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The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

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The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:19 am

Hi,
These are the hands of an Alzheimer's patient. She can utter a few half-words by combining couple of starting letters, remembers things very well. But, doesn't have control on her body. For eating, getting up, sitting, any movements etc...she is dependent on others. To summarize, she has no control of her body from her mind.

In the pics below, please ignore the ink, as I forgot to take the pics before taking ink print.
I have put couple of pics after washing her inked hands. So, pls again, ignore the darkness of her hands.

Her finger print pattern is:
RIGHT HAND( from thumb to little finger): Double Loop,?, Whorl, Whorl, Whorl
LEFT HAND( from thumb to little finger): Ulnar loop, Double loop , Whorl, Whorl, Whorl

What do you think is her RIGHT HAND's index finger's finger print?
Also -
What indications can you see in the hand that indicate that she has/could have developed Alzheimer's?
Few things I noticed are:
- A loop in the beginning of her left hand's head line, once it gets separated from life line.
- A Mars attack line which goes from inside the life line to the heart line. Noticeably, this is as thick as any major line. I take it as dividing: the upper section of the hand with the lower section. The same line is appearing in her left hand, with the same sharpness/thickness as that of a major line. She is my friend's mother. He told that as such there hasn't been any bad/severe incidents in her past that has caused her tension/problem etc - which is usually indicated by this Mars attack line. So, I think, this is a dividing line, which is separating her upper section of the hand( which is for consciousness) with the lower section of the hand( which is body related).
- This Mars attack line touches her heart line under/before the Mercury finger. So, her Mercury finger and its below portion till the mount of Moon are connected. I think, that's why she has retained her ability to speak, to think about herself. Do you agree too?
- She has strange finger print on her left hand's index finger.
- Double loops on index of left hand and thumb of right hand are horizontally residing( Can this be a strange consideration)
- The section above the heart line in her left hand, has many crisscross lines.

What other observations can you make out?

Its a fire shaped hand, with fire skin texture.


















What is the finger print pattern on RIGHT HAND index finger?




Last edited by Kiran.Katawa on Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:24 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Punctuation corrections, Added another observation.)

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Alzheimers markers

Post  Sue Miller on Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:04 pm

Hi Kiran, I'd say the index is a variation of a peacock as I only see one triradii, but I am intrigued by the strange pattern on the third phalange of the third finger, wonder what that means.
I've never heard of a mars attack line and would interpret that as a powerful member of the family having an important effect on a love relationship, what do others think?

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Sari on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:07 am

Hi, I agree with Sue regarding this long influence line which almost reaches the area of marriage lines on the heart line. This appears to be an influence line which affected the person's marriage or love life at a particular time in her life (around age early twenties I'd say).
I have this line on my palm which In my view was the start of a downhill phase in my marriage, I have since divorced, but it wasn't anything to do with family influence (unless the ex-husband himself is classed as family, i guess that could be right too.)

The only negative sign for a disease or health issues that seems to stand out is the life line, the way in which it begins strong with a secondary life line, then suddenly weakens around age 40, and even clashing with the fate line around age 48? approximately.


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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:23 am

Sue Miller wrote:Hi Kiran, I'd say the index is a variation of a peacock as I only see one triradii, but I am intrigued by the strange pattern on the third phalange of the third finger, wonder what that means.
I've never heard of a mars attack line and would interpret that as a powerful member of the family having an important effect on a love relationship, what do others think?
Thank you Sue.
About the 3rd phalange(lower/basal phalange. right?) of 3rd finger(Are you referring to Saturn or Apollo?): Which hand are you referring to?
What I meant by "Mars Attack" line is the influence/stress line which comes from mars.
Even, I too had the same thought as you have mentioned here. But, my friend(the patient's son) said that there was no such problem in her life!
And that's the only one indicator which I see as separatore of mental zone and physical zone.

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:26 am

Sari wrote:
The only negative sign for a disease or health issues that seems to stand out is the life line, the way in which it begins strong with a secondary life line, then suddenly weakens around age 40, and even clashing with the fate line around age 48? approximately.

Hi Sari,
My friend told me that there hasn't be any significant proble in her relationships/marriage life. Infact, her husband is still with her!.

B.t.w. yes Sari, I too noticed the changes on her life line and its complete merging with with fate line and its getting weaker after that!
Any other things you can notice?

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Alzheimer's patient

Post  Sue Miller on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:19 am

Hi Kiran, yeah it's on the right hand Apollo basal phalange ( nearest the palm) I used a magnifying glass to see it properly, the Saturn base phalange same hand looks as if it has a bit of pattern also but not as much as the Apollo. I looked again at the Index pattern you mentioned and I do now see two triradii, so I guess this is a whorl variation.

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Alzheimer's patient

Post  Sue Miller on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:28 am

Hi Sari, could your Mother in law have been a strong influence on her son, maybe there was some jealousy or possessiveness on her part, from what you have said previously about him he likes to get his own way! maybe he had too much of her attention and wasn't getting yours! Anyway it's all in the past....forward!!!

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:41 pm

Sue Miller wrote:Hi Kiran, yeah it's on the right hand Apollo basal phalange ( nearest the palm) I used a magnifying glass to see it properly, the Saturn base phalange same hand looks as if it has a bit of pattern also but not as much as the Apollo. I looked again at the Index pattern you mentioned and I do now see two triradii, so I guess this is a whorl variation.
Hi Sue, if the pattern on basal phalange of Apollo looks like a special pattern, what ideally is the pattern which should be here? Do you also look for patterns(normal) on the basal phalanges of other fingers too?

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Ramann on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:44 pm

Hello Kiran,

You can observe a star formation on the intuition line at the head line junction in right hand.The lower branch of the head line (faint) touches an island on the mount of mars.

Nobis

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Patti on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:44 pm

Sue Miller wrote:Hi Kiran, yeah it's on the right hand Apollo basal phalange ( nearest the palm) I used a magnifying glass to see it properly, the Saturn base phalange same hand looks as if it has a bit of pattern also but not as much as the Apollo. I looked again at the Index pattern you mentioned and I do now see two triradii, so I guess this is a whorl variation.



Hi Sue,
It's difficult to tell with the deep vertical creases cutting into the skin what kind of pattern is really there. Here is how Cummins & Midlo illustrated and labelled the various patterns found on the middle and proximal phalanges.
From: Finger Prints Palms & Soles


I think the disorganized ridges on the middle finger's proximal phalange of the right hand is likely the congenital malformation of ridges called aplasia. It can be in a small patch, as here, or rarely in larger areas. (It'd be interesting if this is common in people where the alzheimers is known to be hereditary.)



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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:39 pm

Patti wrote:



Hi Sue,
It's difficult to tell with the deep vertical creases cutting into the skin what kind of pattern is really there.
...

Yes Patti, you're right: there is no 'whorl' on the basal phalange of the middle finger (there is only a misleading visual effect resulting from the vertical lines) - the 2nd picture of the same hand displays clear evidence that the ridges alignment is just normal, see below:

https://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/16/28/53/36/08042013.jpg


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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Patti on Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:09 pm

Hi Martijn, they are talking about the ring finger. The apparent abnormal markings are on the middle finger, but just above where the photo cuts off.

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:13 am

Ramann wrote:Hello Kiran,

You can observe a star formation on the intuition line at the head line junction in right hand.The lower branch of the head line (faint) touches an island on the mount of mars.

Nobis
Hi Raman, Yes, I noticed the star formation. But, I amn't getting the island on mount of Mars. Can you pls point that out?
And strangely, since, she has the line of intuition, I asked my friend (her son) whether she possess any intuitive abilities and he denied of any suck skills/experiences in her!

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:15 am

Hi Patti/Martijn,
Can you see any indicators in her hand which confirms the Alzheimer's?
Also, what do you categorize the index finger's finger print as?

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Patti on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:52 am

The central part looks like a true Twin Loop pattern with a radial and ulnar loop. There also appears to be another loop coming in over the top of this pattern, but there is a deep crease cutting right where it appears to loop making the details unclear. Is there a 3rd loop? If so, then it would be in the category of Accidental. Both patterns are technically subcategories of Whorls in forensics.

I wish we had before and after images to compare to see if the Alzheimers has caused any obvious changes. You could search pub med for reports that compare dermatoglyphics and Alzheimers' patients for markers that might be in your friend's mom's hands.




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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Patti on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:03 am

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1479321


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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Patti on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:49 am

There is definitely a loop or 'enclosure' pattern on the right middle finger's middle phalange.


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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Kiran.Katawa on Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:54 am

Hello Patti, thank you for the links. I visited the site and read couple of articles there. I couldn't find any matching patterns in these hands.

About hereditary: Its not hereditary. She is the only in her family's history with this disease.

Unfortunately, I/my friend don't have her hand pics before the disease. However, do you find meaning in the points I have mentioned or do you notice anything in the hand which indicates that she has severe problems related to mind. What is your opinion about the strongly cutting influnce line(Mars attack line)?

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:15 am

Patti wrote:Hi Martijn, they are talking about the ring finger. The apparent abnormal markings are on the middle finger, but just above where the photo cuts off.

Regarding the basal phalange of the middle finger: no, I have considered the details very carefully. If there had been a whorl, the lower side should have been visible in the 2nd photo.

PS. I also noticed that zooming in on the first photo makes the visual effect largely disappear, only the appearant triradius-shape figure continues to be visible... but the 2nd photo really shows that there is no triradius at that location at all: but the single inkdot that creates the triradius-like visual effect is visible there as well....!


(I don't understand Sue's comment regarding the basal phalange of the ring finger, because there is only a strange pattern noticable in the first photo on the middle finger - Sue only mentioned the middle finger in her first post where she made her observation regarding the basal phalanges)

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Alzheimer's patient

Post  Sue Miller on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:35 pm

mmm I see a bit of confusion has arisen over which finger I was talking about, it was the right hand, and the basal phalange of the Apollo finger I was referring to in my first post, and now I look again I do see a radial loop on the middle phalange of the middle finger on the same hand (right), any ideas on an interpretation for that? What an interesting discussion Kiran has prompted!

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Patti on Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:40 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Patti wrote:Hi Martijn, they are talking about the ring finger. The apparent abnormal markings are on the middle finger, but just above where the photo cuts off.

Regarding the basal phalange of the middle finger: no, I have considered the details very carefully. If there had been a whorl, the lower side should have been visible in the 2nd photo.

PS. I also noticed that zooming in on the first photo makes the visual effect largely disappear, only the appearant triradius-shape figure continues to be visible... but the 2nd photo really shows that there is no triradius at that location at all: but the single inkdot that creates the triradius-like visual effect is visible there as well....!


(I don't understand Sue's comment regarding the basal phalange of the ring finger, because there is only a strange pattern noticable in the first photo on the middle finger - Sue only mentioned the middle finger in her first post where she made her observation regarding the basal phalanges)

I think everyone is mentioning the whorl in regards to the right index fingerprint.

Kiran asked Sue which finger she meant as the 3rd finger and she said Apollo which I redescribed as the ring finger.
lol!

Regardless, there does appear to be some kind of ridge disturbance on the proximal phalange of the 3rd or middle finger (Saturn).

Kiran, could you share the inkprint of this area?

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Patti on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:08 pm

Sue Miller wrote:mmm I see a bit of confusion has arisen over which finger I was talking about, it was the right hand, and the basal phalange of the Apollo finger I was referring to in my first post, and now I look again I do see a radial loop on the middle phalange of the middle finger on the same hand (right), any ideas on an interpretation for that? What an interesting discussion Kiran has prompted!

Laughing

You were posting as I was composing my post and I didn't see you had posted until after.

If you notice the scanned section from Cummins & Midlo, I uploaded about the pattern on the phalanges, it says this pattern is only seen on the proximal phalange! This would mean they didn't see one in their studies. I'd say that makes this fairly rare!

It'd be one of those things where you ask that person who is 1 in a million (or a few thousand) what is different about them from everyone else. It'd probably either be something so unique and obvious, or something impossible to identify.

I associate the ridges to our neurological wiring. Our ability to perceive and respond to our environment. Obviously something is wired differently. Very Happy

If it were directly related to the Alzheimers, it would have likely been observed in the studies done.

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:23 pm

Sue Miller wrote:mmm I see a bit of confusion has arisen over which finger I was talking about, it was the right hand, and the basal phalange of the Apollo finger I was referring to in my first post, and now I look again I do see a radial loop on the middle phalange of the middle finger on the same hand (right), any ideas on an interpretation for that? What an interesting discussion Kiran has prompted!

Okay, thanks for taking away the confusion.

Sorry Sue, for me it is obvious that there are no patterns at all on the basal phlange of any finger (nor on the 2nd phalanges of the fingers).


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:27 pm

Kiran.Katawa wrote:...

What is the finger print pattern on RIGHT HAND index finger?



Hello Kiran,

Sorry for not answering your question at an earlier stage.

But I think the answer is simple: this is a typical 'double loop' - so your assessment is correct!

(I don't see any ground for a discussion - because for example a peacock would require that the whorling ridges do not pass the imaginary line between the two triradii - which is not the case here and therefore this fingerprint can for sure not be described as a 'peacock'; it's quite a mystery to me why Sue assumes that there is only one triradius... because apart from that the 2 triradii have a different shape, that does not provide a ground to assume that there is only one triradius)


EDIT:

Kiran, regarding your basic question: 'how to recognize hand characteristics in Alzheimer disease?'

I think the answer is that this is hardly possible! Because even twin studies (discordant for Alzheimer disease) have shown that the dermatoglyphics show hardly any typical characteristics - nor in the major hand lines, nor in the nails (only some scientific reports described that Alzheimer disease is featured with atypical hand features related to the dermatoglypics & hand lines), see:
http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/50/3/333.full.pdf

Therefore I expect that it probably would require a thorough testing of psycho-motoric hand skills in order to identify Alzheimer disease via the hand. But I have never seen any report which claims that this can be done reliably.

So, I guess for this topic we are confronted with that our knowledge might not be enough to find solid answers for your basic question!


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:00 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: The Hands of Alzheimer's Patient

Post  Patti on Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:34 pm

Can you see a radial loop pattern flowing across the top of this double or twin loop of the whorl category?

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