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which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

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which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  sv-b on Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:40 am

I have described 3 various timing of fate line below as followed by different schools of palmistry. can experts, who have many years of experience, say which among this three is being perfect in your practice?

a)Westerns commonly apply the time scale by marking the junction of fate and head line as 35years, and junction between heart and fate line as 50years.

b)some says in Vedic school of palmistry that timing of fate line varies when reading the hand of females. For instance, junction between head and fate line indicates 30 years and junction between heart and fate line is 45 years.

c) Another school of traditional palmistry claims that junction between fate and head line indicates 30 years and junction between heart and fate indicates 40 years.

Experts or beginners, who so ever, please come forward to clear this doubt and share your experiences in detail?

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  pravin kumar on Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:02 pm

[b][i]

Stalin,

I take 2/3rds of the distance between the base of the palm i..e the rascatte and edge of saturn finger to be 35 years in a normal palm which is neither long from rascette to the edge of the Saturn Finger nor broad. There is no scale measurement that I use. I generally use my intuition more in calculating this and this method is prescribed in Cheiro's Palmistry book though he has illustrated it differently but it ultimately results in what I have written.

Pravin Kumar

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  sv-b on Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:21 pm

Hello praveen, Smile

Thanks for input.

Upendra singh contacted me through phone two days before and answered to this question. Indeed, he is the first person gave me the material "sariraka sastra" (work of 400 years old material of karthekeyan system of tamil palmistry translated by v.a.k iyer , which deals about 153 lines on palm).

He advised me to divide the distance between lower crease of saturn finger to wrist line into 4 equal parts. Time the first part begining from wrist line to first portion 21 years, second part for 22-29, Third portion for 30-50years, and last fourth portion for 50-100 years. He advised me that this time gauge of fate line seems accurate much.

Hope, Upendraji will share his experience more in future.

- Regards, stalin.v

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  anu_d on Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:03 am

The junction of fate and head-line is defnitely 35...that is verifiable multiple times over in many hands.

thereafter it gets narrow and difficult....however the junction of fate and heart-line = 57 is a often , but not always verifiable junction.

Beyond the heart-line the timing is more individualistic as not every individual is active from a creer poitn of view for too long beyond 57.

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:57 am


Hello Stalin, Pravin Kumar & Anu_d,

Sounds to me that each of you describes a different approach to 'time' the fate line.
And I assume that all three of you assume that 'your model' is working just fine (and the models used by others are less 'accurate' etc.).

By the way, there are even more models for timing the 'fate line' available...!


Maybe this collection of different opinions illustrates that 'timing the lines of the hand' is probably just a matter of perception and preference!

And a sensible implication of these different perceptions appears to be: that (very likely) none of these models are really 'successfull', nor better than other models.
That is: 'not successful' in the sense that none of these models have been accepted by the majority of palmists!

But nevertheless, I am aware that predictive palmistist usually 'claims' that his/her model usually works just fine...!!!?

thinking Doesn't this worry you?


PS. I have noticed the same patterns for 'timing' the life line, heart line and head line: there are various models available for those lines as well; and I think the 'conflicting' facts described by the various models... explain why many hand readers today do not use any of these 'time' models.



Just another example of just another model (presented by Jonathan Waxman - a Jewish palmist in London):


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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  anu_d on Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:51 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
Hello Stalin, Pravin Kumar & Anu_d,

Sounds to me that each of you describes a different approach to 'time' the fate line.
And I assume that all three of you assume that 'your model' is working just fine (and the models used by others are less 'accurate' etc.).

By the way, there are even more models for timing the 'fate line' available...!


Maybe this collection of different opinions illustrates that 'timing the lines of the hand' is probably just a matter of perception and preference!

And a sensible implication of these different perceptions appears to be: that (very likely) none of these models are really 'successfull', nor better than other models.
That is: 'not successful' in the sense that none of these models have been accepted by the majority of palmists!

But nevertheless, I am aware that predictive palmistist usually 'claims' that his/her model usually works just fine...!!!?

thinking Doesn't this worry you?


PS. I have noticed the same patterns for 'timing' the life line, heart line and head line: there are various models available for those lines as well; and I think the 'conflicting' facts described by the various models... explain why many hand readers today do not use any of these 'time' models .

==>Dear Martijn,
If one predicts using "his" model......and he gets the right answers that are validted.....then I have no worry.
Right answer means he is able to validate the past events in the +/-1 year window

Proof is in the pudding....isn't it Smile
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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:23 pm

anu_d wrote:
==>Dear Martijn,
If one predicts using "his" model......and he gets the right answers that are validted.....then I have no worry.
Right answer means he is able to validate the past events in the +/-1 year window

Proof is in the pudding....isn't it Smile

Dear Anu_d,

From my point of view, my perception on this 'pudding' is... I have seen no proof at all! - All I see are conflicting models and unsubstantiated claims/observations.

In this perspective, using a different method... should simply lead to a different result!
I hope we can agree on that!?

And basically, if everybody is using a different method... and finds EXACTLY the same result: 'my method is right'... I think that should raise a very serious question:

What is really going on here in this matter???
(I think there is at least a lot of psychology and subjective observation involved)


But I noticed in your answer that you do not share my worries. So, I guess you provide no space at all for a thorough discussion - since you assume that your model works just fine.

Sorry, I think that these 'time'-models merely create illusions - simply because people want to attribute meaning to any characteristic of the hand. All 'time'-models factually violate Holtzman's fundamental no.1 rule of modern hand reading! (I hope you are aware of that rule)

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thought.


Thanks!


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  anu_d on Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm

Martijn (admin) wrote:
anu_d wrote:
==>Dear Martijn,
If one predicts using "his" model......and he gets the right answers that are validted.....then I have no worry.
Right answer means he is able to validate the past events in the +/-1 year window

Proof is in the pudding....isn't it Smile

Dear Anu_d,

From my point of view, my perception on this 'pudding' is... I seen no proof at all! - I only see only conflicting models and unsubstantiated claims/observations.

==>.actually I do not see a VAST conflict between models especially in the early to mid life ranges.
In this perspective, using a different method... should simply lead to a different result!
I hope we can agree on that!?

==>>a slightly diffrent result not a VASTLY diffrent result
And basically, if everybody is using a different method... and finds EXACTLY the same result:

==>>Who said EXACTLY...that's where you have gone tangential....you assumed EXACTLY SmileAll 'time'-models factually violate Holtzman's fundamental no.1 rule of modern hand reading! (I hope you are aware of that rule)

==>>I am not..please share the Holtzman's rule
.


Thanks!
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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  pravin kumar on Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:11 pm

[b][i]

Dear Martijn,

I did not say that others following different age prediction are wrong. I follow what I have found comes right quite often. Benham takes 70 yeas from the bottom rascatte to the edge of the Saturn Finger and Narayan Dutt Shrimali takes it as 100 years and Cheiro takes it as 91 or 98 (Don't remember exactly what). Others are welcome to theri way of calculating. I follow the simple principle of first finding certain facts from the palm and give age prediction and from the verification I get as to the correctness or otherwise of the age I go further accordingly making slight adjustment. What I state is what I follow and others are welcome to use their methods.

Pravin Kumar


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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:02 am

anu_d wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
Dear Anu_d,

From my point of view, my perception on this 'pudding' is... I seen no proof at all! - I only see only conflicting models and unsubstantiated claims/observations.

==>.actually I do not see a VAST conflict between models especially in the early to mid life ranges.
In this perspective, using a different method... should simply lead to a different result!
I hope we can agree on that!?

==>>a slightly diffrent result not a VASTLY diffrent result
And basically, if everybody is using a different method... and finds EXACTLY the same result:

==>>Who said EXACTLY...that's where you have gone tangential....you assumed EXACTLY SmileAll 'time'-models factually violate Holtzman's fundamental no.1 rule of modern hand reading! (I hope you are aware of that rule)

==>>I am not..please share the Holtzman's rule
.


Thanks!

Hello Anu_d,

Holtzman's fundamental no.1 rule says (page 2 in 'Psychodiagnostic Chirology in Analysis ande Therapy'):

"There is one rule in hand reading in psychological diagnosis which overrides all others. This one rule holds that everything modifies everything else. Everything has an influence on everything else, and everything is influenced by everything else."

But this rule is applicable beyond 'psychological diagnosis' as well. For, it relates to a major difference between:
1- the 'absolute' classic Indian approach (which origins in the Vedas),
2 -the 'complex' modern approach... which relates basically to the 'art of combination'!

All timing models use a principle which basically presents a conflict regarding the 'art of combination'... because I have never seen in any of these models that using combinations is a requirement to find the ages of events.

So, this might explain why the 'timing models' have been popular for a while (during the 19th + 20th century), but I have never seen any clue which says that these 'timing models' were an element of the classic Indian approach.

Have you?


Anu_d, Thumbs up! ... thanks for confirming that the various models indeed produce different results!

And yes, I agree: we could argue about the implications of these difference - especially since regarding 'age' there is factually little space for arguing.

An age 'prediction' is correct, or it is not correct... accepting imperfections combined with using 'loose' criteria... might actually confirm that these methods at the end probably do not work anyway. By the way, from my point of view this also explains why so many different models became manifest. Many of the palmistry experts who use these models, 'claim' that they have created their own variant, etc. etc.


Nevertheless, it is an interesting topic for discussion!!

Anu_d, thank you for your input so far.

Thanks!

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:16 am

pravin kumar wrote:[b][i]

Dear Martijn,

I did not say that others following different age prediction are wrong. I follow what I have found comes right quite often. Benham takes 70 yeas from the bottom rascatte to the edge of the Saturn Finger and Narayan Dutt Shrimali takes it as 100 years and Cheiro takes it as 91 or 98 (Don't remember exactly what). Others are welcome to theri way of calculating. I follow the simple principle of first finding certain facts from the palm and give age prediction and from the verification I get as to the correctness or otherwise of the age I go further accordingly making slight adjustment. What I state is what I follow and others are welcome to use their methods.

Pravin Kumar


Hello mister Pravin Kumar,

Don't worry - I am aware that you haven't claimed that other models are 'wrong'.. but I am aware that some of our discussion partners (in various forums over the past - sorry, I can not give any quotes).. do think that there is only one model that 'truely' works (and they were refering to the model that they use themselves of course!!).

I hope you at have recognized that there are really quite a few 'different' models available (I am not talking about 'only' 2 or 3 slight differences between various models - maybe I will take some day the initiative to present various examples).

Anyway, thanks for explaining your approach, and yes I would be nice if we create an overview of the various method (as described by various authors) for each line.


wave



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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  sv-b on Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:26 am

Hello martijn, Smile

Too Hilarious....

Holzman's rule of "everything" seems to be nothing more than "Nothing" Banana waving

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:14 pm

stalin.v wrote:Hello martijn, Smile

Too Hilarious....

Holzman's rule of "everything" seems to be nothing more than "Nothing" Banana waving

Dear Stalin... Oh...nooo!

I like bananas... but how 'smart' is your comment really???
Are you really still not able to make anything out of Holtzman's very 'fundamental' rule?

affraid ... your words basically indicate that you still don't understand the essential element of Western hand reading today:

'Western hand reading' = the art of combining various hand characterstics.


PS. Have you ever seen any 'combination' described in a book about 'classic Indian palmistry'? thinking Well, I guess this is one of the reasons why many Indian palmists many years ago have started adopting the Western approach (and rejected the 'fatalistic' approach - which has traditionally focussed on single hand characteristics)

I think Cheiro had already understood that the 'traditional tunnel-vison' is no longer realistic at all, if it ever was, for he started his 'CHEIRO'S LANGUAGE OF THE HAND' with the words:

"Palmistry should really mean the study of the hand in it's entirety..."

Stalin... I hope you are able to understand what Cheiro meant with these words (which describe basically exactly the same principle described by Hotlzman's no.1. rule). But don't get me wrong, I am not a 'fan' of Cheiro's work - but for other reasons.


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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  sv-b on Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:57 pm

Hello martijn, Smile

It is really your ignorance when you claim that there is no combinatory study in indian system of palmistry. Some indian school of palmistry exclusively read the palm with combinatory features of palm line, mount etc., Those combinatory studies are termed as 'yog' in india.

Here i give you the link for you to study about indian method of reading palm in combinations.

http://www.indianetzone.com/26/baggy_yog_or_combination_luck.htm

Happy reading Smile

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:50 pm


Dear Stalin,

I was talking about 'classic palmistry' only, but I have doubts about the role of the 'Yog' in Indian palmistry. Let me explain this with a few more observations...


First of all, I do remember that you've introduced the topic of 'Yogs' in earlier discussions. But I am not sure at all the concept of the 'Yog' was really present in 'classic Indian palmistry'.

Why? - Simply because I think the 'Yog' has never been mentioned in any Western palmistry book about the history of palmistry, and therefor I suspect that it could very well be a 'modern' variant in Indian palmistry - taken from Indian astrology!

For, I think the 'Yog' is a typical example of how Indian astrology manifests in Indian palmistry. For, the definition of a 'Yog' appears to be directly related to astrology.

By the way the original word appears to be: a 'yoga', see: http://www.dirah.org/yogas.htm

"A unique characteristic of Indian astrology are the yoga’s. Yoga’s are planetary positions that lead to a certain result. We have already discussed one yoga, that of raja yoga."


Stalin, I know that many 'Yogs' has been described in a few books published by Indian palmistry authors over the past few decades.

But I am wondering, was the concept of the 'Yog' also included in 'classic' Indian palmistry as described in the Vedas?

Sorry, so far... I don't thinks so!

(But I hope that this is a point where it was me who made a wrong assumption... again, you're very welcome to present evidence that disproofs my 'not-well-informed' opinon about the role of the 'Yog' in Indian palmistry)


wave

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  sv-b on Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:14 pm

Hello martijn, Smile

I think, Astro-palmistry is only practiced in india. what's your opinion? The word "yog" also used in many aspect of hinduism. ie., meditation techniques, Tantra practices, astrology etc.,

Thus, I believe that yog study on palmistry is belongs to indian system of palmistry.

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:38 pm

stalin.v wrote:Hello martijn, Smile

I think, Astro-palmistry is only practiced in india. what's your opinion? The word "yog" also used in many aspect of hinduism. ie., meditation techniques, Tantra practices, astrology etc.,

Thus, I believe that yog study on palmistry is belongs to indian system of palmistry.

Okay Stalin,

Thanks for your first response... but I hope that you will continue your search for the first manifestion of the 'Yog' in palmistry.

For, I repeat: so far I think the 'Yog' has been mentioned in only a few (recent) books about Indian palmistry - and these books are certainly not very old:
- Dr.Narayan Dutt Shrimali - 'Practical Palmistry' (2004)
- Dr. Bhojraj Dwivedi - 'Wonders of Palmistry' (2002)

Stalin, do you know any older titles where 'Yogs' are described?


Thanks!

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  sv-b on Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Hello martijn, Smile

Obviously, I am naive in astro- palmistry and beginner in astrology. Hence, I cannot give you the earliest books on yog study. However, I will surely emphasis the treasure of ancient works on indian palmistry over
a period of time. Till now, I have never searched for palmistry classics deliberately. The books which i have are just accidental.( most of them i got from railway stations of india when i do rare travels).

p.s: I admire your collection of book. wondering why you are not following predictive palmistry ( may be due to cultural adaptation ). still, i suggest you that make an research on indian palmistry through your indian palmistry books and apply it in your practice. Indeed, you can become a best predictive palmist like the celebrated british predictive palmist. cheiro. I am well sure about it. can you present cheiro's palm in the forum?

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 05, 2010 4:02 pm


Hey Stalin, Cheiro's palm is already featured in this forum (section VIa) - see:

http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/via-famous-hands-the-hands-of-celebrities-honourable-individuals-remarkable-people-f23/the-hand-of-cheiro-the-most-famous-palmist-of-all-times-t39.htm

Rock on!

PS. I am looking forward to see you comment about his hand! lol!

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Timing on Fateline

Post  Patti on Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:03 pm

I've found that the fate line is unreliable for consistent dating (same age, same spot on all hands) except for the area where it crosses the head line. Reading that crossing point as around mid 30's 'works' for me in a general sort of way. Sometimes even in confirmation to changes at the same age on the life ine.

Also, I have found that in reality, the fate line marks itself downwards in parallel to the lifeline from around early to mid 30's (age on life line). This method (not a system) would show the fate line marks itself in response to current events in one area, yet can still be read in the other area (crossing head line). I read the direction of the fate line as it crosses the headline as defining the directions in life a person is pulled toward whereas the markings that appear in parallel to the life line, are more related to current situations. I haven't thought to document this previously, but now that I have, I will watch for it and take some photos.

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Upendrasingh Bhadoriya on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:16 pm

Respected Martijn
Namaste,
Many yog are given in Vedic astrology and one more thing practitioner of astrology and palmistry had mixed astrological terminology with palmistry. You have mentioned two name of gentlemen, they were very popular in north or north-west India. One of them dared to fit astrological yogs in palmistry which are not applicable to practical palmistry. I have both books(Hindi Version) and tried many times to use them but they are not applicable and some of them are impossible formation of lines as shown in pictures of book. Rest is OK.
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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:31 pm


Hello mister Upendrasingh Bhadoriya,

Thank you again for sharing your experience again at this forum. Your comment is very specified and therefore quite usefull. Thumbs up!

Are you aware that other authors of (older) palmistry books have described the topic of the 'yog' as well? (Maybe books written in other than English language?)


Thanks!

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Upendrasingh Bhadoriya on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:56 pm

Thank You Martijn for your prompt reply,
I have one Hindi book named “Sachitra Samudrik Rahsyam” written by Late Pt. KalikaPrasad ( Rajjyotishi Of Banaras State)(Royal Astrologer of Banaras State) having good palmistry in form of ‘Shloka’ printed in Samvat 1984 means before 84 year i.e. 1924 AD in which 25 Yogs are given in separate chapter named “Yogavali”.
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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:09 pm


Excellent! Thank you for sharing that info!!

Thumb up

PS. One more question: can you please confirm that this is exactly the title of the book: "Sachitra Samudrik Rahsyam"... no spelling mistake?

(Let me explain: I am wondering about the 'spelling' because I can not find any info about this title...???)

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Re: which time scale of fate line fits in your practice?

Post  sv-b on Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:19 pm

Do westerns want to know the sources of palmistry through these kind of moves? can you clarify it? world already knows about sun bath of stone age man .. I will be funny , impersonal, and selfless Smile

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