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III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

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DMIT & Medical Science

Post  cargoluxter on Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:03 pm

Question:
Bioinformatics elaborates two types of genes i.e. dominant and recessive genes. With dominant genes our known abilities/characters are described. whereas character and abilities of recessive genes are not expressed. How finger prints aids in the discription of recessive genes?

Well Martin.
as no one have replied to my last question posted.
but i am still hopeful to get the answer.

but to my best. i am adding a little extra to the whole debate.

imagine.. 100 years in past. from today..
when doctors say.. we can tell you about your blood pressure..
by just grabbing your arm..
lots and lots of people did not believe
how its possible to tell .. that.. our blood is flowing slow or fast.
but any how today.. no one argues..

i asked a doctor.. what is a chance that if both of the arms are tested. the result will match.
they say if a Professional doctor will take the test..
it would be 80 to 90 %

and if two different doctors will take the test of same arm..
the result will be different up-to .. 20 - 30 %

and if the same man just take a slow breath .. for the first arm test..
and later.. a hard breath for second arm test..
the difference would be.. 30 - 40 %

so.. i never see any one.. doubting .. about the process

here the claim of .. 80 % from DMIT organizations will be accepted only if their claim remains. that.. if two different companies take the test..
and their difference will be only.. 10 - 15 %

any how .. according to Sri Yukteswar
development of human minds depends on that
at what stage of youga he is
there are 4 yougas
if we believe that Egyptians have wireless electricity in those days..
then we have to believe that wireless communication age is not much of an advancement.

every nation is doom to be destroyed when they reach to the extent of a knowledge that is meant for them

what i think is.. right now DMIT is just a case.. based on statistical data analysis and supposition that the link exists between finger prints and mind..

if so .. then this study is yet have to be perfected.
as still medical science is struggling to establish any thing constant..

regards





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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Christopher Jones on Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:21 pm

my initial reaction is that it is a load of rubbish !!!!

1) the linking of one whole finger to a lobe of the brain is completely spurious and entirely without foundation in either neurology or palmistry/handreading
2) the association of 'learner types' to fingerprints is made with insufficient examination of the concepts involved and without any substantive studies to show such correlations; without even mentioning that handreading experience tells you that this is not what the fingerprints are about and that those 'learning styles' (if you can really call them that) are not at all characteristics of those fingerprint pattern types. Rubbish.
3) associating fingers to 'abilities' is again spurious and unsubstantiated and is about as scientific as ascribing planetary significance to the fingers (but probably less accurate!)
4) using the ATD angle as an indicator here is just irrelevant; this is just another example of people taking well-established dermatoglyphic markers which do have scientific status and credibility (eg in conditions of congenital heart disease and Down's Syndrome) and 'borrowing' that to lend a sense of scientific support to their own theory. There are many examples of scientific papers that do this as a way of justifiying their research, but they end up including something that is irrelevant to their studies. So, for them to do that here just makes me suspicious!

Mary Lai 'designed' this model? 'Made it up' would be a better description. This ranks as equal to some of the worst palmistry books out there !!

Reading on and seeing your comment abouts the ATD angle - not sure that this shows hig/low intelligence and I am not sure that can be separated out as a factor when found in chromosomally challenged people. I have always thought it to be the indicator of (congenital) heart problems as these are highly prevalent in DS and other chromosomal anomalies - but you also find displaced axial triradii in people with inherited heart conditions even without any chromosomal syndromes.

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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:02 pm


Hi Christopher,

Thank you for adding your detailed thoughts & observations.

I think I can understand/agree about most points that you've made - and especially your point 2 (about the concepts behind the 'learning styles') is interesting. Because the terminology used raise questions about whether the researchers have used a validated tools to assess 'learning styles'. Because in Academic science there appear to be no models available which compare 'affective learning' with 'normal learning' and 'effective learning'.

Regarding the aspect of the AtD-angle, earlier in this topic I have mentioned that there are a few studies available which have indicated that there is a correlation between IQ and AtD-angle among in samples of people who do not have mental retardation, see:

- [1996] Quantitative dermatoglyphic analysis in persons with superior intelligence
- [2006] Report on study of multivariate intelligence

However, I think these studies have not shown that the correlations can be used to assess the IQ in an individual.

(By the way, the same is true regarding the long ago established link between AtD-angle and congenital heart defects).


Anyway, thanks again adding your opinion about this topic!!

Thanks!

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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:11 pm

cargoluxter wrote:Question:
Bioinformatics elaborates two types of genes i.e. dominant and recessive genes. With dominant genes our known abilities/characters are described. whereas character and abilities of recessive genes are not expressed. How finger prints aids in the discription of recessive genes?


Kindly
Karan
Martijn
And
Ed Campbell
Please Give Your Thoughts.

Hello cargoluxter,

Sorry for this rather late response - however, I am afraid that I don't understand your question.


PS. I have read your additional comments, but I was confronted with a likewise problem: you are talking about 'blood pressure', 'youga' and that 'every nation is doom to be destroyed when they reach to the extent of a knowledge that is meant for them'.... scratch

Sorry, I don't see how these topics are related to the issue of the DMIT topic... and I am not sure al all that you made a correct assumption regarding how dominant- and recessive genes affect our behavior (I think things are not as simple as you appear to assume).

Maybe it would become helpfull if you are able to explain your initial question a bit more? - But please be aware: your associative examples regarding 'bloodpressure' and 'youga' were so far not helpful at all for me to understand the nature of your first question.

Anyway, I would like to thank you for your efforts so far! Thumbs up!


Last edited by Martijn (admin) on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Kriya Yoga Reference by cargoluxter

Post  Ramann on Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:24 pm

Hello Martijn,

What probaly cargoluxter is trying to relate is something related to Kriya Yoga.Could find reference when the name of Yukteshwar is mentioned.Yuktehswar was the techer of "Paramahansa Yogananda".

Think Cargoluxter may have a point to make .Only thing seems that some validation is required of the reply.

Regards

Thanks!

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Please Explain the secret behind dermatoglyphics fingerprint Analysis

Post  Ras Inno on Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:10 am

Its a great opportunity to come across this website with such rich intellectual debate regarding the fingerprint analysis which at first goal I was very sceptical about the entire process. Well in my own personal opinion I'm not biased hence expressing my observation from a neutral perspective.

My point is I personally had a dematoglyphics analysis something totally new to me and gave it a shot the results from the report are astonishing its hardly a week I had this analysis and still amazed on how it actually pin pointed on my weakness which I vividly remember as I was growing my mother always scold me and how my teachers right from primary to high school always commented on the various strengths and weakness in class and on sport. However I shall not elaborate much in detail but in a nutshell its was quite amazing actually, I have always wanted to have a career in business and entrepreneurship the counsellor who handled the process explained on the various career options which best suited my abilities but in my case I may be part of the few fortunate guys in the field and passionate about.

In conclusion like I said I'm not trying to give a testimonial nor marketing this business I was client and moved on nevertheless I kept having a million questions in my mind if at all this was a trick in a way it that yields such precise reports or if at all they are working on a different principle. I Googled to check if at all it was scam and came across this website which heated in depth discussion regarding this topic and I can be of any assistance to any your scientific research or evaluation regarding this analysis it will be an honour for me.




Martijn (admin) wrote:

Here's another critical 'Silly Beliefs' review of the dermatoglyphic multiple intelligence test (focussed on the website www.mind-tech.in and this Dec 2008 TheJakartaPost article ):

See the post from october 14, 2010:
http://www.sillybeliefs.com/blog016.html#blog016-7

Quote from the report:

"So in conclusion, DMIT is most likely a scam because:

• There is no scientific evidence that it works (1)
• They tell blatant lies in its promotion (2)
• They make misleading claims (3)
• The provide testimonials, not evidence (4)
• They speak in the language of pseudoscience (5)
• Even the affluent and often gullible West hasn't accepted it (6)"



Anyone

PS. In my second post in this topic I have independently presented 3 points of critical evaluation... which sort of relate to the 6 conclusions in the 'Silly Beliefs' report Exclamation


More details about the DMIT-franchisee model are available in this 33 pages powerpoint presentation:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/40155049/D-M-I-T-Concept-PPT-for-Franchisee

NOTICE:
- On page 19 is suggested that DMIT provides a method to assess IQ, EQ, AQ and CQ... but on page they suggest that IQ is an 'incomplete tool'.

thinking ...Intellectually, this DMIT concept looks like a complete chaos... because they are suggesting that the method identifies multiple forms of intelligence, but basically the concepts of AQ (Adversity Intelligence Quotient) and CQ (Coaching Intelligence Quotient) do not related at all to Gardner's model of mulitiple intelligences, etc, etc..

(Here you can read what AQ and CQ really concern: http://www.paradigm21.com/eq/eq.html )


So, basically... it appears to me that DMIT was build with some theoretical 'copy-and-pasting' combined with some statistical 'hocus-pocus' ... scratch

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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Tue Feb 07, 2012 10:21 am


Hello Ras Inno,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts & experience related to DMIT.

Thumb up

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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:31 pm



(In the perspective of my earlier expressed worries about both the validity & marketing techniques used to promote the 'dermatoglyphic intelligence test', the following report from China should not come as a surprise! This new development focused on fraud investigation also indicates that the developers of this test should stop hiding behind their claim that they can not share validity evidence publicly... because they fear to spoil it's commercial potential. For now the validity of this test is 'officially' questioned & an investigation to determine fraud is under way according Chinese authorities!)


http://www.weirdasianews.com/2012/02/13/palmreading-tests-banned-chinese-children/

Palm-Reading Intelligence Tests Banned for Chinese Children!

"The ancient divination arts of fortune telling and palm reading have tenuous holds on modern Chinese life. Although deeply embedded in Chinese traditions, modern leaders have discouraged palm reading, calling it superstition and even have punished those devotees who are determined to practice it.

In Taiyuan, capital of the northern Shanxi province, three kindergartens were forbidden to administer palm-reading tests, which school authorities claimed were effective predictors of intelligence and academic potential.

On the part of many of the parents, there was much encouragement to administer the tests, and many eagerly brought their children to be tested.

Many of these parents did, however, later complain about the high cost of the palm-assessment test (US$190) and questioned some of the methods employed to determine aptitude in the fields of music, mathematics and language.

These complaints triggered education officials to ban the palm-reading tests.

“We have issued a circular to criticize the three kindergartens that offered palm-reading tests for 1,200 RMB [US$190] per person,” said Zhaoxing Ma, Taiyuan’s education bureau chief.

Mr. Ma also stated that an investigation to determine fraud is already under way.

The Shanxi Daomeng Culture Communication Company designs the palm aptitude-assessment tests and stands by its claim that the reading of palms helps “determine the children’s innate intelligence and potential.”

Time will tell on the results of the palm-reading investigation — that is, unless someone can divine the outcome via the palms of the mighty powers that be."



(More about how this test was applied in China: http://www.timeslive.co.za/world/2012/01/31/toddlers-subjected-to-palm-reading-assessments-in-china )

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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  anand_palm on Mon May 21, 2012 3:57 pm

Hello all

I just read artcile in a newspapaer called TIMES of INDIA (it is one of the leading newspaper in india) on this topic. It is about DMIT test and its benefits and it looks like some school has tried this method out. I wanted to post you the link to the article.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-05-15/parenting/31537376_1_fingerprints-mapping-method

Is this a correct approach to do at school level ect..

Thanks
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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Roosi on Thu May 24, 2012 10:29 am

Hi wave

Here is another article about this Chinese test

http://insidechina.onehotspots.com/taiyuan-dermatoglyphics-test-test-the-potential-opportunity-to-collect-money-allegedly-raised-doubts/1476/


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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:23 pm


A video presented at CNN - 'Tbe World Leader in News':

(In this 2011 video they associate using dermatoglylphics for the purpose of 'mind measurement' as: 'ít may be like a horoscope but parents are willing to try'; here one can find more info about Leny Painan: http://www.thesmarterwaytolearn.com/about-us )



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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:13 am


... Just spotted that my analysis (in the first post of this topic) has been used to point out that DMIT is an international scam-network, where the (naive) frenchees are sort of mislead by a couple of smooth talking commerical minds - see the 1st, 2nd and 6th comment at the bottom of this page: http://thumbrulefraud.blogspot.nl/2011/07/thumbrule-dermatoglyphics-is-fraud.html#comment-form


PS. The 6th comment is interesting in the sense that it suggests that some people have become aware that these methods are based on ancient (palmistry) folklore (I guess this sort of explains why the researchers suggest that they can not share their database and results - because they are probably aware that any available database - IF there is any at all - would probably not meet any serious scientific standard).

It appears that Prof. Roger Lin is somehow associated with this facebook page, see: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.163228373750034.42819.163224600417078&type=3 (though I have the impression that Prof. Lin's name + photo has been copied to many associated website without his knowing!???)

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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:27 pm



I have done some additional research on the fundamentals of the Dermatoglyphics Multiple Intelligences Test, you can find my fundamental review about DMIT here:
http://www.handresearch.com/news/dermatoglyphics-multiple-intelligences-test-dmit.htm

Your thoughts are welcome!  Smile 

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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:40 pm


Two new reports (2014) which illustrate why DMIT represents a pseudo-science (read: fake-science) where people get involved with e.g. a motive to 'just making money':

- 'Just making money'
- DMIT: truth of pseudoscience?



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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  dhundhun on Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:21 am

[quote="Martijn (admin)"]
...
...

DERMATOGLYPHICS MULTIPLE INTELLIGENCE TEST
IN A NUT-SHELL:
....
....
/quote]
Thumb up   Thanks!
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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sat Nov 29, 2014 12:07 pm

dhundhun wrote:
Martijn (admin) wrote:
...
...

DERMATOGLYPHICS MULTIPLE INTELLIGENCE TEST
IN A NUT-SHELL:
....
....
/quote]
Thumb up   Thanks!

Thanks!

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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:41 am


Here is more evidence suggesting that DMIT is likely build on unrealistic assumptions:

"Do 5-finger fingerprint distributions in mental retardation differ from the general population?

SHORT ANSWER: No, very likely not.

LONG ANSWER: Among the Top 15 combinations in mental retardation there is not a single combination which is not seen in the Western control groups (Americans, British & Dutch); the percentages for the individual combis also do not vary much from similar the Western control groups."


Source: http://www.handresearch.com/diagnostics/fingerprints-5-fingers-distributions.htm


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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:29 am


Another curious 2014 DMIT study:
http://www.ejournals.ph/index.php?journal=APJMR&page=article&op=view&path%5B%5D=7742&path%5B%5D=8061

The study can be recognized to represent sort of an advanced opinion poll largely focussed on people who sort of got engaged themselves with DMIT; there is no clear process involving an attempt to validate the principles used in DMIT (though the principles itself remain largely unknown till today).

The 'acknowledgements' made by the authors (who e.g "thank the Lord") are also rather unusual for a scientific article, it appears that the full project was created in the spirit of 'friendship'.


PS. The article includes quite a few typical (false) claims that are also found on many DMIT websites, such as (page 24 right column first alinea):

"Since 1823, scientists have discovered that fingerprint patterns and inner intelligence are related to each other."

The truth is that a direct relationship between fingerprints & IQ has never been confirmed at all; for example, in the Minnesota Twin Study (involving 48 MZA pairs) reported a "near zero correlation between intrapair difference and IQ". And correlations between fingerprints & Down syndrome do not contradict this finding, because these can be recognized to represent a manifestation of a specific genetic disorder, and not a manifestation of a direct relationship between fingerprints & IQ... like is suggested by DMIT.

(Even though many DMIT adopters make confusing claims about how DMIT should not get associated with IQ at all, those same people do refer to correlation studies focussed on fingerprints & IQ as an argument to back their opinions about DMIT)

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@Martijn

Post  mihsaaskhan on Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:17 pm

This is quite tricky..
How ever i want to add an important note to this discussion..
All major and minor lines on our palms are the just like the rivers of energy, what happens is that when these dermetographic lines some how runs parallel to them or some how drops in to the major or minor lines the effect the strength of the line.. like its good to have such graphs droping or merging into major lines in the beginning but at the same time an overflowing line is favoured if such lines are in a position as they are shooting out to relax the pressure of energy and reduce the internal heat.. the same happens to fingers.. an arc on the saturn is much better than a loop or whorl .. arc shows rise and gradual decline.. a whorl will keeps a persons career in different orbits.. the subject will tend to be introvert .. may keep leg pulling..
now how to see intelligence in this is not merely looking into the dermtgraphs it must be allied with all major signs.. some sign will have positive effects and some negative.. now its upto the reader who much thoroughly he can calculate the differences..it is good to take palmistery on numerical and statistical terms but for a single trait alot of sign will have to be taken and again at the end the margin of error will be very high.. therefore palmistry is always the mystery of the palm..


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Re: III - Thumbrule DMIT - IQ TEST: Does intelligence correlate with fingerprints & dermatoglyphics?

Post  Martijn (admin) on Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:18 am


Here's another 2015 report featured with a pseudo-scientific attempt trying to promote the concept behind DMIT:
http://csjournals.com/IJCSC/PDF6-2/24.%20Oindri.pdf


NOTICE: Paragraph 7 inside the article suggests that the article below presents valid info; however, the descriptions of most combinations can be recognized to bare the potential to induce the Barnum-effect:
http://www.wofs.com/index.php/miscellaneous-mainmenu-38/443-fortune-a-personality-traits-fromthe-tips-of-your-fingers

(Many of these descriptions sounds quite like they represent some kind of a horoscope reading)

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