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is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

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is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  yogiman on Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:44 pm

I hope someone can tell me whether the two traditions contradict at certain points, or might the 8 trigram system possibly support the western palmistry?


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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:15 pm

yogiman wrote:I hope someone can tell me whether the two traditions contradict at certain points, or might the 8 trigram system possibly support the western palmistry?


Hi yogiman,

The trigrams are known to relate to wu xing, or "five elements"; you can read more about it at forum IIIb: the Elemental Chirology forum, see:
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/f3-iiib-elemental-chirology


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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  Lynn on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:40 pm

I think some of the people who attended the IBMBS conferences might know eg Dr Wang Chen, Mary Lai - Ed Campbell's colleagues.

someone posted about 8-trigram palmistry before
http://www.modernhandreadingforum.com/t1302-eight-trigram-in-the-hand

Serena Powers mentions two Chinese systems of palmistry
http://www.serenapowers.com/chinesepalmistry.html


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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  Martijn (admin) on Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:44 pm


Thanks Lynn!
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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  Lynn on Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:54 pm

some more references

Chinese Medical Palmistry: Your Health in Your Hand by Gary Liscum
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eWfedzeQMk0C&pg=PA187&lpg=#v=onepage&q&f=false


Chinese Traditions of Handreading by Christopher Jones
http://www.cheirology.net/history/chinese.htm


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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  yogiman on Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:14 pm

Thanks, tomorrow I set my teeth in it. Here is another link. (For an optimal view, press the button with the diagonal arrows, and zoom in with the +)

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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  yogiman on Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:25 pm

Whether coincidence or not, there are quite a few similarities with the 5 phase system.

The 8 trigram system is the same as used in feng shui, but in this case in the domain of the palm. With a few alterations to the diagram of serena's guide:

Trigram Position....................on Palm..........................Health.................................area
Zhen (Thunder)..............inner mars mount........The nervous system...............education
Sun (Wind/Wood)...............jupiter mount........... Liver and gallbladder..............wealth
Li (Fire) ........................between middle............. Heart, blood circulation ...........fame
.......................................and ring fingers..............and eyesight                                
Kun (Earth).....................mercurius mount.........Abdominal organs....mother and daughter
Dui (Marsh) ............outer mars mount....... Lungs and intestine.....wife,mistress,children
Qian (Heaven)....... ...............lunar mount........ Psychological condition..........father and
....................................................................................and the lungs................elder son
Kan (Water) .................mount of neptune....Kidney, reproductive system......inheritance
Gen (Mountain)....................venus mount........ Spleen and stomach...................brothers.
Ming Tang (Bright Hall).......plain of mars .........Mental health, heart and blood vessels.

First thing that strikes is that not all fingermounts are included. As all four sides of the palm have an outer, inner and middle trigram, there are only 3 trigrams for the four fingers. The upper trigram Li (the sun) does double duty, because it is situated between the middle and ring finger in order to get an even distance between those upper three trigrams. In the chinese system Li is the mediator between heaven and earth (jupiter mount and saturn mount respectively?).

With some effort it is possible to see connections between the trigrams and the mounts:
Thunder (zhen) is related to mars. A good nervous system gives courage.
The influence of the Wind(sun) "goes topdown", as with authority happens. Without ambition there is no gathering of wealth.
Earth (kun) is somewhat tricky. Kun is also the mother, who orders the household. This might be stretched to the order of growing processes within the earth. The mercurius mount is also about health, and the relationship with the earth is not farfetched. Noteworthy is that some call the stomach our gut-brain, and that in TCM the brain and the stomach are closely related as the one digests food, and the other digests thoughts.
Marsh (dui) refers to the open way of verbal communication, while the outer mars mount refers to the capability to express oneself.
Heaven (qian) is the big unknown, like the mystery of the astral moon. Both systems agree that psychological abnormalities are to be found in this region.
Neptune is the god of the deep Water (kan). The mount of neptune refers to transformation, which might be ascribed to the kidneys and the reproductive system.
Standing beneath or on top of the Mountain (gen) one tends to be awe-inspired by the  beauty of nature. The venus mount is the biggest of all mounts, and refers also to the sense of luxury and beauty.
The plain of mars refers to assertiveness (see Fincham). Clearly, this will not work without a healthy mind and heart.

The assignments under -area- are inconsistent and only partly correspond. Some are referred to family and others not. It is questionable whether they are original.

PS the opinions mentioned here are not flawless, and I am open to critique

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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  Lynn on Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:28 pm

hi yogiman, I will read it again and try to understand it. I think maybe some tentative connections made there.

One small question
"The plain of mars refers to assertiveness (see Fincham)"
Can you tell me please where Johnny says this? I have no memory of Johnny talking about plain of Mars & assertiveness, and I can't find it in his books, thanks.  wave 

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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  yogiman on Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:16 pm

Hi Lynn,

How to Read any Palm p.26:

Plain of Mars
This zone, which is never raised and is therefore technically not considered a mount, indicates assertiveness if it is crossed by a strong clear head line. This is a sign of an individual who is astute and successful with all his dealings with the world.

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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  Lynn on Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:23 pm

Thanks yogiman Smile I haven't got that book - is that the one that comes with the 'Palmistry at your fingertips' set with cards?

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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  yogiman on Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:33 pm

Yes, on the card of the palm mounts, I read:
plain of mars: assertiveness, astuteness

By the way, maybe it is tentative. If you search long enough, you will find? Though some similarities are pretty clear.

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Re: is chinese palmistry compatible with western palmistry

Post  yogiman on Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:42 am

Maybe it is interesting to point out the practical significance of this system. This is what Gary Liscum says about it:

The system of dividing the various areas of the palm according to the eight trigrams primarily basis its readings on the color and luster and the sinking or bulging on each location as well as any prominent blue veins appearing on the surface. A healthy, lustrous, rosy color, a normal bulge, and lack of prominent blue veins are all signs of good health and normalcy in the organs and functions associated with the trigram that rules that area. While abnormal colors, sunken flesh, and prominent blue veins suggest disease in the organs and functions associated with the ruling trigam of that area.

Zhen (at the inner mars mount)
If the lines are scattered with cross-shaped lines, star-shaped lines, and hair-shaped lines, this indicates nervousness from an imbalanced lifestyle. This type of individual will tend toward neurosis.

Li (between second and third finger)
If the lines are scattered with a dark color, then the heart function is relatively weak. If this area is recessed and sunken with blue veins showing on the surface, it ususally indicates that the heart's strength is weak or that heart fire is exuberant.

kun (at the mercurious mount)
If the lines are scattered andt there is a dark-colored skin, this indicates that the functions of the large and smalle intestines and urological system are relatively weak.
If the area is recessed and sunken with blue veins and bones near the surface and if the skin is dry with no blood color, it indicates that the reproductive function is relativly weak. Females with this sign will often suffer from infertility due to cold uterus, one of the causes of female infertility in TCM.

dui (at the outer mars mount)
If the lines are scattered and there is a dark-colored  rough skin, this indicates that the function of the respiratory system is relatively weak.
If the area is recessed and sunken with blue veins and bones near the surface and if the skin is dry with no blood color, it indicates that there is a respiratory or pulmonary emphysema.

quien (at the moon mount)
If the lines are scattered and there is a dark-colored skin, this usually indicates that the person is overly emotional. It also shows the tendency for qi depression and neurasthenia.
If the area is recessed and sunken with blue veins and bones near the surface and pale dry skin, this indicates that the respiratory system has effected health.

kan (at the mount of neptune)
If the lines are scattered and there is a dark-colored rough skin, this indicates that nutrition during childhood was poor.It further shows a weak physical condition that in adulthood will show a tendency to fatigue easily due to insufficient original qi.
If the area is recessed with very thin fles  with blue veins near the surface, it indicates a weak urological and reproductive system.
If the wrist creases are scattered and incomplete, it usually indicates insufficient function of the kidney. There is a tendency to infertility if the defect in this area is very serious.

ken (at the venus mount)
If this area is bulging with soft smooth flesh, it not only indicates good function of the stomach and spleen, but also good physical strength as the spleen is the root of latter heaven qi and blood transformation and engenderment.
An obvious dark color indicates that gastric disease is present.
If veins are highly visible and the area is recessed, sunken and thin, then the function of the stomach is usually insuffient.Generally, veins may be slightly visible on the surface and, if not very obvious, have no significance.

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