How to discriminate a simian crease from a Sydney line and a Suwon crease!

Lynn wrote:Yes it makes sense to change it. All along I have not understood why they used their temrinology "accessory II" for main headline. I / we always thought that the main headline should be II and the part joined to the heartline should be accessory II.

Patti wrote:

I'll leave you two to develop the "VanMensvoort Improved Analysis of Palm Creases"

Lynn wrote:Yes Martijn I recognise how it makes the length requirement more sensible.

However in making these changes, we are using a different vocabulary to the researchers. I feel sure that normally you would never advocate doing such a thing!
It could even make the discussion more complicated (eg in instances when talking about accessory crease II - are we discussing your new definition or the researchers definition.)

Okay Lynn, thanks again for your feedback.


Yes you are right... I would not advocate such a thing easily. But I am not really introducing a 'different vocabulary': because if the researchers had not used the word 'accessory' in their two examples for the Sydney line and Suwon crease, I think we would not have been confronted with this problem at all.

Because in their writtings they only speak an: "... accessory II", which could be read as a '... a second II'; but we - in our discussions - started talking about 'accessory II', while the researcher have not done that explicitely.

Afterall, it tooks us about 9 months to find the clues provides in figure 5C... and some of us have read the details in the article over-and-over again (I am thinking about Patti).

So, I think we should make the Korean article more important than it really is. Their name 'accessory II' for a normal head line, and 'accessory III' for a normal head line... could easily be described as a servious fundamental mistake in their vocabulary... and I think this explains why their definition of the Suwon crease is so confusing... that some of use here think that they are observing Suwon creases in many hands (I am not only thining about Patti, others have also presented examples of relatively common hand line variants... which they assumed that it could include a Suwon crease).


Therefore...

For me, after being confronted with the problem that you described earlier today - directly resulting from their guidelines for the accessory crease in fig.5C - I could even speak about a CLEAR 'contradiction' in the Korean guidelines.


And after saying this... I can also report a few other 'contradictions' in how they presented their materials:

- Because by fact, in figure 3 they have defined the Sydney line as: 'II+III' plus accessory III, illustrated with a picture which shows a Sydney line compose by two line parts which each clearly have a different structure.
- But in figure 4 they have presented their no.1. Sydney variant as just one 'extended head line'. It would have made more sense it they had presented their 'Sydney 2' variant as the no.1 variant - because only then that would confirm the Sydney line formula.

(And I could describe a likewise problem regarding their illustration of the simian line: both example in figure 3 and the first Simian line variant in figure 4 do not confirm the formula)


And finally... that they also sort of re-defined the Sydney line in this article: by describing it with the formula:'II+II' plus 'accessory III. They should have mentioned that this concerns a RE-DEFINITION of how a Sydney line can be understood properly.


However, I also would like to add that I really do admire their efforts + their new method.

But unfortunately, from my point of view... after 9 months of discussion their vocabulary has not survived the 'test of time'. Simply because it is rather confusing in how they used the term 'accessory crease' in the perspective of both the Sydney line and the Suwon crease.

Anyway, I will continue to use their method to discriminate a simian line, from a Sydney line and a Suwon crease... but now it no longer makes sense for me to continue using their 'accessory' concept for a normal head line and a normal heat line.

Because obviously, they have followed the classic approach for defining an 'accessory crease' (described in figure 5C)... but then they did have not succeeded to INTEGRATE that classic approach properly in their new concepts for both the Sydney line and the Suwon crease.


Let's hope that, if the Korean re-definitions are adopted in new studies... then we should hope that the researchers will not follow that aspect of their Korean vocabulary.

Anyway, great to know that that my 'proposal' does make sense for you... but I don't expect any new problems. Instead, this actually solves a significant part of the problems that we have been confronted with in our discussions so far!

MyshMash wrote:Thanks Martijn. Here is a photo of my right hand and a close up of the left:





Any idea what the significance is of a suwon line?

jeanette wrote:On page 106 in John Manning's Finger Book It shows the hand of a Brazilian football player and I am sure it is has Suwon crease.

Well spotted Jeanette!


PS. Though the picture is unclear about 2 essential points:
- Is the upper head line connected to the heart line?
- And is the upper head line not connected to the life line?

IF the answer to the first question is a 'yes', and IF the answer to the second question a 'no'... then Manning's example can indeed be described as a Suwon crease.

(Unfortunately, we will never know for sure the answers)

Martijn (admin) wrote:- And is the upper head line not connected to the life line?

Parender wrote: The reason for reaching to this conclusion is this that this line reduces the gap between the two major lines.

jeanette wrote:... Do you know does the suwon crease appear mostly on the left hand. It says he is a footballer, but if he was a goalkeeper would it have stated that or does footballer mean goalkeeper as well. I was wondering about this when remembering what Patti said about the grip and he would be good at gripping the ball and saving goals.

Hi Jeanette,

So far I have seen it more often in the right hand - but that could very well be just coincidence. Basically, it can manifest in both hands... but usually in one hand only.

Yes, goalkeepers are included in the category 'footballer' (but the chance that this Brazilian footballer is a goalkeeper is probably only about 10%... but let's not waiste our time on that aspect because we will never know which position he plays; we better assume that he is not goalkeeper).

GM(Ghulam MURTAZA) wrote:Friends

There are normally following behaviors of this branch- line :

1) A branch leaves the heart line under different fingers.
2) Branch neatly mergers into brain line.
3) Branch just cuts fate line but does not touch the brain line.
4) Line drops at the start of brain line.
5)Branch line goes deeper into the area of lower mars cutting all main lines .........and so on.


A sharp razer like branch that falls from heart line under Saturn directing to the origin of life and brain line was termed by Pamela as BOD line( reflecting business potential) line.Lynn ,Patti and Martijn might remember it.

Should all above variants be grouped into "Suwon crease" ??