profmani Age 78 years Palmist for several years
Mental Illness can be read when you see a DOT on the Head Line
Mental illness can be read when you see the Head line running very close to life line
Mental illness can be read when you see SIMIAN LINE on the Palm
Mental illness can be read when you see a Horizontal line on the third phalange of Saturn Finger
Mental Illness can be read when you see a VERY SHORT Head line
Mental Illness can be read when you see a abnormal high moon mount
Mental Illness can be read when you see a horizontal line crossing from Moon mount to Venus Mount

Sounds quite unrealistic to me, because I think most people have at least one of these features (though I have none of them myself).

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:48 pm



In a 'multi-perspective' approach to the hand in mental disorders, it is important to be aware of the behaviors that relate to the hand motorics. Because even in the global classification systems for mental disorders & psychopathology the hand is mentioned quite a few times!!!

I have summarized the most significant hand behaviors mentioned by the World Health Organization & the American Psychiatric Association in this brand new article:

Hand behaviors in mental disorders:
Guidelines according DSM-5 (2013), DSM IV (1994) & ICD-10 (1992)!

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  nonas_insights on Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:59 pm

Mental health diagnosis is such a delicate subject. Personally even if asked by someone to tell them whether they have a mental health issue I would be exceedingly careful in how I would phrase a reply. For some time now I am coming to the conclusion that as palm-readers we are privileged to look into people's lives and they in turn trust us to tell them the truth. However sometimes, some truths need to be veiled. I have noted that when people show you their palm they are giving their trust to you totally.We readers become as hypnotists - people really listen to what we are saying, and relating it to their lives. Hypnosis in the right hands (pun not intended) is a tool for good. Yet, how many times have I had clients come back and tell me that all I had said had come true - was I reading their life map, or did they make it happen because I had said something?

I am writing this because if you are clumsy enough to tell a person they have a mental health disorder you may well screw up their mind totally. I deal with someone daily who has mental health issues, epilepsy and I suspect BPD and I tread very cautiously. I have set off this person's "trigger" once with a violence to myself and since then am very very cautious. This person knows of their own mental health issues like depression and anxiety, but re the other things I have mentioned here like BPD I wouldn't even dare voice. Depression and anxiety aren't seen in their hand, but looking at that person't family history it seems to run in the father's side of the bloodline almost psychopathic behaviour. This person's headline is strong in both hands until it stops at about age 56. It doesn't peter out. It just stops. That is now 2 years ago. Under normal circumstances I would read this as boredom setting in at age 56. And I can tell you this person is inconsistent, threatening, is incredibly strong and has a history of intermittent violent episodes. Indeed he is lucky not to be in gaol. He refuses all medication.

Re schizophrenia - I'd like you to look up Dr. Franz Ruppert's work on "Family Constellations." If you're on facebook, Family Constellations has its own group. Dr. Franz Ruppert is a German psychiatrist who has founded the "Family Constellations" group therapy to heal people of family inherited mental disorders. Including Schizophrenia. He has found that survivors of the Holocaust, becoming parents themselves, often had children who developed schizophrenia. How, you ask? It's that they inherited their parents' and grandparents' traumas. Like cancer, for example, it can be inherited. We are all the outcome of an egg meeting a sperm. Both carry DNA at cellular level.

I realise I am a bit off topic here, but for serious students of human character, which I think those of us posting here are, Dr Franz Ruppert's books are available from The Book Depository in UK (postage free worldwide) and you would do well to read his books. This is seriously insightful reading on how past events influence us and our children and grandchildren. Really, a "Must-Read."
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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  nonas_insights on Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:18 pm

Chained headlines show confusion, overload of information, possibly psychosis, mental breakdowns - depending whether the chain is made up of 3 or more chain links, or is an island somewhere on the headline.
At the beginning of this year I did readings at one of Adelaide's universities during their O-weeks (orientation week) and must have looked into about 240 hands. Almost all the Anglo-Saxon studnets' hands showed confusion and not knowing what to think. I translated this to them as "information overload" and they agreed that there was too much media and things on offer for them to be able to come to an independant decision and they felt a bit lost. (This would have been the age group of 17 - 20) mainly first year students. Interestingly enough this confusion wasn't seen in the hands of Indians, South Americans, Asians, Italians or Greeks, nor Aboriginals. My personal conclusion was that the latter come from strong, close-knit family structures. Anglo-Saxon households are falling apart here, leaving their young without a family anchor.

Mental health issues (I have found) can also be seen as breaks in the headline.

Psychopathic behaviour (or lack of conscience) can be seen on the finger tips of hands, in terms that (on men's hands) there are distinct crosses on the fingertips as well as on the thumb. I can verify this as I had a client some years ago who, while waiting to make a court appearance, came to have his palm read. I was the resident palm-reader in the Adelaide Central Market 1993-1999. The lines on his hands showed a most competent person, finger lengths normal, strong thumb. But oh, those crosses! I had never seen such a hand before. He asked what the crosses meant and I said I didn't know, but I would look it up and tell him when he came back from his court appearance. ... While he was away I looked in my teacher Peter Hazel's book... "murder, violence, robbery, brutish behaviour" - oh my! what was I going to say when he came back?? He came back. He looked like your average grandfather. He was 75. "So, what do those crosses mean?" he asked. I said: "Society doesn't understand you." "Bloody oath they don't," he replied. Iasked him what he had been over in the courts for and he nonchalantly said: "I was up for rape. I got 4 months. The judge reckoned I should have got 4 years."

I was covering my backside by skirting around the meaning of the crosses. I sure didn't want to run into him on a dark night anywhere.
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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  pravin kumar on Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:03 am

Nonas,

Interesting reading your response about that rapists. I have met 4 definite murderers, 3 of them had committed the crime and the third one was going to do it and later on I came to know he had done it. When they come to you for palm reading they are like a patient going to his Doctor. Never heard a patient attacking the Doctor. So there is nothing to worry.

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:11 am


Regarding the hand in schizophrenia in specific: the latest update of my research suggests that one should best focus at hand signs combinations where both 'minor physical anomalies' and 'neurological soft signs' are involved.

Especially the (major) hand lines & hand motorics can be expected to get involved, and one should also focus on extraordinary signs in the nail phalanges and/or the pinky finger.

PS. The article now includes 47 hand signs significant for schizophrenia, featured with references to 35 reports!

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  yogiman on Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:02 pm

I was at a friend's place, and over there met his mentally retarded brother (age 56). I never ask for people's hands, because I don't feel qualified enough, but couldn't resist the temptation in this case. You can tell by the form of the man's head that he is mentally retarded, but when I asked for his hand I saw all healthy clear lines. i didn't look to dermatoglypics. His life line merges with his fate line and is big, though he is fully dependent on his brother. I could not detect anything unusual by his headline, and his fate line runs like an arrow from the bottom to his ringfinger. And that was the only unusual feature I could recognize. Makes me wonder whether mental illness can prevent important features showing in the hand, which would also explain about the normal hand of the psychopath, that Lynn was referring to in a post of 3 years ago.

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  pravin kumar on Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:07 pm

Please check the person's thumb whether it is high set in the palm? That is called a Monkey's thumb. Second: Are the persons fingers extremely loose like a monkey's fingers. Along with this does he have a stiff hard hand. You will reference of this in W.G. Benham's Book "The Laws of Scientific Hand Reading" in the Chapter on Thumb.


yogiman wrote:I was at a friend's place, and over there met his mentally retarded brother (age 56). I never ask for people's hands, because I don't feel qualified enough, but couldn't resist the temptation in this case. You can tell by the form of the man's head that he is mentally retarded, but when I asked for his hand I saw all healthy clear lines. i didn't look to dermatoglypics. His life line merges with his fate line and is big, though he is fully dependent on his brother. I could not detect anything unusual by his headline, and his fate line runs like an arrow from the bottom to his ringfinger. And that was the only unusual feature I could recognize. Makes me wonder whether mental illness can prevent important features showing in the hand, which would also explain about the normal hand of the psychopath, that Lynn was referring to in a post of 3 years ago.

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  yogiman on Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:35 pm

Probably his fingers are very loose, but still I don't get why his lines are okay.

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:53 pm

yogiman wrote:Probably his fingers are very loose, but still I don't get why his lines are okay.

The hands of a 'retarded' person can show a very wide range of variations (depending on the level- and type of retardedness), and there is a good chance that one of the following three disorders is involved: autism, fragile-x syndrome or Down syndrome - usually the dermatoglyphics are essential in these disorders (especially when the lines look normal).

Next time you might inform whether your friend has a specific disorder, which would make it much more easy to find the essential characteristics inside his hand.


PS. Especially for this topic I wouldn't recommend to attribute much value to Benham's work (mentioned by Pravin Kumar) - because in those days (at the start of the 20 century) the nature of retardness was often misdiagnosed... and misunderstood.

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Lynn on Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:27 am

I was at a friend's place, and over there met his mentally retarded brother (age 56). I never ask for people's hands, because I don't feel qualified enough, but couldn't resist the temptation in this case. You can tell by the form of the man's head that he is mentally retarded, but when I asked for his hand I saw all healthy clear lines. i didn't look to dermatoglypics. His life line merges with his fate line and is big, though he is fully dependent on his brother. I could not detect anything unusual by his headline, and his fate line runs like an arrow from the bottom to his ringfinger. And that was the only unusual feature I could recognize. Makes me wonder whether mental illness can prevent important features showing in the hand, which would also explain about the normal hand of the psychopath, that Lynn was referring to in a post of 3 years ago.

by the way yogiman, mental illness and mental handicap / learning disability (retardation) are very different things. Mental illness can happen to anyone at any age, it has nothing to do with intelligence, and people can recover from mental illness. Whereas mental handicap is permanent, a lifelong learning disability involving low IQ.

Because learning disability is usually present from birth and is a permanent condition, I would expect it more likely to show in the fundamental features of the hand which never change eg handshape, nails, thumb & finger lengths & shapes, dermatoglyphics, rather than in the lines.
In one study we found 14 out of 18 learning disabled people had the fate line coming from the Lower Minor Water line (also known as via lasciva, intensity line, compulsion line, allergies / addictions/cravings line). Some (up to around 65%) of people with Down's syndrome have a Simian line or Simian variant. I think there is also a higher incidence of Sydney line in people with a mental handicap than in the general population.

You said his fate line is running to the ring finger - that would make it a sun line or apollo line rather than a fate line.

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  learner on Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:02 am

Lynn wrote:

by the way yogiman, mental illness and mental handicap / learning disability (retardation) are very different things. Mental illness can happen to anyone at any age, it has nothing to do with intelligence, and people can recover from mental illness. Whereas mental handicap is permanent, a lifelong learning disability involving low IQ.

Because learning disability is usually present from birth and is a permanent condition, I would expect it more likely to show in the fundamental features of the hand which never change eg handshape, nails, thumb & finger lengths & shapes, dermatoglyphics, rather than in the lines.
In one study we found 14 out of 18 learning disabled people had the fate line coming from the Lower Minor Water line (also known as via lasciva, intensity line, compulsion line, allergies / addictions/cravings line). Some (up to around 65%) of people with Down's syndrome have a Simian line or Simian variant. I think there is also a higher incidence of Sydney line in people with a mental handicap than in the general population.

You said his fate line is running to the ring finger - that would make it a sun line or apollo line rather than a fate line.

In the extravert - intravert study, Martijn had developed a formula that gave him very good results for identifying extraverts and intraverts. Is there any such formula for identifying mental illness or handicap?

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  yogiman on Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:47 am

Dear Lynn,

don't try to distort the facts. I told that his fate line was running from the bottom, just where mine starts and where it should start. It is a very clear line, like all his lines are. What I can say is that he is a straight character. He is not able to be smug and sly. When you ask him something it takes about thirty seconds, and during this time he exerts himself to the utmost, after which he exclaims a stuttering but very decisive yes or no for about 15 seconds.

His head line is also clear, and not short, neither long. From prints and photos I have seen quite a few hands now, but he is doing very well in comparison.

So what I like to have now is some philosophy about palm reading. Why do traits not necessarily show up. The big majority of the people would say, they don't like to waste their time. However, we at the forum know that there are forces which are beyond the darwinian law of natural selection. And maybe that can give a little bit of a clue. Could it be that there is ethics involved in the palm? A universal intelligence that is averse from stigmatizing marks? It is clear that he is mentally handicapped, so why should it show up in the hand. And about the psychopath, maybe there are hints, but very well hidden.

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Lynn on Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:20 am

yogiman wrote:Dear Lynn,

don't try to distort the facts. I told that his fate line was running from the bottom, just where mine starts and where it should start.

hi yogiman,
How am I distorting facts / which facts am I distorting?
The fate line can have many different starting points, but goes towards the Saturn finger. You said it ends under ring finger, hence my comment, it is usually the apollo or sun line that ends under ring finger.
There is another discussion somewhere about whether IQ shows on the hand, I will try to find it.

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Lynn on Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:45 am


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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:14 pm

Lynn wrote:

by the way yogiman, mental illness and mental handicap / learning disability (retardation) are very different things. ...

Thumbs up!

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:20 pm

learner wrote:
In the extravert - intravert study, Martijn had developed a formula that gave him very good results for identifying extraverts and intraverts. Is there any such formula for identifying mental illness or handicap?

So far such formulas are only available for various mental handicaps (syndromes).

PS. Regarding the extraversion-introversion project: during the past week I have made new progress, and I expect to be able to present new guidelines related to the dermatoglyphics (which will also fit in the earlier presented concept which suggests that it is important to analyse the ulnar- and radial side of the hand separately... especially the PALM of the hand).

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:30 pm

yogiman wrote:...

So what I like to have now is some philosophy about palm reading. Why do traits not necessarily show up. ...

Excellent request Yogiman!

Basically I think you should first become aware that hand signs are NEVER EVER associated with just one 'theme'. However, unfortunately this insight goes frontal against the basic concept used in traditional hand reading (palmistry)... Exclamation

Does this make sense so far?

( pirat )



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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  yogiman on Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:47 pm

Well, as this goes against the traditional view, that means that traditional palmistry must have been wrong. As a consequence, all professional palmists on this forum will make themselves guilty of a suggestive reading approach. And the reason that I put faith in palmistry is that it has a long and universal tradition. So I am not sure whether I understand you well. At the end of -the spellbinding power of palmistry- Fincham gives an example read. Is his approach fluid instead of fixed?

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Lynn on Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:07 pm

yogiman wrote:Dear Lynn,
don't try to distort the facts.

yogiman, I would appreciate an answer to my question:
How am I distorting facts / which facts am I distorting?
thanks

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Lynn on Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:14 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
yogiman wrote:...

So what I like to have now is some philosophy about palm reading. Why do traits not necessarily show up. ...

Excellent request Yogiman!

Yes it is an excellent question.
This is off-topic to mental illness, but I remember years ago, one day I did readings for 1) a woman with a brain tumour 2) a man who had bowel cancer  3) a woman who had an abscess on her backside.  Of the three of them, there were more signs of ill health on the lady who had the abscess. I expected such severe health problems would show on the hand, I didn't understand why her health appeared worse on her hand than the other two (although the others had already undergone medical treatment). Maybe I didn't have enough palmistry knowledge in those days, or maybe it just didn't show??!
(edit - same with the psychopath discussed earlier, I never understood why that hand appeared the most 'normal' of all the hands we looked at during the mental health seminar).

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  Lynn on Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:29 pm

yogiman wrote:Well, as this goes against the traditional view, that means that traditional palmistry must have been wrong. As a consequence, all professional palmists on this forum will make themselves guilty of a suggestive reading approach.  And the reason that I put faith in palmistry is that it has a long and universal tradition. So I am not sure whether  I understand you well. At the end of -the spellbinding power of palmistry- Fincham gives an example read. Is his approach fluid instead of fixed?
I'm not sure of your point here because not all palmists on this forum use the traditional approach.?

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Re: VII - Can Mental Illness be Diagnosed from the Palm?I

Post  learner on Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:24 am

Martijn (admin) wrote:
learner wrote:
In the extravert - intravert study, Martijn had developed a formula that gave him very good results for identifying extraverts and intraverts. Is there any such formula for identifying mental illness or handicap?

So far such formulas are only available for various mental handicaps (syndromes).

PS. Regarding the extraversion-introversion project: during the past week I have made new progress,  and I expect to be able to present new guidelines related to the dermatoglyphics (which will also fit in the earlier presented concept which suggests that it is important to analyse the ulnar- and radial side of the hand separately... especially the PALM of the hand).

Thanks for reply Martijn. I'm looking forward to the presentation of new guidelines.

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